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Archaeology: Science or Grave Robbing?

Science Archaeology Grave Robbing

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Poll: Are Archaeologists Grave Robbers? Or scientists? (46 member(s) have cast votes)

Are Archaeologists Grave Robbers? Or scientists?

  1. Grave Robbers (8 votes [17.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  2. Scientists (38 votes [82.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 82.61%

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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 04:08 PM

I made this poll because of the other thread in OT about Tutankhamun, and the thread in AQG about administrators and Mods.

So, I put the question to you, my fellow Exislers. What say you? Are Archaeologists scientists? Or are they grave robbers?

Now, to be fair....

here is a link that CJ provided concerning Archaeological ethics: http://www.saa.org/a...SAA/ethics.html
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#2 Godeskian

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 04:13 PM

You know where I stand on this matter.

I wouldn't want to generalise and get asked to edit again.

#3 Kosh

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 04:21 PM

4 to zip at this point.
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#4 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 05:02 PM

Steven_Q, on Nov 29 2004, 04:13 PM, said:

You know where I stand on this matter.

I wouldn't want to generalise and get asked to edit again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yes I know. I still don't think you should've had to edit.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#5 QueenTiye

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 05:06 PM

I think the poll is misleading and I'm unable to answer it.

I don't think archeaology as a science HAS to be grave robbery, but I think it can be, and I think current practice is often grave robbery, but not always.

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#6 WildChildCait

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 05:07 PM

Neither do i.

and for the record, I voted grave robbing. That is of course, if there are graves involved. Otherwise i'm  ok with it.
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#7 StarDust

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 05:33 PM

I said scientists, since it was either or, but I don't think the poll reflects reality.

There is no doubt that, in the past, some very bad stuff happened.  I believe that today it's about science, although there may be those with questionable motives.

The Egyptians were having problems with grave robbers in their time, so it's not like they didn't know what could happen. If you leave your body behind, you're willing taking the risk of whatever happens. And considering what is done to bodies, back then and today, before they get 'buried', I don't see the big deal anyways.  The are totally taken apart and carved up and all sorts of things. Whether it was the egyptian process or the modern autopsy/embalming process.   So what's the big deal?  It was okay to carve them up and remove all their organs and do all sorts of stuff, but it's bad to run it through an MRI?  Doesn't make sense.

As far as grave robbing, I have a problem with graves all together.  I believe everyone should be cremated for multiple reasons.  I certainly will be cremated so that I don't have to worry about what happens to my body down the road.  I also believe it's a sin, in an already over populated world, to use so much land for graves.  Plus, there are the logistics of it.  It's become routine today to have to move cemetaries because they are suddenly in the middle of a highway or some expansion.  Or you have this little cemetary in the middle of sky scrappers that no one takes care of anymore.  You have no idea what will happen in 50 years, never mind hundreds of years.  It's all very irrational.  It harkens back to a day when there was more space and things changed slower, and even then, we keep stumbling across those bodies as well.

#8 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 29 November 2004 - 07:01 PM

StarDust, on Nov 29 2004, 05:33 PM, said:

I have a problem with graves all together.  I believe everyone should be cremated for multiple reasons.  I certainly will be cremated so that I don't have to worry about what happens to my body down the road.  I also believe it's a sin, in an already over populated world, to use so much land for graves.  Plus, there are the logistics of it.  It's become routine today to have to move cemetaries because they are suddenly in the middle of a highway or some expansion.  Or you have this little cemetary in the middle of sky scrappers that no one takes care of anymore.  You have no idea what will happen in 50 years, never mind hundreds of years.  It's all very irrational.  It harkens back to a day when there was more space and things changed slower, and even then, we keep stumbling across those bodies as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hmmm. Interesting notion. Will there come a day when we HAVE to be cremated? Because there is no more land available for graves? Don't know.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#9 JchaosRS

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 01:06 AM

first off, why isnt there an option for BOTH.

Second: I find that I am in complete aggreance with Stardust. Except, I see more solutions past everyone being cremated.

Third:

Quote

I made this poll because of the other thread in OT about Tutankhamun, and the thread in AQG about administrators and Mods.
---------------------------------------------------
I wouldn't want to generalise and get asked to edit again.

I have no Idea what you guys are talking about, but if it has to do with the AQG, then I know that I definatly dont want to know.

Edited by Rommies Slave, 30 November 2004 - 01:09 AM.

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#10 eryn

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 01:59 AM

I voted Scientists.
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#11 Kevin Street

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 02:14 AM

I have to go with scientists, though I can see how other cultures might have a different point of view. Still, in our culture archeology is a science, and the people who practice it are just trying to expand the sphere of human knowledge, which is a purer and more worthwhile purpose than simple stealing. Imo.

Some day scientists might dig up my decayed carcass and put it on display in a museum for our three-eyed, four-armed descendents to gawk at on overpriced tours, but that doesn't bother me much. Imo, it would just be a body, a dead thing, and not a person - not me.

All of the above imo, of course.
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#12 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 09:24 AM

Well, looks like Scientists pretty much have it. 21 to 7.

Guess I'll have to put in my will that when I die all my possessions buried with me at the time of death belong to me...I'm not a steward for any wanna be Indian Jones to dig up.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#13 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 09:32 AM

Rommies Slave, on Nov 30 2004, 01:06 AM, said:

first off, why isnt there an option for BOTH.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Because given the nature of the discussion, forced editing of posts, ect I felt putting in the option of "Grave Robbing Scientists" would've clouded the issue. Perhaps I was wrong.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#14 prolog

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:04 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Nov 30 2004, 02:24 PM, said:

Well, looks like Scientists pretty much have it. 21 to 7.

Guess I'll have to put in my will that when I die all my possessions buried with me at the time of death belong to me...I'm not a steward for any wanna be Indian Jones to dig up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You'll be dead; it's not like you can protest. ;)

#15 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:27 AM

prolog, on Nov 30 2004, 10:04 AM, said:

You'll be dead; it's not like you can protest. ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hence the will...That way my descendants will be able to sue the pants off of the Lara Croft/ Indiana Jones wanna be, and whicheve university they work for. Not to mention, if there is an afterlife...suffice it to say, whomever descrates my resting place will find the rest of their lives very haunting indeed.  ;)
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#16 Themis

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:32 AM

StarDust, on Nov 29 2004, 10:33 PM, said:

And considering what is done to bodies, back then and today, before they get 'buried', I don't see the big deal anyways.  The are totally taken apart and carved up and all sorts of things. Whether it was the egyptian process or the modern autopsy/embalming process.   So what's the big deal?  It was okay to carve them up and remove all their organs and do all sorts of stuff, but it's bad to run it through an MRI?  Doesn't make sense.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Preach it!!   Add organ donation to that list.

I plan to leave my body to science with cremation to follow.  I'll be through with it.

I have a problem with funerals in general - the expense of them.  Vaults, thousand-dollar coffins, embalming  - the buried body will still decompose eventually.  I know someone who definitely couldn't afford it who spent hundreds - maybe thousands - to fill his grandmother's coffin with roses.  Like she'd know.  As therapy for him, maybe it was cheaper than an analyst... I'm for plain wood coffins which will decompose with the body.  The service, the ritual, the wake, the reception - those things are to comfort he living.  If you believe the soul is headed elsewhere, that's fine.  It'll get there without somebody spending a zillion dollars on a funeral, and even without a religious official praying over it if that doesn't work out.  It was on its way at the moment of death, not several days later at the official burial.

Modern archaelogists treat remains with respect - if they didn't, the remains would not be in decent condition to be examined.  Given overall cultural sensitivity, they also treat remains with respect for that reason.  I have no problem with that.

If you want to ensure that your possessions will stay with you, have them cremated with you.  

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#17 tallulah

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 10:43 AM

Chaddee, on Nov 29 2004, 05:07 PM, said:

Neither do i.

and for the record, I voted grave robbing. That is of course, if there are graves involved. Otherwise i'm  ok with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I won't vote because not all archaeologists do their research and dig at gravesites.  I have volunteered on 6 digs now and none had anything to do with graves--mostly city planning, looking for a port facility, excavaing the town dump (where you find a lot of broken pottery, being the dump and all) or houses.

For the record, though, I don't think the uproar that followed against Steven's remark was justified.  Just my opinion, of course.

T. :ninjadeath:

Edited by tallulah, 30 November 2004 - 10:45 AM.

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#18 Delvo

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 11:50 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Nov 30 2004, 10:27 AM, said:

my descendants will be able to sue the pants off of the Lara Croft/ Indiana Jones wanna be, and whicheve university they work for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So it's OK if the person in question is not an adventure-story character wannabe. Then what's the big deal, since there practically are none of those anyway?

#19 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 12:04 PM

Delvo, on Nov 30 2004, 11:50 AM, said:

So it's OK if the person in question is not an adventure-story character wannabe. Then what's the big deal, since there practically are none of those anyway?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I did NOT say that. I used those references because those were the ones that came to my mind when I thought of archaeologists.

Fact of the matter is I wouldn't want anyone digging me up, period.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#20 JchaosRS

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Posted 30 November 2004 - 12:30 PM

Why? I really dont see the problem when your dead and gone. I really dont think you'll be needing your body any time after that.

Personally, I dont give a damn what happens to my body. If you want to ground it up into fertiliser, then go ahead. Want the organs to benifit other people, so be it. Oh, you want  string my body up a flag pole and spray paint my face pink? Sure, as long as no one else has a better use for it, give it a shot.  

There comes a time in your life when you need to let go of your urge to own everything. And that time is at the end of it. Its not YOUR body anymore. Your dead, it WAS your body. Now it belongs to whom ever you decid to give it to. Anyways.
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