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U.S. Combat Fatality Rate Lowest Ever

Military Fatalities Low rate

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#61 Vapor Trails

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 11:08 AM

Kevin Street, on Dec 14 2004, 12:38 AM, said:

We're all friends here, so lets act like it. Okay?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


We are??  :blink:  That's news to me.

Look, let's get things straight. Some folks here know each other, and some don't. Regardless of that, respect is a two-way street. You give what you recieve.

And Kevin-please don't include me in your "friends" remark. I'm not part of this "we" you're talking about. I don't view interactions on the internet as "friendship".

Saul

Edited by Digital Man, 14 December 2004 - 11:10 AM.

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#62 Kevin Street

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 03:19 PM

nutmeg said:

I see that Spectacles has operated in good faith and removed her post. I still see Ogami's subtitle. I'm presuming he will reciprocate soon?

But Ogami already changed his subtitle once, and given that we never asked him to do so again I'm inclined to let things stand as they are. If anybody tries to go further and use sub-titles as a means of skirting the guidelines and attacking other people (Which is not what Ogami was doing here, imo. He just posted his opinion.), we'll have to see, though.

Digital Man said:

And Kevin-please don't include me in your "friends" remark. I'm not part of this "we" you're talking about. I don't view interactions on the internet as "friendship".

No offense was meant, Digital Man.

#63 nutmeg

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 04:24 PM

With all due respect, Kevin -- if I post that all Non-ExIsle rightwingers will find joy in increased military deaths in Iraq in a subheading, that will be permissable because that's an opinion? How is that not an attack on rightwingers -- and by extension rightwingers at ExIsle?  See how this has become an extremely slippery slope here?

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#64 Ogami

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 06:18 PM

Spectacles wrote:

Well, I was holding out for Ogami's genuine edit of the subtitle.

Get a life.

I am still incredulous that the good news of "lowest combat fatality rate ever" can be spun into a negative. This is a reflection on the state of journalism today, and the mindset of that peculiar group of leftists who see an American defeat as a win for their point of view. I express ire at such people, there are such leftists who desire such a defeat visited upon America. And they're willing to twist the news itself to fit that yearning, if not preconception of how the news "should" be.

Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm mistaken, that's all fine. Want to censor me? Won't help you there.

-Ogami

#65 nutmeg

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 06:54 PM

Well, there you go, Kevin, ya fed the beast.  He learned so much from your tolerance.


:devil:   Oh well,  maybe karma can be a wonderful thing. I think I'll just sit back and watch this slope get more and more slippery.


Have fun.

nutmeg

#66 waterpanther

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 07:05 PM

It is my considered opinion that far-right wingnuts comsume way too much Koolaid.  

The calculus here is that journalist=leftist=believer in-- well, whatever Pigboy's broadcast du jour says they believe in.  Time for some folks to get a life, indeed.

Or at least an occasional independent thought.

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#67 Kevin Street

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 07:28 PM

nutmeg, on Dec 14 2004, 03:24 PM, said:

With all due respect, Kevin -- if I post that all Non-ExIsle rightwingers will find joy in increased military deaths in Iraq in a subheading, that will be permissable because that's an opinion? How is that not an attack on rightwingers -- and by extension rightwingers at ExIsle?  See how this has become an extremely slippery slope here?

I see what you're saying, but in this case (and this case alone) I don't think Ogami was trying to be offensive. I think he posted his opinion and didn't realize (and indeed, still doesn't seem to realize) how offensive it is to other people. But if Ogami or someone else (of any political persuasion) does this sort of thing again after all the trouble it caused in this thread, it will be obvious that their intent is to be deliberately disruptive, and action will be taken.

That's the best I can do at this point.

#68 Spectacles

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 08:21 PM

Quote

I am still incredulous that the good news of "lowest combat fatality rate ever" can be spun into a negative. This is a reflection on the state of journalism today, and the mindset of that peculiar group of leftists who see an American defeat as a win for their point of view. I express ire at such people, there are such leftists who desire such a defeat visited upon America. And they're willing to twist the news itself to fit that yearning, if not preconception of how the news "should" be.

Tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm mistaken, that's all fine. Want to censor me? Won't help you there.

Fair enough. You're wrong. You're mistaken. And this has been pointed out to you repeatedly on this thread, yet you persist in standing by your flawed and offensively partisan opinion.

Once again from the top: the "leftist" bias you claim in that article does not exist, contrary to what Rush Limbaugh asserts. It is not biased to report the whole picture, which is that more troops are being saved, thanks to medical advances and the ability to get the wounded to care more quickly. The less pleasant but equally true flip side is that, though more survive their wounds, more have to adjust to a drastically altered life. Now, are we to ignore that? Is it "liberal bias" to report on the wounded--when in fact they exist?

Absolutely nowhere in the article is it even implied that saving more troops is "bad news."

Quote

This is a reflection on the state of journalism today, and the mindset of that peculiar group of leftists who see an American defeat as a win for their point of view.

That is, respectfully, baloney. Where on earth are you getting the notion that this reporter wants an American defeat? You're pulling this irresponsible charge out of thin air, Ogami. And in your zeal to attack the "liberal media," you're making an argument that goes something like this: anyone who reports anything but good news about Iraq, anyone who doesn't put a positive spin on the Iraq War, wants America to be defeated and is essentially guilty of treason. That's the implication of your argument.  That's what I find particularly offensive about it. It is untrue. Your charges have no foundation in the facts of the article. And the only spin here is what you've done.

I "unignored" your response in hopes that you had read and considered the points made by others and perhaps thought better of the erroneous opinion you've attached to this piece. How silly of me. But if you persist in declaring it, well, the joke's on you. A number of posters have tried to point out to you something that's the equivalent of giving a speech with your fly open. If you choose not to zip it up, it's baffling, but it's your choice.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#69 Spectacles

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 08:27 PM

Quote

Kevin: I think he posted his opinion and didn't realize (and indeed, still doesn't seem to realize) how offensive it is to other people.

Do you really think that? After being told repeatedly that his subtitle *is* offensive and *why* it's offensive, do you really think he doesn't know that? And beyond offensive, it's untrue. Oh well. On to other things....
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#70 Ogami

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 09:44 PM

Spectacles wrote:

Once again from the top: the "leftist" bias you claim in that article does not exist, contrary to what Rush Limbaugh asserts.

It always amuses me that certain people (shall we say left of conservative, to avoid offense) scream and shout and stamp their feet that anyone is permitted to think or talk differently than they do.

I say again, get a life. It is not a crime to disagree with you. You don't like it that I'm not required to share your opinion? Too bad. Get over it.

-Ogami

#71 Kevin Street

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Posted 14 December 2004 - 11:05 PM

Stick to the subject, Ogami. Not the other people in the thread.

You're all out of slack with me.

#72 Spectacles

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 08:20 AM

Quote

It is not a crime to disagree with you.

Neither is it a crime to point out that your opinion in this case has no apparent basis in reality. That's a point you seem to have conceded because you don't provide evidence from the article to support your claim that "the Left" is disappointed that more troops are surviving their wounds. You merely reiterate the claim.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#73 Guldorak

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 11:53 AM

Spectacles, on Dec 15 2004, 10:20 AM, said:

Quote

It is not a crime to disagree with you.

Neither is it a crime to point out that your opinion in this case has no apparent basis in reality. That's a point you seem to have conceded because you don't provide evidence from the article to support your claim that "the Left" is disappointed that more troops are surviving their wounds. You merely reiterate the claim.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Edited

Edited by Guldorak, 15 December 2004 - 12:18 PM.


#74 Shalamar

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 11:58 AM

Guldorak - as Kevin said - Stick to the subject not the other people in the thread.
The three most important R's
Respect for One's Self / Respect for Others / Responsibility for One's Words & Actions.

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#75 Ogami

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 07:33 PM

Spectacles wrote:

Neither is it a crime to point out that your opinion in this case has no apparent basis in reality. That's a point you seem to have conceded because you don't provide evidence from the article to support your claim that "the Left" is disappointed that more troops are surviving their wounds. You merely reiterate the claim.

I have the entire three year history of the left (summer 2002) to point to as my evidence, you are not my prosecutor. The left insists to this day that Saddam Hussein (the legitimate president of Iraq) was illegally removed from power in an illegal war, as they slyly insist Bush is conversely the illegitimate president. They counted down with an almost sexual rapture to the 1000th American fatality in Iraq. They discount any positive news from Iraq, solely for the specious and laughable reason that it could be seen as helping Bush.

And the loathing the left feels for the American military, Spectacles, has been so well-documented that it it ludicrous for you to even raise the question. Try reading a word or two on Vietnam, I assume you've heard the word, hmm?

As the left viewed an American defeat in Vietnam as a moral victory for international goodness, so the left views an American defeat in Iraq as a moral win for their side. It doesn't take too much calculation to see then which side the left is rooting for, and which side the left wants to lose.

Don't pretend otherwise with me, we know each other too well.

-Ogami

Edited by Ogami, 15 December 2004 - 07:35 PM.


#76 Spectacles

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 07:58 PM

Quote

I have the entire three year history of the left (summer 2002) to point to as my evidence, you are not my prosecutor. The left insists to this day that Saddam Hussein (the legitimate president of Iraq) was illegally removed from power in an illegal war, as they slyly insist Bush is conversely the illegitimate president. They counted down with an almost sexual rapture to the 1000th American fatality in Iraq. They discount any positive news from Iraq, solely for the specious and laughable reason that it could be seen as helping Bush.

And the loathing the left feels for the American military, Spectacles, has been so well-documented that it it ludicrous for you to even raise the question. Try reading a word or two on Vietnam, I assume you've heard the word, hmm?

As the left viewed an American defeat in Vietnam as a moral victory for international goodness, so the left views an American defeat in Iraq as a moral win for their side. It doesn't take too much calculation to see then which side the left is rooting for, and which side the left wants to lose.

Don't pretend otherwise with me, we know each other too well.

Uh-huh. And you see evidence of this heinous America/Bush-hatred in the article? If so, where?
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#77 Zwolf

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 11:32 PM

Well,  I see there's been some firm  insistence that non-ExIsle lefties view low U.S. combat fatality rates as bad news.  

Despite my claims of being a moderate, I've been assured by many don't-quite-get (or maybe just-don't-like) the-concept-of-moderation  neo-cons on several other sites that I'm a "leftie."   I used to consider myself Republican up until the new Bushie-type breed corrupted the party and did away with such core ideas as fiscal responsibility, smaller federal government, freedom, etc.    That was a turn-off, and then interacting with a certain perhaps over-enthusiastic rightie of everyone's acquaintance (who I won't name ‘cuz I don't wanna get banned just yet) was the final straw and threw me into the arms of the Democrats.   Even though I believe in all that aforementioned fiscal responsibility and smaller feds/stronger states, approve of the death penalty (and think it should be expanded to include rapists, child abusers, etc.), like and own guns, and ain't all that hung up ‘bout trees 'n' owls 'n' snaildarters (oh my), I still not only voted for Kerry but did so with great enthusiasm. I'm also not terribly fond of religion, and that seems to be a no-no for today's Republican.   So, since those lovable lil' factoids are part of my Playmate data sheet, and since I've been chased off from the Republican side of things ‘cuz I didn't conform enough to suit ‘em, I guess I have to be what they label me.  

So now I'm a leftie-by-default.   Funny, I still hate Barbara Streisand, but what can ya do?

But despite being a member of the "(insert derogatory adjective of your choice here) left,"  I definitely do NOT see low U.S. combat fatality rates as a bad thing.  I don't want any of our troops to die.  I'm not a fan of the Iraq war, not so much for moral hang-ups but because I see it as possibly the biggest tactical blunder in American history (a point I may hammer home over the next few grueling weeks or months), but I'm definitely a fan of our troops, who are just doing their job and have to go where they're sent.  I've mailed ‘em books and cookies and all kinds of other stuff, so I definitely want them all to be around to eat ‘em and read ‘em.  So, I'd hate for anyone to get the mistaken idea that I'd find joy in the deaths of American soldiers.  Yet, there it is, the inescapable, absolute, and I'm sure no-disrespect-meant  statement: Non-ExIsle left sees low U.S. fatality rate as bad news.

Wow.   That kinda leaves a leftie-by-default, troop-supporting fella only one logical door to take, doesn't it?

I have to stop being a non-ExIsle leftie, and register here and start posting!

Thank you, forum powers that be, for providing me this opportunity to escape that terrible fate which was nearly thrust upon me.  

In retrospect certain people may end up deciding it might've  been a better idea just to edit the silly subtitle, but, oh well, it's water under the bridge and now we are where we are.  

Merrrrrrrrrrrry motherbleeping Xmas, kids!  :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Zwolf

Edited by Zwolf666, 16 December 2004 - 07:06 AM.

"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#78 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 11:35 PM

Heya Zeta Lobo! :D

Good to see ya!

:)

Saul
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#79 Zwolf

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 11:45 PM

Hiya, Saul!

Likewise! :)  Hope the writing's been going well and everything else is going cool.   Everything's more-or-less okay here, other than keeping up with last-minute-before-Xmas chores costing me some sleep... which I'm fixing to go try to grab some of now.  I'm building a sleep-deficit the way Bush builds budget-and-trade deficits.   The only difference is, I'm aware that I'm stupid for doing it... ;)

Good seein' ya!

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#80 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 11:48 PM

Z,

I'll send ya a PM.

:cool:

Saul
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait



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