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Archaeology: Science or Grave Robbing?

Science Archaeology Grave Robbing

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52 replies to this topic

Poll: Are Archaeologists Grave Robbers? Or scientists? (46 member(s) have cast votes)

Are Archaeologists Grave Robbers? Or scientists?

  1. Grave Robbers (8 votes [17.39%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.39%

  2. Scientists (38 votes [82.61%])

    Percentage of vote: 82.61%

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#41 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 06 December 2004 - 04:43 PM

Chaddee, on Dec 6 2004, 03:55 PM, said:

if it's just objects, imho, it's just that. Objects. They are owned by teh government who's soil it is, and therefore belong to them. Easy.


<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That's like saying that all of your possessions belong to the government then. Because, technically your house, or apartment, is on the Governments soil. Don't know about you, but I will fight with anyone that comes along and tries to take what I got.

Now if I'm dead, and you want to take what I owned...you'll be taking your chances that I won't be able to haunt you. Which, I very well may not be able to. The mere fact that these people are dead does NOT give one the right to come in and take their possessions.

Wars have begun that way. The white man wanted what the native americans had...and their logic was that if they killed enough native americans, the indians possessions (namely land) would be theirs. As it so happens, that is what happened...but that still doesn't make it right.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#42 FlatlandDan

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Posted 06 December 2004 - 05:09 PM

Once again, purely out of curiousity, what are your plans for all of your belongings once you're dead LotS?  What plans have you put into place to make sure that none of your belongings end up in a museum in the future?  

As hokey as it sounds, if you arn't putting something in your will saying that you want everything you own burned then I question your right to ownership of them once you're dead if you havn't taken the steps to make sure it is destroyed.

Come to think of it, what about antiques?  Things that have passed on through generations and end up in a store?  What is your position on those things?

I'm sorry if I'm stepping on any toes, but this whole conversation is really interesting to me.
My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

#43 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 06 December 2004 - 07:16 PM

FlatlandDan said:

Once again, purely out of curiousity, what are your plans for all of your belongings once you're dead LotS? What plans have you put into place to make sure that none of your belongings end up in a museum in the future?

Well I've thought of putting in my will, that I wanted my coffin boobytrapped...So that if it is opened the whole thing blows...taking not only my corpse and possessions, but whomever was stupid enough to open it.  ;)  j/k

Seriously now...As for any money left behind, that would go to family or friends. Along with whatever possession I have at the time. If any jewelry is buried with me, like rings or watches (not that I would need a watch at that point) I'd probably have it stipulated in my will that they are not to be removed, ect.

However, I'm seriously considering cremation. Thanks to my Aunt watching all those forsenic files, autopsy's ect...she learned that when your corpse is at the funeral home and they are getting ready to embalm you...they stick a rod into your corpse and literally break your internal organs up. So not only is cremation cheaper, it seems less gruesome. If I do go with cremation, then all my possessions such as rings, watches, ect would also be burned with me.

FlatlandDan said:

Come to think of it, what about antiques? Things that have passed on through generations and end up in a store? What is your position on those things?

If I pass something on to my family members, and they wind up selling it...then that's what happens. It would be within their rights to do so. Say I leave a rare coin I found, or something along those lines...20 years down the road that piece is now worth some serious money and my family decides to sell it...then that's their choice. I have no problem with family members selling off a passed relatives possessions. They are the ones who have to decide if they can live with selling it.


FlatlandDan said:

I'm sorry if I'm stepping on any toes, but this whole conversation is really interesting to me.

It takes a lot more then asking questions to step on my toes... :)
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#44 FlatlandDan

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 08:21 AM

So in other words, if something isn't burried with you then it's fair game.  So long as it isn't grave goods you have no problem with it going to a museum?

I'm still curious to find out what you think should happen to bodies that can't be left where they have been burried?
My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

#45 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 10:13 AM

Quote

So in other words, if something isn't burried with you then it's fair game. So long as it isn't grave goods you have no problem with it going to a museum?

Pretty much.

Quote

I'm still curious to find out what you think should happen to bodies that can't be left where they have been burried?

Sorry, thought I answered that...looks like I didn't. Here's how I see that. I a coffin, or coffins, can't stay where they are....there are ways to move the coffin without opening it and taking the body out of the coffin. I'm not really against digging up a coffin and moving it.

I just can't see who would want to build on a former cemetary? Poltergeist anyone?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#46 JchaosRS

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 03:22 PM

I wont live anywhere near a cemetery because of that movie.
Will be eternally Rommie's Slave
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#47 tennyson

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 03:32 PM

Oh please, I grew up with a cemetary as the next thing down the road from me and I was fine. It was just another piece of the landscape.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#48 FlatlandDan

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 04:02 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Dec 7 2004, 04:13 PM, said:

Sorry, thought I answered that...looks like I didn't. Here's how I see that. I a coffin, or coffins, can't stay where they are....there are ways to move the coffin without opening it and taking the body out of the coffin. I'm not really against digging up a coffin and moving it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What about in cases when there is no coffin?  Lots of these bodies would be mighty old and many other cultires don't  use coffins.  

Gah, I feel like I'm going on ad nosium about the whole thing, but I really am interested in finding out someones opinion on these (without all the crazy ranting and raving that usually goes on in topics like this)
My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

#49 JchaosRS

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 04:51 PM

Why would ranting and raveing go with topics of thie nature?

tennyson, I cant remember how old I was but when I first saw that movie, but I got the creeps- big time. Tie that in with some bad childhood memories and there is no way I would live near a cemetery.
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#50 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 07 December 2004 - 05:39 PM

tennyson, on Dec 7 2004, 03:32 PM, said:

Oh please, I grew up with a cemetary as the next thing down the road from me and I was fine. It was just another piece of the landscape.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


My mother never liked going anywhere near cemetaries...but not because of any movie, but because of her sister...LOL.

My mother and her friends were talking to each other about going into the cemetary at night, to prove how brave they were. My Aunt overheard this, so left the house and got to the cemetary first. Having listened to the conversation she knew roughly where they would be walking. When my mom and her friends walked by my Aunt stuck out her hand from underneath the bush she was hiding under.

As soon as my mother saw the hand she freaked. She ran towards the 4 foot metal fence that surrounded the cemetary. According to both her and my aunt, my mother cleared that fence in one jump, and landed in the middle of the street.

FlatlandDan said:

What about in cases when there is no coffin? Lots of these bodies would be mighty old and many other cultires don't use coffins.

Are you talking about a known cemetary that doesn't use coffins? Or something along the lines of a known burial site?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#51 FlatlandDan

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 04:35 PM

The situation I have in my mind is one where a body isn't expected to be found or one in which a coffin was expected but there isn't one.
My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

#52 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 December 2004 - 10:10 PM

FlatlandDan, on Dec 8 2004, 04:35 PM, said:

The situation I have in my mind is one where a body isn't expected to be found or one in which a coffin was expected but there isn't one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well if a body is unexpectedly uncovered, say during a construction project, I'm sure the police would remove it, investigate, and eventually bury the remains. I don't have a problem with that.

As for digging up a known grave site, expecting to find a coffin, and there not being one...I have to ask: Why they were digging it up in the first place? If it was to do forensic testing...I'm not fond of that, unless the family members agree to it. But either way, I'd expect that they would investigate and find out why there was no coffin.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#53 FlatlandDan

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Posted 09 December 2004 - 01:39 PM

^^^

My thought on it was that wood doesn't last forever.  I'm not sure how long it lasts for, but I know it's not forever ;)  Sometimes cemetaries have to be moved, due to erosion and what not.  I know one of the most sinister things I've ever seen in my life was a cemetary in Mexico that had been build on a cliff overlooking the sea.  During a huge storm part of the cliff colapsed and exposed about twenty graves.
My candle burns at both its ends;
It will not last the night;
But oh, my foes, and oh, my friends --
It gives a lovely light."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay



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