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The U.S. and other Western nations are "stingy"

United Nations UN Humanitarian Affairs Western Nations Stingy

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#41 The Groovy Mule

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 10:37 PM

AA, how much money did you give these people before the disaster?  If you're giving it now but not then, The Groovy Mule would say it smacks more of simply acting to relieve your conscience, so try not to wax moralistic.

#42 Natasha Bennett

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 10:46 PM

Hey, at least I'm doing something. :)

And, believe it or not, I also care about what's happening to these people. Maybe it's easier to identify them then other charities because it could happen to you through some freak accident. Since I live right next to the pacific, yes it could happen to me any day now. Frankly where we live we're due for one. And anothe reason, it's the right thing to do. Yes there are loads of charities and you can't donate to them all (or most) but maybe you could start with this one. Imagine how it would help someone else.

Edited by AndromedaAbyss, 29 December 2004 - 11:02 PM.


#43 Natasha Bennett

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 10:57 PM

Look, all these people are asking for is five bucks if nothing else. Why is that so hard? :( Rather then say how these people aren't worth your time, you could...I dunno, do that?

Edited by AndromedaAbyss, 29 December 2004 - 11:03 PM.


#44 waterpanther

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 11:06 PM

Have you hugged your money today?  :devil:

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#45 Natasha Bennett

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Posted 29 December 2004 - 11:32 PM

Is that in referance to me or The Groovy Mule?

If me, I am officially broke 'cause I had to pay for my colledge courses. I have cards with no money and huge debts I can hug, though.  :cool:

Edited by AndromedaAbyss, 29 December 2004 - 11:33 PM.


#46 G1223

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 12:31 AM

waterpanther, on Dec 30 2004, 04:06 AM, said:

Have you hugged your money today?  :devil:

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No but I did the food it bought me. I guess living in the fantasy world means not having to buy those nessescities of life.   Oh and that silly money stuff is used to buy food for those who cannot afford it.  I gave $100 to Wheeler Mission's here in Indy to give Christmas cheer to those who could not otherwise get it.  

It's not out of guilt it is what my family has done year after year. I know I am not alone in giving because it's the right thing to do.
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#47 The Groovy Mule

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 01:00 AM

AndromedaAbyss, on Dec 29 2004, 09:57 PM, said:

Look, all these people are asking for is five bucks if nothing else. Why is that so hard? :( Rather then say how these people aren't worth your time, you could...I dunno, do that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Didn't say it was.

You didn't answer The Groovy Mule's question: did you give to those people before?  You know, they weren't exactly wealthy to begin with...

It seems to The Groovy Mule, based upon your explanations, that you're trying to buy some sort of moral insurance policy: "I gave when they needed help...now I deserve some help if something happens to me."

#48 Godeskian

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 01:29 AM

For all of you still using Egeland's quote, did you see the article I posted where he stated that it wasn't what he meant?

#49 Chakotay

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 01:29 AM

Okay so what price human suffering? Maybe the best idea would be to commit help without putting a price on it? Which would annoy the Budget completely...

First fiscal aid step should be writing off the international debts of the countries affected, IMHO. They're going to have enough long-term problems without having them around their necks too.
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#50 Natasha Bennett

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 02:26 AM

Too tired tonight to make another long post. :) Words go all funny....

It's really not the belief that I think I deserve help if I give it. That's not it at all....it might be out of misguided guilt and/or media attention and/or desire to help that I'm doing this. I have donated to charities before, but never asian ones because those aren't advertised so frequently. Not that it's anyone's business, because that goes into my personal life and that's guarded territory :). I think what gets to people (besides the stories) is the fact that this can happen so easily to other people. Especially to ones that live on the coast. It's not as far reaching as certain diseases or poverty. Not to really jump off the topic here, but one of many reasons that 9/11 got world-wide attention was that according to Bush terrorism could happen to you anyday at anytime. It hits close to home. So yes, it gets to me because I live on the coast, and as I said before, we're due.

This was never about the fact that people didn't donated money. What got to me, what really got to me, was the apparent total lack of respect some people have for the victims right now. I said that before in my previous post. That's what ticks me off. But hey, emotions running high, right?

Hm, that was kinda a long post.  :unsure:

edit for typo

Edited by AndromedaAbyss, 30 December 2004 - 11:51 AM.


#51 The Groovy Mule

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 02:30 AM

Weeelllll...don't feel too bad.  Tomorrow's another day, and just be glad you weren't one of the thousand or so Americans missing over there.

With the death toll over 80,000 always keep in mind that those people breed like rats and will have the overpopulation crisis back on track in no time.

#52 Godeskian

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 03:04 AM

i hope that if where you live is ever hit by a disaster of this magnitude groovy mule, tht people find more kindness in their hearts than you've shown here.

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#53 Lord Ravensburg

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 03:06 AM

I see now.  You're "that" kind of poster.  A deliberately inconsiderate comment here, the reaction you expect there...

How very tiresome.

#54 Kevin Street

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 04:21 AM

I just hope the disaster victims get the aid they need. So much was destroyed and so many people killed - especially in Indonesia and Sri Lanka - there's going to be a lot more deaths if some assistance isn't moved in there fast.
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#55 Laconiq

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 05:28 AM

As posted by The Groovy Mule:

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No, but that's flaming, as we read here from the guidelines:

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Healthy disagreement is welcome, as long as criticisms are focused on the ideas being expressed rather than on the people expressing them. Responding to other posters with insulting, dismissive or deliberately disruptive comments violates this spirit.

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The first thing The Groovy Mule thinks when he hears about donations being made to help out the survivors is something his uncle The Swanky Mule used to say: "you don't throw good money after bad."
I find this idea lacks any compassion or support for the thousands of innocent victims of this natural disaster, and if followed or encouraged would logically result in further needless death & suffering.

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On one side of the coin, in this day of instantaneous communication, television, satellites, cellphones, and abbreviated semaphore, anyone who stands on the shore of any area within strike range of the tsunami needs to be swept out to sea.
This statement is not only, once again, lacking in compassion, but also implies an individual knowledge of the people and circumstances that cannot be accurately determined from the information presented.
In short, it is a gross and ignorant generalization.

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Likewise, there's a rule in nature that says whenever there are too many critters in one area, Mother Nature will find a way to reduce the population... every time.
Relegating the high human death toll to a natural culling is in effect reducing the value of each human life lost. If this immense loss of life had occurred in the US, I wonder if this same cold principle would be applied.

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But...let's not be so cruel.
As it is the ideas from one individual poster that denote cruelty, the plural notion here is obviously misleading. Also, as the cruelty appears intentional, this remark would suggest a lack of remorse for anything offensive.

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Don't worry...etiquitte only works for those who don't look down their nose their fellow posters. You're immune...remember?
One would think it also applies to those who don't look down their nose at the suffering of their fellow human beings. Your immunity appears to be working well in that regard.

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With the death toll over 80,000 always keep in mind that those people breed like rats and will have the overpopulation crisis back on track in no time.
The inherent racism in this flippant idea is offensive to not only "those people" that have suffered/are suffering in this disaster, but also to the readers/members of this board who are of South-East Asian heritage, as well as everyone here that opposes racism in whatever form it takes.

#56 Kevin Street

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 05:54 AM

Yes, The Groovy Mule's comments were way out of line and offensive, but let's not let that derail the thread.

#57 Godeskian

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 05:58 AM

Hear hear.

On a better note, the BBC reports that Britains have collected over 5 million in charity for the people in the affected area. That's more than a third of what the UK goverment is sending, and the amount is likely to climb signifigantly in the next few days.

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#58 Yama

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 10:08 AM

AndromedaAbyss, on Dec 30 2004, 03:06 AM, said:

I have read all the comments here, and this is in response to those accused of being *stingy*.

It's your choice guys and however you want to view the world....
AndromedaAbyss, from my point of view, you've hit the nail on the head.  It should be a choice but when you start arguing for government intervention -- for the government to use it's "police powers" to tax you for to give to others, no matter how needy they may be -- it no longer is a choice.

Personally, I have given more than $5.  Plus blood (indeed, I'm a semi-regular [two or three times a year] blood donor at the Red Cross).  So yes, I take personal offense at anyone suggesting that I should or even want to pay more taxes and then imply that I am "stingy" or "not compassionate" or whatever because I don't want to spend MY money -- what I have earned by my hardwork and sacrifice -- in was that they think I should.

And yes, I am personally offended with such thinking even when it is in "response" to a disaster of the magnitude as the recent devistations in Asia.
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#59 Godeskian

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 10:14 AM

For what it's worth, I tend to agree. people should have the right to spend their money their way, however one aspect of a goverment is to decide what to do with the money it collects from it's citizens in ways that help and improve it's own standing and that of it's people.

One could, I believe make a fairly good argument about how helping those in need tends to make others more compassionate to your own troubles. So I have no problem with goverments deciding it's in their own best interests to help.

However, as the UK has shown, individuals can easily be very given if they believe it's for a good cause.

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#60 waterpanther

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Posted 30 December 2004 - 11:00 AM

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Is that in referance to me or The Groovy Mule?


It most definitely wasn't in reference to you, AndromedaAbyss, or to anyone else who gives what he or she can.  (That's you, G1223.)

But in reference to aid being pledged by the federal government--all wealthy nations actually have line items in their budgets for foreign/humanitarian aid.  When disasters like the tsunami strike, that's where the money comes from. It's not a matter of robbing Peter to pay Paul;  it's money that's been allocated to Paul in the first place.  

And G1223, the fact is that unless one is going to load up one's own C-5 and fly it into the disaster area, money given for relief has to go through some agency.  The government is one of many such conduits.  Just personally, I'd rather my tax dollars go to save lives in Indonesia than to destroy them in Iraq.  I'd rather it send doctors into Sri Lanka than loggers into pristine forests.  I'd rather rebuild homes in India than pay corporations to take American jobs overseas.  Taking any money out of those budgets--if we were talking about robbing Peter--and turning it to good would be fine with me.

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