Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Egypt to Test Tutankhamun Mummy for Cause of Death

Science Archaeology Egypt Tutankhamun

  • Please log in to reply
79 replies to this topic

#41 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 18 November 2004 - 10:46 PM

It is just amazing how a member of the moderating staff just drops a whopper of an offensive generalization into the thread against an entire profession.  

Many archaeologists never even encounter a body during their entire career in archaeology.  Instead they are happy to pick through the leftover garbage from the lives of common people.  Most archaeologists don’t even want to hit a burial during their digs because they have to call the police and file tons of paperwork.  On top of that they get into all types of interesting games to deal with the site.  We have at least one road in NYS where the highway splits in half because a burial was found in the center of the construction site.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#42 Shalamar

Shalamar

    Last Star to the Left and Straight on till Morning

  • Forever Missed
  • 17,644 posts

Posted 18 November 2004 - 11:25 PM

CJ,  - Steven said specifically that "I consider"..a personal pov, an opinion. - Not a statement of overall generalization.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

Posted Image

#43 jon3831

jon3831

    Iolanthe's evil conservative twin

  • Islander
  • 2,601 posts

Posted 18 November 2004 - 11:42 PM

^Still insulting to the vast majority of archaeologists who, like CJ said, don't want to disturb burial grounds.

Put another way, if someone said that they "consider the vast majority of lawyers to be slimy unethical ambulance chasers," would that be any less a generalization or offensive?

I'm sorry, Shal... Steven insulted an entire profession, a profession which has increased our understanding of where we as humans come from, as well as personally insulting several members of this very board.

At the very least, he owes these members an apology.
"The issue is not war and peace, rather, how best to   preserve our freedom."
                    --General Russell E. Dougherty, USAF

WWCELeMD?

#44 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 18 November 2004 - 11:48 PM

Oh come on Shal.  

Anything that comes out of anyone’s mouth is an opinion here.  By your logic if someone adds I consider than anything becomes an opinion and thus legitimate.  You are just arguing semantics to cover a violation of the forum policies by another moderator.  This is the basic problem with moderation on EI and it is getting worse.  The rules are not enforced or they are slacked to allow certain people to get away with violating them.  And before anyone jumps in and claims this is an issue of political spectrum I say it is not.  This is an issue of the rules just being slack right across the spectrum and slackened even more if you happen to be the right person.    

And I swear jump on me all you want but this is something that needs to be dragged into the open for discussion even if the moderating team is kicking and screaming.  OT is failing from what it should be and what it once was because the moderators and the administrators are not doing their jobs and enforcing the rules they created.  It is High Noon and the Sheriff is notably absent while the forum falls apart.  It gets all the worse when the moderators start to break the forum guidelines and I will not remain silent any longer on this topic.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#45 Josh

Josh

    He stares...

  • Islander
  • 13,774 posts

Posted 18 November 2004 - 11:52 PM

^

I have to agree with Jon and CJ here. If the moderators are going to work on stamping out generalizations in OT (and they haven't been doing a very good job at it so far), they need to start by not using them themselves.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#46 eryn

eryn

    So, a baby seal walks into a club...

  • Islander
  • 1,638 posts

Posted 18 November 2004 - 11:54 PM

^^What Jon, Josh, and CJ said.
If you watch the news and don't like it, then this is your counter program to the news.
Jon Stewart

My Flickr

#47 Norville

Norville
  • Islander
  • 4,502 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 12:32 AM

jon3831 said:

Steven insulted an entire profession, a profession which has increased our understanding of where we as humans come from, as well as personally insulting several members of this very board.

At the very least, he owes these members an apology.

Much as I don't want to hamper your efforts, because I do frequently have a problem with moderation in OT, could I say that I don't feel Steven owes me an apology? I didn't feel offended, because I had to struggle a bit with "Is this grave robbery?" in the archaeological study that I did, though the scientific fascination overcame the guilt.

Steven can feel how he likes; I've heard it before -- and from, as I said, an actual Amerind, so I think I can take it from him. ;)
"The dew has fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning."
- Marvin the Paranoid Android, "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/

#48 jon3831

jon3831

    Iolanthe's evil conservative twin

  • Islander
  • 2,601 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 12:57 AM

Norville, on Nov 18 2004, 10:32 PM, said:

could I say that I don't feel Steven owes me an apology?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Such is your right, Norville. Note I said "several members," and if you don't wish to be included in that, then such is your right.

Quote

I've heard it before -- and from, as I said, an actual Amerind,

On the same side of the coin, there are disreputable "archaeologists", just as there are disreputable members of every profession. My quarrel is that it's blatantly unfair to label "the vast majority" as grave-robbers when this is simply not the case.

Besides, wouldn't it be easier to label grave-robbers posing as archaeologists as grave-robbers and leave reputable archaeologists out of it?
"The issue is not war and peace, rather, how best to   preserve our freedom."
                    --General Russell E. Dougherty, USAF

WWCELeMD?

#49 Shalamar

Shalamar

    Last Star to the Left and Straight on till Morning

  • Forever Missed
  • 17,644 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 01:09 AM

Just so all the people that have posted recently know - there has been a thread started in the SL to discuss this.

I do want to say that I feel that if people can not hold and express opinions that others disagree with then we are in deep trouble here on this board.

and NO I do not feel that I am argueing semantics here, and especially not because the person in question happens to be a moderator.. A member expressed a personal opinion - not made a generalization. (IMO)
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

Posted Image

#50 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 01:22 AM

Since this is a matter directly concerning the behavior of a moderator and how the moderators have been carrying out policy I think this topic should be openly discussed rather than hidden in the Staff Lounge.  The existence of this discussion is enough to call into question the ability of the moderators and administrators to discuss the actions of one of their own without oversight from a larger portion of the community.  Out of courtesy to the Administrators and moderating team, I'm putting you on notice that if we don't see a discussion on this with the team participating openly, we're going to start one...

Quote

Shal: I do want to say that I feel that if people can not hold and express opinions that others disagree with then we are in deep trouble here on this board.
There is a difference between holding an opinion and stating it in an offensive manner.  
“I consider the majority of liberals to be spineless weenies who are unpatriotic slobs and are mindless twits.”**
“I consider the majority of conservatives to be jackbooted Nazi thugs who are religious fanatics.”**

Are valid opinions to with the way you are arguing semantics.  Care to defend those two?  

Quote

Shal: A member expressed a personal opinion - not made a generalization. (IMO)
And moving on before we get bogged down arguing the semantics of Steven's post there is the bigger question of how the moderating team has been handling OT by not enforcing forum rules.

** These are only examples and I do not believe them.

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 19 November 2004 - 01:25 AM.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#51 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 01:56 AM

I have edited out the post. Consider my 'offensive generalisation' removed from the thread.

Edited because my post was combative, rather than helpfull.

Edited by Steven_Q, 19 November 2004 - 02:01 AM.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#52 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:05 AM

Consider that matter dropped then.  

That said there is still the wider issue of the behavior of the moderating team when it comes to enforcing the regulations that they have in place for OT and how evenly they enforce them.  This isn’t about the personality of the moderators but rather lack of direction in their actions.  

I suggest the opening of a thread in AQG.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#53 Josh

Josh

    He stares...

  • Islander
  • 13,774 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:07 AM

^

Seconded. OT has been a mess for quite some time now and I'm concerned that the moderators are not sure how strongly to enforce their rules. This has become a forum for rhetoric, not debate. I'm quite sure that's not why it was created.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#54 eryn

eryn

    So, a baby seal walks into a club...

  • Islander
  • 1,638 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:10 AM

What Josh and CJ said.

Thank you for the edit Steven_Q
If you watch the news and don't like it, then this is your counter program to the news.
Jon Stewart

My Flickr

#55 jon3831

jon3831

    Iolanthe's evil conservative twin

  • Islander
  • 2,601 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:11 AM

Thank you, Steven. I consider the matter closed as well.

And, I agree with CJ. There's a definate reason for discussion of the wider issue in AQG.

OT was created to be a place of scholarly debate, a place where the rules were evenly enforced, not made more lax or thrown out the window. There is a larger issue at work here, and I think it behooves us all to further discuss the issue.
"The issue is not war and peace, rather, how best to   preserve our freedom."
                    --General Russell E. Dougherty, USAF

WWCELeMD?

#56 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:14 AM

I'll be honest, i'm amazed at the reaction to this. I stated my opinion about a number of Archeologists. At no point did i declaim the entire field, only those that dig up bones, disinter bodies, and desecrate tombs.

What's more it was posted as an opinion only, of a specific subset of archeologists whose practices I abhor, and I thought up untill know, that I was allowed to still hold an opinion regarding things like that.

If anyone wants to start up a thread in AGQ, I will participate.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#57 Josh

Josh

    He stares...

  • Islander
  • 13,774 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:33 AM

^

Dude, you generalized. I respect you a lot and consider you a friend but calling the "vast majority" of archaeologists graverobbers is a generalization. There is a reason why people protested it because you did EXACTLY what a lot of people in this forum did and it seriously needs to stop.
"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#58 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:34 AM

Thread is opened for all who want to post there:
AQG: Performance of Administrators and Moderating Team in Regards to OT

Quote

Steven Q: What's more it was posted as an opinion only, of a specific subset of archeologists whose practices I abhor, and I thought up untill know, that I was allowed to still hold an opinion regarding things like that.

“I consider a certain set of archaeologists whose _______ practices when it comes to tombs I find to be abhorrent.”  Everyone sometimes selects wording that are too edgy and thank you for editing it.  That doesn’t mean you should remove it but rather that you should communicate your opinions more clearly in a manner that is less offensive.

Quote

Steven: If anyone wants to start up a thread in AGQ, I will participate.
I am opening a thread in AQG to discuss the wider matter of moderating in OT but consider this matter closed here.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#59 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:36 AM

I've read your thread, and as soon as I can decide what I want to say in it, I shall post in that thread.

#60 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 19 November 2004 - 02:40 AM

Josh, on Nov 19 2004, 08:33 AM, said:

^

Dude, you generalized. I respect you a lot and consider you a friend but calling the "vast majority" of archaeologists graverobbers is a generalization. There is a reason why people protested it because you did EXACTLY what a lot of people in this forum did and it seriously needs to stop.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I shall make a point of being far more specific in the future then.

It was an educational experience on posting here if nothing else. [to clarify before someone jumps me over this statement, I merely mean that i have learnt something about how my definition of certain words differs from those at exisle. nothing more.]

Edited by Steven_Q, 19 November 2004 - 02:43 AM.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Science, Archaeology, Egypt, Tutankhamun

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users