Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

1st White Christmas in 86 years

Climate Change Science Weather

  • Please log in to reply
68 replies to this topic

#1 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 03:12 PM

Brrr... this is the coldest global warming yet!

http://apnews.myway..../D876M1C02.html

Quote

Texas Town Sees 1st White Christmas in 86 Years
Dec 25, 7:44 AM (ET)
By The Associated Press

Folks in Victoria, Texas, just off the Gulf Coast, weren't dreaming Saturday when they woke up to a white Christmas. They had one - the first in 86 years.

Almost a foot of snow fell overnight to give Victoria a taste of what the country's midsection has been dealing with the past two days: winter weather.

An arctic front that swept through the Midwest hit Indiana and Kentucky particularly hard, bringing record snowfalls that snarled holiday travel and stopped last-minute Christmas shoppers in their tracks. More than a dozen traffic deaths and thousands of auto accidents have been blamed on the storm so far.

The last time Victoria saw a measurable amount of snow was 1973, when a tenth of an inch fell. That's the same amount that fell on Christmas 1918, said Tony Merriman, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service.
(end excerpt)

#2 JadziaDax

JadziaDax

    E.I.'s resident insomniac

  • Islander
  • 2,612 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 05:39 PM

That same front brought negative F weather to my state....hit 2 days too late :(. We never get a white Christmas here....and you'd think Colorado would.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup

#3 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 05:51 PM

We are raining all day here in Central Florida, but it's a little chilly to remind us of Christmas.  :happy:

#4 Laconiq

Laconiq
  • Just Washed Ashore
  • 22 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 07:10 PM

As posted by Ogami:

Quote

Brrr... this is the coldest global warming yet!
lol...you really have no idea, do you?...might help if you studied the earth and it's climatic systems a little.
:rolleyes:

Edited by Laconiq, 26 December 2004 - 05:22 AM.


#5 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 07:24 PM

'Course, ten days or so ago, it was 87 degrees here in snowy South Texas, but I guess that has nothing to do with climate change.  Three years ago, it was so hot the asphalt on parts of  I-35 melted in June, but I guess that has nothing to do with climate change, either.

Last year and the year before, I lit my CH units just before Thanksgiving.  This year I turned them on three days ago, on Wednesday.  A few years past, we were having our first seriously cold weather around Halloween, with sleet in early November.  And a few years before that, we'd inevitably get a hard freeze before Thanksgiving.  When I was a child, it wasn't uncommon for parents to show up at school early just before a front to get the kids to come pull the citrus off the trees before the ice got it.  Now, even with the snow, there wasn't a hard freeze and the oranges are just fine.  

No change.  Nothing to see here, folks, just keep on moving. . ..

waterpanther

Edited by waterpanther, 25 December 2004 - 07:30 PM.

Posted Image

#6 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 07:52 PM

Laconiq wrote:

lol...you really have no idea, do you?...might help if you studied the earth and it's climatic systems a little.

Might help if you check out the cover stories from Newsweek and Time in the mid-seventies, warning of Global Cooling putting us in a new Ice Age. Oh look, I found one.

http://www.globalcli...rg/Newsweek.htm

Quote

Newsweek
April 28, 1975

The Cooling World
   There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production– with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now. The regions destined to feel its impact are the great wheat-producing lands of Canada and the U.S.S.R. in the North, along with a number of marginally self-sufficient tropical areas – parts of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indochina and Indonesia – where the growing season is dependent upon the rains brought by the monsoon.

   The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it. In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline by about two weeks since 1950, with a resultant overall loss in grain production estimated at up to 100,000 tons annually. During the same time, the average temperature around the equator has risen by a fraction of a degree – a fraction that in some areas can mean drought and desolation. Last April, in the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars' worth of damage in 13 U.S. states.

and check this out!

Quote

survey completed last year by Dr. Murray Mitchell of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration reveals a drop of half a degree in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968. According to George Kukla of Columbia University, satellite photos indicated a sudden, large increase in Northern Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 1971-72. And a study released last month by two NOAA scientists notes that the amount of sunshine reaching the ground in the continental U.S. diminished by 1.3% between 1964 and 1972.

Check out those predictions, why we ran out of food as the learned scientists insisted, right?

Laconiq(!), please prepare yourself better when lecturing me whether I have a command of the facts. Otherwise you'll find the experience akin to a LeCar colliding with a gas-guzzling Hummer.

-Ogami

Edited by Ogami, 25 December 2004 - 07:53 PM.


#7 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 08:31 PM

Quote

Laconiq(!), please prepare yourself better when lecturing me whether I have a command of the facts. Otherwise you'll find the experience akin to a LeCar colliding with a gas-guzzling Hummer.

A Hummer with three wheels missing?  Oooooooohhhhhhhh, be afraid, Laconiq!  Be very afraid. :lol:

Ogami, if you'd pay more attention to the actual science, instead of what right-wing organizations tell you the science is, you'd have some credibility here.  Now, just how objective is  the Global Climate Coalition "A voice for business in the global warming debate," hmmm?  

They, like you, seem to have missed the salient point in the Newsweek article, which concerns oceanic warming at the equator.  If you've been following the science--I know, I know, you haven't, but I mention the possibility just to be polite--you're aware that current climate change theory sees the strong possiblity of rises in temperature in some areas with concommitant drops in temperature elsewhere.  For example, that ocean warming could turn much of Central America and Southern North America into a desert.  At the same time, it could deflect the Gulf Stream, which could bring Little Ice Age conditions to Northern Europe.  So the catch phrase, "global warming" doesn't quite cover the essentials.  But the Reichwing likes to use it--as they like to use phrases like "partial birth abortion"--to produce a knee-jerk emotional response and impress the folks who don't bother to investigate the issues for themselves.

The ability to use Google does not necessarily reflect a command of the facts.

waterpanther
Posted Image

#8 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 08:41 PM

WaterPanther wrote:

right-wing organizations tell you the science is, you'd have some credibility here. Now, just how objective is the Global Climate Coalition "A voice for business in the global warming debate," hmmm?

This is a Newsweek COVER STORY from 1975, intended to alarm the public that GLOBAL COOLING (and worldwide food shortages) were just around the corner. But should we go by the alarmist scientific community's track record, or their good intentions? Their track record at shouting "the sky is falling!" is pretty bad.

At the same time, it could deflect the Gulf Stream, which could bring Little Ice Age conditions to Northern Europe.

Just because you get your environmental information from Fox blockbuster movies doesn't mean we all should. You're going to trust something Fox put out? Heh.

But the Reichwing likes to use it--as they like to use phrases like "partial birth abortion"--to produce a knee-jerk emotional response and impress the folks who don't bother to investigate the issues for themselves.

"Partial birth abortion" is a specific, named, medical procedure. Let's meet halfway - You say that partial birth abortion is a made-up phrase, and I'll say the same about Global Warming. Which one exists?


The ability to use Google does not necessarily reflect a command of the facts.

I retain the ability to laugh at the environmental movement, their track record, and their hysterical pronouncements. And all it takes is the looking up of a Newsweek cover story. Their dire predictions of doom are written in the same breathless "we're all gonna die" manner today, and have as little scientific validity.

-Ogami

#9 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 09:02 PM

1975, Ogami.  Twenty years ago.  (Sort of like Saddam's WMD's, you know?)  Science, unlike fundamentalists of both the religious and political stripes, changes with the facts.  The facts today include such things as the increasingly rapid melting of polar ice (both poles), the migration northward of subtropical and tropical species as their habitat changes with the climate, and increasingly violent weather fluctuations.  You can pretend that these are all lies made up by Evil Leftists and propagated by Evil Leftist Journalists, but don't expect houseroom when the ocean level rises and central Florida turns into an island chain.  :p

Sorry, I don't watch anything put out by Fox.  Matter of principle, there.  Was Sean Hannity in it?

"Partial birth abortion" is the specifically named medical procedure "intact dilation and extraction."  And you're right, "global warming" is a similar catch-phrase.  It should more accurately be "global climate change."  (But see, that makes a problem for you, doesn't it?  Then you wouldn't be able to parrot absurd Reichwing pronouncments every time the temperature dips.)

waterpanther

Edited by waterpanther, 25 December 2004 - 09:11 PM.

Posted Image

#10 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 09:25 PM

Waterpanther wrote:

Science, unlike fundamentalists of both the religious and political stripes, changes with the facts.

Alarmist science, where people make their livings by pronouncing doom upon the entire civilization, is not science at all. It is taking a few dispirite facts and stringing them together to scare people. The fact that these popularists got it so wrong in the seventies points to similar rabble-rousing today.

Historically, when a prophet has predicted the end of the world, and it didn't come to pass, the people didn't pay attention to his next prediction a few decades later. Those who did were the faithful, convinced the world was doomed in some way, just not knowing how. Today's situation is no different, and has more to do with mass hysteria than scientific fact.

Just one example: We're told that there was a "little Ice Age" starting from 1600 and ending in 1900. Now, how many SUVs did we have destroying the environment in 1600? Zip. How many giant steel mills? Zero. How many air conditioners? None.

Environmentalists don't just talk about climate studies, no they talk about evil SUVs, how Americans consume "too much" of the world's resources, and other assorted complaints that sound awfully similar to the Communist rhetoric of the previous century. But how could that be, right? How could environmental activists have an agenda?

Then you wouldn't be able to parrot absurd Reichwing pronouncments every time the temperature dips.)

So far I've posted a newspaper story on a Texas snowfall, and a Newsweek article. How odd than anything you don't agree with gets labeled "Reichwing". I'm sure the staff at Newsweek would be surprised at hearing of your peculiar pronouncement.

-Ogami

Edited by Ogami, 25 December 2004 - 09:25 PM.


#11 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 25 December 2004 - 09:38 PM

Uhmm, Ogami--not all climate scientists are part of one colony creature.  The fact that one scientist's projections didn't pan out doesn't invalidate another scientist's work.  Next you'll be telling us that all this means Darwin was wrong, too.  Or that all Republican Congressmen are suspected murders because Joe Scarborough's intern showed up mysteriously dead in his office when he was in process of splitting from his wife and kids.   Tch. Logical fallacy there.

And of course environmentalists have an agenda.  All movements have an agenda. You have an agenda.  If you want to opt out of having your ass saved along with everyone else's, though, just sign right here and we environmentalists will be happy to honor your wishes:

_____________________________

Ogami  12/25/2004


I doubt the Newsweek staff would be surprised.  I've been known to say some unkind things about Howard Fineman, specifically regarding the deep chocolate tint of his nose after he's been standing behind King George for a while.

waterpanther
Posted Image

#12 Mr.Calgary

Mr.Calgary

    Has left.

  • Islander
  • 1,348 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 01:17 AM

Well, we certainly have 100% proof that someone is Hot under the collar.  :lol:

Hi Ogami, Merry Christmas.

Keep up the good work, keep bursting those left-leaning bubbles.  :thumbs-up:

Posted Image


edit for spelling

Edited by Mr.Calgary, 26 December 2004 - 09:46 AM.

Favourite Coda thread quotes.....

(1)  Yes. Bad Trance! Wicked, Evil Trance!

(2)  Stayed purple.   (3)  Bad, bad Trance!

(4)  Love and Blowing Things Up continue forever. The universe wins

#13 Jazzer

Jazzer

    Here I am

  • Islander
  • 5,281 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 01:40 AM

There's a related thread in "Exploring the Universe" that Gefiltefishmon started titled "Climate Change: Myths Debunked, It's about the Climate, Stupid" http://www.exisle.ne...showtopic=23611  if anyone wants to jump in there on the discussion.  If this thread is any indication, it could get lively and interesting.  

(edited to add link)

Edited by Jazzergold, 26 December 2004 - 01:44 AM.

Unanswered questions aren't nearly as dangerous as unquestioned answers.

#14 Soton

Soton
  • Islander
  • 249 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 09:24 AM

waterpanther, on Dec 25 2004, 09:02 PM, said:

1975, Ogami.  Twenty years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Whoa.  When did we time travel back to 1995?  :D

#15 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 11:02 AM

:lol:

Easy, Soton.  All you have to do is take off your glasses for a moment!  Thanks for catching the glitch.

For anyone interested in actual climate science, done by actual climate scientists, the link below is a fine resource.

www.realclimate.org/

I especially recommend Gavin Schmidt's debunking of Michael Crichton's rather odd new novel on the subject at hand.  Dr. Schmidt addresses, among other things, the reasons why a local cooling trend does not negate overall global warming.  (Warning:  the article is as dry as a mouthful of bread crumbs, but then, most scientific papers are.)

waterpanther

Edited by waterpanther, 26 December 2004 - 11:15 AM.

Posted Image

#16 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 12:09 PM

Waterpanther wrote:

Uhmm, Ogami--not all climate scientists are part of one colony creature.

Climate scientists don't make dire global warming predictions of doom, they will tell you that there is too little known about worldwide climate patterns to make sweeping pronouncements. That's where the environmentalists come in, to take little bits of data and turn it into a prognosis of ULTIMATE DESTRUCTION. Get it straight, climate scientists stick to their specialties, while environmentalists are consulted to make movies like The Day After Tomorrow.
____________________

Mr. Calgary wrote:

Well, we certainly have 100% proof that someone is Hot under the collar.  Hi Ogami, Merry Christmas. Keep up the good work, keep bursting those left-leaning bubbles

LOL Merry Christmas yourself, Mr. Calgary.

Yes, it would appear to be a source of personal outrage that anyone should dare criticize the anointed saviors of the planet. Environmentalists only want what's best for all of us, it's heresy to speak out against them! (chuckle) You'd think I slapped Waterpanther's mother, just for reposting a 1975 Newsweek cover story.

But perspective is something that doesn't come up in environmental debates anyway, come to think of it. You're either with the environmentalists, or a tool of the corporations. (Now we know where all those counterculture hippies from the sixties went. They moved on from Wavy Gravy and LSD to the environmental movement. Explains a lot.)

-Ogami

#17 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 12:48 PM

Ogami--

I suggest you actually read some of the climate scientists' papers on the subject.  You're making sweeping and unfounded generalizations again, and, once again, statements that have no basis in fact.  If you actually look at the site, for instance, you'll find that climatologists themselves have no use for the 1975 predictions, yet you cite that to discredit their legitimate findings.  

Most climatologists are environmentalists, as are a good many biologists, ecologists, geologists and other scientific types.  It kind of goes with the territory and a respect for demonstrable facts.

waterpanther
Posted Image

#18 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 12:48 PM

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  @ waterpanther.

Boy, are your posts fun to read. :D

"Reichwing"-BRILLIANT.  :lol: I'm glad I wasn't drinking coffee, or I would have spewed it all over my 'puter. :p

:hehe:

Edited by Digital Man, 26 December 2004 - 12:49 PM.

Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#19 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 01:02 PM

waterpanther, on Dec 26 2004, 06:48 PM, said:

If you actually look at the site, for instance, you'll find that climatologists themselves have no use for the 1975 predictions, yet you cite that to discredit their legitimate findings. 

This actually happens a lot of the time, where earlier flawed research is pointed to as 'proof' that segments of science are wrong, but later corrective research is ignored.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#20 Nikcara

Nikcara

    confused little imp

  • Islander
  • 3,500 posts

Posted 26 December 2004 - 03:28 PM

I'm agreeing with Waterpanther here

He seems to be using the science I learned in my college classes and from research papers I've read.  But then again, college professors and research paper authors are all evil, left-wing nutcases, so what would I know?
We have fourty million reasons for failure, but not a single excuse  -- Rudyard Kipling

Develop compassion for your enemies, that is genuine compassion.  Limited compassion cannot produce this altruism.  -- H. H. the Dalai Lama



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Climate Change, Science, Weather

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users