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This Is John Galt Speaking.

OT Member John Galt Philosophy

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#1 John Galt

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 09:10 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is John Galt speaking.

I have started this thread as a statement in answer to several feeble cries of outrage in another thread.  Perhaps the most venomous of those posters was Digital Man who thinks he completely understands me, my mind, and that which I uphold.

He could not be more wrong. But he asked, and I will explain.  This is what you will read.

I live by the concept that I, as a human being, must do what is needed to survive since the alternative is my death.  Dead, I would not feel, move, breathe, or enjoy the greatest gift of the universe: existence.  Existence, however, owes me nothing.  It does not provide for my continuance, and in fact will be quick to stop it should I ever let my guard down.

I exist. I know I exist, and that’s all the proof  I need of reality around me.  I know things exist and that they will always exist until they are broken down into their constituent components to be rebuilt again as something else.  A chair is a chair.  A stone is a stone.

*If nothing exists, there can be no consciousness: a consciousness with nothing to be conscious of is a contradiction in terms. A consciousness conscious of nothing but itself is a contradiction in terms: before it could identify itself as consciousness, it had to be conscious of something. If that which you claim to perceive does not exist, what you possess is not consciousness.

A=A. There is no deviation from this law.

As such, human beings exist, and furthermore possess certain properties.

We are transitory.  Without sustenance , we die.  Without the ability to acquire this sustenance, we die.  Without the ability to possess this sustenance we die.

Without life, liberty, or property, we die.

We think. We reason.  We examine reality around us in order to assess the things we need in order to live.

We must know the difference between food that is nourishing, and food that will poison us.  We must exercise our rationality in order to survive. Our reason ensures our survival so long as it is applied correctly.

I have the absolute right to survive.  I have the absolute right to take the appropriate steps to ensure my survival.  I have the absolute right to protect what I acquire in order to ensure my survival, so long as I deny no one else their rights.  This is morality.

What upholds life is moral.  The basis of morality is the existence of the human being. Nothing more.

Whatever robs me of my rights is immoral.  To kill, restrict, or rob for any reason other than the protection of these rights is immoral.  To deny another human being his or her rights is immoral.

You feel guilty when you have one more dollar in your pocket than the man you meet on the street because you’ve been taught to feel shame.  You feel desire when that same man has one more dollar than you. You have been taught that no one should have more than the other.

Never place yourself in debt to someone else.  I promise, they will use it against you.  You will pay a price greater than what you gave.

All interactions between human beings should be on a value-for-value basis.  Whether the trade is equitable is up to you, but remember: imbalance will always come back to haunt you when you least expect it.

Value-for-value is the only rational intercourse between minds. Anything else is immoral.  Interact with those who have something to offer you, whether it be money, knowledge, love, protection, intellectual stimulation…whatever you desire and is valuable to you, or whatever you need to survive.

Never give when asked unless given something of value in return.  Rarely will the stranger give anything in return; those people are vultures and are hovering around for the rest of the carcass.

Beware those who offer you something spiritual in return.  They offer something that can’t be demonstrated or guaranteed.  Even when they claim to speak the truth, they cannot make good the guarantees they offer.  Every time their claims are refuted, they fall back on those they have suckered for witness.  But they will take your money to support their atrocious habits; few of them know how to earn an honest living.

Did you ever wonder why “non-profit” ventures are non-profit?  It’s because they are guaranteed to lose money and never solve the problem for which they are intended.  The rational ones who invest money expect a return; the foolish throw their money in holes like these.  Industrialists donate money to “worthy causes” as a tax write off…nothing more.

*You who prattle that morality is social and that man would need no morality on a desert island. It is on a desert island that he would need it most. Let him try to claim, when there are no victims to pay for it, that a rock is a house, that sand is clothing, that food will drop into his mouth without cause or effort, that he will collect a harvest tomorrow by devouring his stock seed today—and reality will wipe him out, as he deserves; reality will show him that life is a value to be bought and that thinking is the only coin noble enough to buy it.

If you work for another human being and get nothing in return, you are a slave.  If you like being a slave, then don’t complain when the chains get tighter and tighter.

Do you need a commandment to make your life meaningful?  Here it is then: Thou shalt think.

Now let’s think: are you under the impression I owe you something?  Do you think you have some claim to what is mine by virtue of being alive?  Let me ask you a question, and I challenge you to think about it: who told you that?  Was it the person who promised to broker the deal…to take by force what I earned and transform it into a brave new world where you can possess what you wish simply because you’re alive?

Let me tell you something, and you can take this to the bank: I owe you nothing.  That includes you, Digital Man and you Nonny.  Until you can approach me on a value-for-value basis, I have nothing for you. If you approach me with an empty hand and wanting something, I won’t even acknowledge you exist.

You are part of the problem…the zero that can never be filled because your philosophies are just as empty as your hands.  You cannot be filled.  

Remember, anything plus zero is still just anything. You've gained nothing.

I’m not filling your void.  I don’t care if you exist or not…live or die, starve or grow fat.  I will only give you what you offer in return. You are not my responsibility.

I’ll give you one thing, not out of charity, but out of pity because you’ve been robbed and you don’t have the spine to stand up and fight off the robber:

Turn the computer off…the TV off…whatever you use for distraction.  Just for a little while.  Sit down and think.  Decide what exists and make damned sure you have evidence it exists.  What doesn’t serve you…throw it away and don’t look back because it isn’t there.

Look around at what you have.  Look at your possessions…your bank account.  Look at your education.  How much of it did you earn with your mind and your hands, and how much of it did you collect at the expense of someone else?  If they gave it to you, then that was their choice, but if it was forced from then, you are a robber.  Give it back to them.

Decide what you want, and then decide how to get it.  If your path involves taking something from someone else, then you are immoral.  Do not give unless you get something in return.  You decide the equity of the exchange.

Never let anyone have power over your mind and your possessions.  If they force you at gunpoint, then they’ve lost in the long run because they have no real power over you then what you give.  Never go along with it willingly.  Always fight.  Be smarter then them.

Never force anything from anyone.  They have a right to what they’ve earned just as you do.  Never initiate force, but never hesitate to defend what is yours with every means at your disposal.  Anyone who initiates force against you has declared they don’t believe in your rights.

And if you’re thrown in jail for defending what is yours, do exactly what you are forced to do and nothing more.  Do what is necessary for your survival and nothing more.  If you comply, you’ve given in and now you’re a slave in mind and well as body.

Don’t take what isn’t yours.  Don’t force others to give up their own rights.  Don’t follow through on an irrational thought or desire.  Don’t sh*t in your own nest.  Think before you act and hold on to what you have.

*In the name of the best within you, do not sacrifice this world to those who are its worst. In the name of the values that keep you alive, do not let your vision of man be distorted by the ugly, the cowardly, the mindless in those who have never achieved. Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads.

Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark, in the hopeless swamps of the approximate, the not-quite, the not-yet, the not-at-all.


Those of you who live in the United States have a great advantage.  Those of you who don’t…do what ever it takes to get here.  We have everything.  We have more than enough.  You don’t need a handout here.  You need to think and you need to work, and anything is possible.

Be the voice of integrity and a rally-point for those who seek honesty.

But if you read this and decide: “John Galt is a fool” then you’ve already been bought and sold.  I want nothing to do with you.  If you decide “John Galt is a monster” then you are correct…I’m the Destroyer.

And when you’ve decided you’ve had enough of the bastards who rob you, cheat you, enslave you and tell you it’s for the good of your fellow humankind, find a place that is holy to you and tell yourself what I told myself long ago: "I swear—by my life and my love of it—that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.”

Voluntarily edited to bring this post in line with board policies.

Edited again for a huge typo.  Thank you Broph.

*Indicates a direct quote from AR, because she could say it better than I could.

Edited by John Galt, 29 November 2004 - 03:22 PM.

"Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good."            —Ayn Rand

#2 Chipper

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 09:39 PM

Hmmm.

That was long.  I admit, I skimmed most of it because I don't have time now.  But the scary part is, it made sense!! :eek2:

I cannot say that doing whatever it takes to get into the US, however, is what life should be about.  Because we don't have everything.  We lack tolerance in many places.  We don't have enough (money) for education, for instance.  People need handouts everywhere they go; handouts of money, if not food.  But our poor population would say otherwise.  And not everything is possible if one works, because it just isn't.


But it's just that paragraph that I'm more or less griping on.  Overall, deep.  And I'm not going to get into existence, because I'm still trying to figure that one out.  Oh well.

And no, you aren't a fool or a monster.  You're just an ExIsle.

Can't get any worse than that, now can it? ;) :p
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

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#3 GoldenCoal

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 09:40 PM

John Galt, on Nov 28 2004, 08:10 PM, said:

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is John Galt speaking.
I have the absolute right to survive.  I have the absolute right to take the appropriate steps to ensure my survival.  I have the absolute right to protect what I acquire in order to ensure my survival, so long as I deny no one else their rights.  This is morality.

What upholds life is moral.  The basis of morality is the existence of the human being. Nothing more.

Whatever robs me of my rights is immoral.  To kill, restrict, or rob for any reason other than the protection of these rights is immoral.  To deny another human being his or her rights is immoral.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That was an interesting read. I have one question, though, what happens when if you don't deny someone else their rights, then you will die, and if you do, then you will live. Would you then be in the midst of a situation where whatever you do you are immoral, or is there some way out of that?

By the way, what does it mean that you're "the Destroyer?" Where did this philosophy come from?

Edited by GoldenCoal, 28 November 2004 - 09:45 PM.


#4 TechHarper

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 09:55 PM

GoldenCoal, on Nov 28 2004, 06:40 PM, said:

John Galt, on Nov 28 2004, 08:10 PM, said:

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is John Galt speaking.
I have the absolute right to survive.  I have the absolute right to take the appropriate steps to ensure my survival.  I have the absolute right to protect what I acquire in order to ensure my survival, so long as I deny no one else their rights.  This is morality.

What upholds life is moral.  The basis of morality is the existence of the human being. Nothing more.

Whatever robs me of my rights is immoral.  To kill, restrict, or rob for any reason other than the protection of these rights is immoral.  To deny another human being his or her rights is immoral.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That was an interesting read. I have one question, though, what happens when if you don't deny someone else their rights, then you will die, and if you do, then you will live. Would you then be in the midst of a situation where whatever you do you are immoral, or is there some way out of that?

By the way, what does it mean that you're "the Destroyer?" Where did this philosophy come from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I haven't read the book in a while, but I'm pretty sure he took it almost word for word out of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.  I remember that there was an exceptionally long passage in which John Galt, one of the protagonists of the story, took over the radio waves and spelled out his philosophy in great depth.
"When the government fears the people, there is liberty; when the people fear the government, there is tyranny. - Thomas Jefferson
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#5 JchaosRS

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 09:56 PM

I know the basis of your ideals and your philosophies. And I don’t think you understand it is you claim to believe. I had a very long post to respond to everything that you said. But I will leave my response out for now. Because I don’t have the interest or the energy to go through what posting it will entail me to go through.

Anyway.
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#6 DWF

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:14 PM

Sounds very Nietzschean to me.
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#7 nutmeg

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:34 PM

Yes, it is a quote (without attribution) from a character named Jonn Galt in Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. What I remember most from reading that book years ago was that the other characters ran around asking "Who is John Galt" a lot. I also remember putting the book down and thinking "I don't care."



shrug,
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#8 GoldenCoal

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:34 PM

TechHarper, on Nov 28 2004, 08:55 PM, said:

I haven't read the book in a while, but I'm pretty sure he took it almost word for word out of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.  I remember that there was an exceptionally long passage in which John Galt, one of the protagonists of the story, took over the radio waves and spelled out his philosophy in great depth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, I thought it sounded Ayn Rand-ish.

#9 Shalamar

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:41 PM

Long slow grin - yes it does, 'cause thats becauase Ayn Rand's philosophies is part of the core philosophies of the Neitzscheans...

and what Mr. Gault has posted doesn't make it any less valid if it's from Atlas Shrugged - but Mr. Gault  - it's been a LONG time since I read Atlas Shrugged - if it is from the book would you be so kind as to acknowledge that in your post
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

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#10 MuseZack

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:42 PM

Digital Man, you sly dog, you got him monologuing!   :lol:
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
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#11 John Galt

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:46 PM

Shalamar, on Nov 28 2004, 09:41 PM, said:

Long slow grin - yes it does, 'cause thats becauase Ayn Rand's philosophies is part of the core philosophies of the Neitzscheans...

and what Mr. Gault has posted doesn't make it any less valid if it's from Atlas Shrugged - but Mr. Gault  - it's been a LONG time since I read Atlas Shrugged - if it is from the book would you be so kind as to acknowledge that in your post

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No, it is not word-for-word.  Paraphrase, yes.  Two paragraphs written by her more eloquently than I could, yes.  Buy the book and check it out.  While you're at it, read the book as well.
"Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good."            —Ayn Rand

#12 Shalamar

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:47 PM

Oh I never said I didn't own a copy, just that I hadn't read it in ages.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

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#13 NeuralClone

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:54 PM

MuseZack, on Nov 28 2004, 10:42 PM, said:

Digital Man, you sly dog, you got him monologuing!   :lol:
LOL! :lol:
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#14 John Galt

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 10:56 PM

nutmeg, on Nov 28 2004, 09:34 PM, said:

Yes, it is a quote (without attribution) from a character named Jonn Galt in Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. What I remember most from reading that book years ago was that the other characters ran around asking "Who is John Galt" a lot. I also remember putting the book down and thinking "I don't care."



shrug,
nutmeg

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Please prove this claim or withdraw it.
"Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good."            —Ayn Rand

#15 DWF

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:00 PM

Carl, on Nov 28 2004, 10:54 PM, said:

MuseZack, on Nov 28 2004, 10:42 PM, said:

Digital Man, you sly dog, you got him monologuing!   :lol:
LOL! :lol:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah it's pretty incredible isn't? ;)
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#16 John Galt

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:15 PM

Shalamar, on Nov 28 2004, 09:47 PM, said:

Oh I never said I didn't own a copy, just that I hadn't read it in ages.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Then you can compare it easily and designate TechHarper and netmeg's statements to be libelous.
"Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good."            —Ayn Rand

#17 waterpanther

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:21 PM

Oh, good grief.  I continue to be amazed by people who think Ayn Rand was a philosopher and not just a bad novelist.

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#18 John Galt

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:25 PM

waterpanther, on Nov 28 2004, 10:21 PM, said:

Oh, good grief.  I continue to be amazed by people who think Ayn Rand was a philosopher and not just a bad novelist.

Waterpanther

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And I'm constantly amazed by people who, when faced with cold logic, respond with the nebulous "X sucks" retort.

I'm sure you can do better than that...if you only try.
"Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good."            —Ayn Rand

#19 Norville

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:29 PM

Honestly, I've never had the strength to tackle one of Ayn Rand's huge screeds that pass as novels. If we've got a guy who posts as her character John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, I don't think I have the strength to go on reading his posts, either. Either that, or I may actually be arsed to get around to reading AS, but I suspect not -- I've avoided it for 18 years of working with books; I can probably avoid it for another 18 years! :lol:

(I should add that, no, the Nietzscheans in "Andromeda" didn't inspire me to endure Rand, either, and I know just enough Nietzsche to last me a while. ;) )

Edited by Norville, 28 November 2004 - 11:33 PM.

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#20 DWF

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Posted 28 November 2004 - 11:33 PM

I'm calling dibs on the first doughnut post, I predict that it'll start on the next page, any takers?  :whistle:
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido



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