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Arafat Has Died

Obituaries Arafat Palestinian Leader 2004

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#21 G1223

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Posted 11 November 2004 - 10:49 PM

Actually the largest group wants to simply stop being attacked. They claim they want to live with thier neighbors.
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#22 GoldenCoal

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Posted 11 November 2004 - 11:06 PM

arethusa, on Nov 11 2004, 07:56 PM, said:

Will someone please educate me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Ok, yes, the Jewish and the Romans didn't get along, because the Jewish were monotheistic, and the Romans wanted them to worship other gods (or at least the emperor, I've heard various things about this). So, eventully there was a revolt (70 AD), and the Romans won, and drove the Jews from where Israel now is all over the world.

Ok, now to after WWII, the UN, because of the Holocaust, decides to give Israel its own country, where their ancestors lived. However, that's where the Palestineans made their home. Thus, the conflict.

Currently, it seems to me that both sides can agree on the territory somewhat, but something keeps both sides from cooperating with each other. One major stumbling block is Jewish settlers who are outside where they should be. If you remember a big deal about a wall, most of the big deal was because it protected those illegal settlements.

Lately Sharon wanted to unilaterally withdraw, but something was wrong there and it was voted down.

That's the GoldenCoal short-notes, which I'm pretty sure are at least 85% accurate.

#23 Ogami

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 05:18 PM

Just a small comment on the news coverage of all this.

Bush nominates the first Hispanic as Attorney General, and the news media reports him as the "architect of Abu Ghraib torture". Then the news media covers Arafat's funeral, not a single word about the death and torture Arafat condoned and himself performed. He's better than Jesus, Gandhi, and Al Gore all rolled into one!

The partisan news media was defeated this election, but that won't stop them from presenting the news through their twisted lenses.

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#24 Godeskian

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 05:20 PM

Ironically enough, I agree with Ogami, at least regarding Yassar Arafat. I know there is a tendency to think well of those who have died, but it seems vastly unfair to ignore the crimes committed under  his aegis

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#25 G1223

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 05:29 PM

I am just glad he is dead. He was a monster given legitimacy by first Europe and then the UN.
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#26 Gefiltefishmon

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 05:57 PM

Well now that one of the biggest blocks to peace has finally died maybe the people of Palestine and Israel can make something that will last longer than 90 days. I think these are the people we should want to see most at peace since the palestinian cause is such a rallying point for terrorism (what's the line; The Saudi's will defend the Palestinians to the last Palestinain suicide bomber?). If these two can play nice it will take a lot of the wind out of the "we have a cause" islam banner which so many cowardly murderers are hiding behind.

Good Riddance to a bad leader.

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#27 Smitty

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Posted 12 November 2004 - 11:46 PM

http://www.boston.co...at_the_monster/

Quote

Arafat the monster
By Jeff Jacoby, Globe Columnist | November 11, 2004
YASSER ARAFAT died at age 75, lying in bed surrounded by familiar faces. He left this world peacefully, unlike the thousands of victims he sent to early graves.
In a better world, the PLO chief would have met his end on a gallows, hanged for mass murder much as the Nazi chiefs were hanged at Nuremberg. In a better world, the French president would not have paid a visit to the bedside of such a monster. In a better world, George Bush would not have said, on hearing the first reports that Arafat had died, "God bless his soul."
God bless his soul? What a grotesque idea! Bless the soul of the man who brought modern terrorism to the world? Who sent his agents to slaughter athletes at the Olympics, blow airliners out of the sky, bomb schools and pizzerias, machine-gun passengers in airline terminals? Who lied, cheated, and stole without compunction? Who inculcated the vilest culture of Jew-hatred since the Third Reich? Human beings might stoop to bless a creature so evil -- as indeed Arafat was blessed, with money, deference, even a Nobel Prize -- but God, I am quite sure, will damn him for eternity.
Arafat always inspired flights of nonsense from Western journalists, and his last two weeks were no exception.
Derek Brown wrote in The Guardian that Arafat's "undisputed courage as a guerrilla leader" was exceeded only "by his extraordinary courage" as a peace negotiator. But it is an odd kind of courage that expresses itself in shooting unarmed victims -- or in signing peace accords and then flagrantly violating their terms.
Another commentator, columnist Gwynne Dyer, asked, "So what did Arafat do right?" The answer: He drew worldwide attention to the Palestinian cause, "for the most part by successful acts of terror." In other words, butchering innocent human beings was "right," since it served an ulterior political motive. No doubt that thought brings daily comfort to all those who were forced to bury a child, parent, or spouse because of Arafat's "successful" terrorism.
Some journalists couldn't wait for Arafat's actual death to begin weeping for him. Take the BBC's Barbara Plett, who burst into tears on the day he was airlifted out of the West Bank. "When the helicopter carrying the frail old man rose above his ruined compound," Plett reported from Ramallah, "I started to cry." Normal people don't weep for brutal murderers, but Plett made it clear that her empathy for Arafat -- whom she praised as "a symbol of Palestinian unity, steadfastness, and resistance" -- was heartfelt:
"I remember well when the Israelis re-conquered the West Bank more than two years ago, how they drove their tanks and bulldozers into Mr. Arafat's headquarters, trapping him in a few rooms, and throwing a military curtain around Ramallah. I remember how Palestinians admired his refusal to flee under fire. They told me: `Our leader is sharing our pain, we are all under the same siege.' And so was I." Such is the state of journalism at the BBC, whose reporters do not seem to have any trouble reporting, dry-eyed, on the plight of Arafat's victims. (That is, when they mention them -- which Plett's teary bon voyage to Arafat did not.)
And what about those victims? Why were they scarcely remembered in this Arafat death watch?
How is it possible to reflect on Arafat's most enduring legacy -- the rise of modern terrorism -- without recalling the legions of men, women, and children whose lives he and his followers destroyed? If Osama bin Laden were on his deathbed, would we neglect to mention all those he murdered on 9/11?
It would take an encyclopedia to catalog all of the evil Arafat committed. But that is no excuse for not trying to recall at least some of it.
Perhaps his signal contribution to the practice of political terror was the introduction of warfare against children. On one black date in May 1974, three PLO terrorists slipped from Lebanon into the northern Israeli town of Ma'alot. They murdered two parents and a child whom they found at home, then seized a local school, taking more than 100 boys and girls hostage and threatening to kill them unless a number of imprisoned terrorists were released. When Israeli troops attempted a rescue, the terrorists exploded hand grenades and opened fire on the students. By the time the horror ended, 25 people were dead; 21 of them were children.
Thirty years later, no one speaks of Ma'alot anymore. The dead children have been forgotten. Everyone knows Arafat's name, but who ever recalls the names of his victims?
So let us recall them: Ilana Turgeman. Rachel Aputa. Yocheved Mazoz. Sarah Ben-Shim'on. Yona Sabag. Yafa Cohen. Shoshana Cohen. Michal Sitrok. Malka Amrosy. Aviva Saada. Yocheved Diyi. Yaakov Levi. Yaakov Kabla. Rina Cohen. Ilana Ne'eman. Sarah Madar. Tamar Dahan. Sarah Soper. Lili Morad. David Madar. Yehudit Madar. The 21 dead children of Ma'alot -- 21 of the thousands of who died at Arafat's command.
As many here are fond of saying, what he said.

-cs™

#28 Delvo

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Posted 13 November 2004 - 12:52 AM

arethusa, on Nov 11 2004, 08:56 PM, said:

I apologize if this is a dumb question (because whoever says there is no such thing as a dumb question obviously hasn't heard me speak in class).  Don't the Israelis want to do away with the Palestinians as much as the Palestinians want to do away with the Israelis?  I'm not overly familiar with Israeli/Palestinian politics because it makes my head spin, but from what I understand, Palestinians were firmly ensconsed in that area before the Israelis came in.  When did the Israelis lose control of their homeland anyway?  Way back in the era of the Roman empires?

Will someone please educate me?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the Israelis wanted the Palestinians gone, there would be no more Palestinians in Israel, and maybe none in the neighboring countries either. They've been holding back while Palestinians have continually been committing and attempting one mass murder of Israelis after another after another after another.

The Israelis didn't exactly "move in" to Palestinian territory either, at least not most of them. Jews, Palestinians, and others had already been living there for many centuries, and only in the 20th century were assigned to countries with borders and governments that didn't necessarily neatly divide ethnic groups from each other. The area that happened to have a lot of Jews in it is now Israel, and lots of Jews moved there from elsewhere about half a century ago. Although the surrounding countries are predominantly Arab, not all Arab groups are the same, and the Palestinians are an Arab group that happened to end up getting chopped into parts of several separate countries, as a minority group in each of them with little or no political influence in any of them. Israel is the country they ended up deciding to target, migrate to and focus their efforts on.

Somehow, the original desire to have their own country because they'd been given a bad deal when the borders were drawn transformed into a crusade to destroy Israel and drive the Jews extinct; they've even rejected substantial offers toward that original goal, proving that land and autonomy are no longer the real goal, just the cover story for violence against Jews. Other countries now claim to be on their side, not because of sympathy with the Palestinians (whom they had actually been much harsher with than Israel, and whom they still won't take in or grant land to themselves), but because of the unifying force of anti-Semitism in the Muslim world. Having openly declared their intention to erase Israel, they've tried it a few times, and lost those wars.

Facing constant terrorism and occasional invasion attempts, there presumably are a bunch of Israelis who've gotten quite pissed off, and just don't care anymore about supposed land infringements or possible excessiveness and carelessness of Israeli strikes on terrorists in Palestinian areas... but no, "wanting to do away with the Palestinians" is not a real force in Israeli politics.

#29 Norville

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Posted 13 November 2004 - 01:14 AM

Steven Q said:

I know there is a tendency to think well of those who have died, but it seems vastly unfair to ignore the crimes committed under his aegis.

I don't see why we need to speak well of a terrorist leader, simply because he died. While I'd prefer to feel kindness of some sort toward most people, I didn't feel much for Arafat. He had the tenacity of a cockroach, though (which I said in another thread), and it comes as something of a shock to me that he actually finally died... for a long time there, I was thinking that, surely, he'd survive *everything*, simply because he had before. (I suspected that he'd even survive nuclear war, yep...)
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