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What Became of Conservatives?

Politics-American Conservatives Neo-cons

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#61 Ogami

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 09:38 PM

I'm sorry to disappoint anyone, but I consider no one on this or any other message board to be my enemy. That is an important distinction if someone thinks of me as their enemy, the sentiment is not reciprocated in any way. I do not hate anyone who disagrees with my politics, although I know that is a rare view.

As Nixon often said, "Always remember others may hate you but those who hate you don't win unless you hate them. And then you destroy yourself."

That will never be the case. And frankly, I would need something deeper than "I hate Bush so I hate anyone who doesn't hate Bush" to consider someone my intellectual equal and possible enemy. Sorry, nothing I've seen raises my "enemies" up to that level.

-Ogami

Edited by Ogami, 09 January 2005 - 09:41 PM.


#62 Nick

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 09:39 PM

Although my last post was in direct response to zwolf, it applies to everyone here.  We as a community have gone over baiting, generalizations, and personal attacks ad nauseum.  There are examples of all of them in this very thread.

If someone baits, makes an incendiary generalization, or a personal attack--it is still unacceptible for others to do so.  Please do not respond in kind.   Add the offending person to your ignore list, disregard their post completely, leave the thread--whatever you feel is the best course of action.  But don't retaliate.

There are many individuals who, by nature of their personalities, are unable or unwilling to "back down from a fight".  If this is the case, please do not post in threads that are likely to get you into fights.  If you can't keep the discourse civil and follow our guidelines, then please don't post at all.

-Nick

#63 Yama

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 09:42 PM

waterpanther, on Jan 10 2005, 01:39 AM, said:

They might have been called "traditionalist" conservatives at the time, and certainly that would have been accurate if a "traditionalist" conservative is one who takes the Constitution seriously.  And bearing in mind that "liberal" and "conservative" are inevitably relative terms, they were no doubt "liberal" in comparison to the "conservative" Democrats who stood against civil rights.   In fact, the white South has always been conservative; it merely changed its party affiliation when Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act.  Indeed, many of today's more conservative Republican luminaries, such as Trent Lott, got their political start as racist Democrats.
And many of them have remained Democrats.  Such as former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard Robert Byrd.  Who was still heard using the "n-word" a couple of years ago.

And you're still missing my point.  I am saying that many of those same White "conservative" held legitimate positions similar to the positions that I hold now.  Barry Goldwater -- someone whom we both evidently admire -- was not the only conservative, Republican or otherwise, who opposed some civil rights legislation or judicial rulings for non-racist reasons.

Indeed, as I have mentioned previously in other threads, even that great Supreme Court ruling of Brown v. Board of Education was (and still is) vilified by many African-Americans.  Look at some of my posts in earlier threads that I reference above or a good, non-technical legal book such as Integration or Separation?: A Strategy for Racial Equality by Roy L. Brooks.

waterpanther, on Jan 10 2005, 01:39 AM, said:

At the risk of shocking you, I have to admit to admiring Barry Goldwater.  As some of his earlier detractors came to say, he eventually seemed less psychotic than psychic on a number of issues.  It's also worth noting that the current crop of radical conservatives in the Republican party repudiates Goldwater as a liberal for his stance for gay rights on the one hand and his stance against the takeover of the party by religious fundamentalists on the other.
Thank you for telling me how "the current crop of radical conservatives in the Republican party" repudiate Goldwater, especially when on most positions I would be considered a "radical conservative" and I do not repudiate Goldwater even as I disagreed with him on abortion and gay rights and the like.

To be honest, waterpanther, that statement makes you as guilty of stereotyping as you accuse Ogami of being.

waterpanther, on Jan 10 2005, 01:39 AM, said:

Yama, on Jan 10 2005, 12:59 AM, said:

]As a former White liberal colleague said to me and another African-American friend of mine when he found out that we were now conservatives, "How dare you become conservative after all we've done for you."

And by the way, that is literally a verbatim quote.

Oh Lord.  Another village missing its idiot.  I have met some stupid, offensive and thoroughly patronizing fellow liberals in my time, but yours takes the prize.

I've been an activist in various causes since I was eighteen.  I have to say, with respect, that my experience does not mirror yours in terms of conservative support.  While there have been times I have found my fellow liberals obtuse, I have not found them obstructionist, sometimes to the point of violence, as conservatives have been.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, my experience -- which I would hazard to guess is just as long and extensive as your own -- has been different.  But I will say that, remember, we are travelling down different roads.  You're mentioning your experience as you (still  :love:) agree with liberals while I'm mentioning my experience while I disagree with them.

The one thing I will add is that I am willing to bet that if you, "a Native American/Hispanic mix," expressed to your politically-liberal, White American friends that you have become conservative and see what they then say about you.

In fact, I'll go one step further.  When I still considered myself a liberal but pro-life, I remember contacting the head of a group called Feminist for Life.  Now Feminist for Life is a very left-wing organization except that they are pro-life.  You name the issue and except for abortion, they take the more liberal side position.  Now about twenty years ago or more, I was taking to the then head of the organization (sorry that I cannot remember her name) and I remember her saying that she had more trouble and arguments with the liberals she agreed with on everything but abortion than she did with the conservatives she disagreed with on everything but abortion.  As a good liberal at the time, I couldn't believe her.  I mean, we used to argue to no end about that.  But from personal experience, I must also say that I have had more heated and personal arguments with my former fellow liberals than I ever had with conservatives.

And no, although I am gving you a verbatim quote, the aforementioned White liberal colleague was by no means the only White liberal activist to express "disappointment" and anger at me and other Black conservatives for holding non-conservative views.  Indeed, the one thing that all of us Black conservatives can agree upon -- and despite rumors you may have heard to the contrary, we are not all one monolithic group -- is that there are an awful lot of White liberals out there who take a personal animus against Black conservatives.

In fact, if we haven't gotten far enough off topic yet, look at the recent comments by Senator Harry Reid of Nevada regarding Justice Clarence Thomas vis-a-vis Justice Antonin Scalia.  Whether you agree with him or not, Justice Thomas has written some of the most powerful opinions of the Court in recent years (sidebar: my personal favorite being his concurring opinion in Missouri v. Jenkins (93-1823), 515 U.S. 70 (1995)).  I find it interesting that Senator Reid can admire Scalia's opinions even as he disagrees with him but find Thomas' opinions "disgraceful."  Especially when they share very similar judicial philosophies (Thomas probably being slightly more differential to precedent and the First Amendment but it being a difference, if any, of degree and not kind).  I confess that even many liberals and, IMHO, Leftist organizations such as the People for the American Way -- though, unfortunately, not all -- found Reid statements "interesting" and took umbrage with them.
Straight, conservative, capitalist and pro-life African-American Christian.  Any Questions?

#64 Chipper

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 10:26 PM

G said:

Quote

Zwolf am I am not pointing at you. I am pointing at comments like Nonny and Chipper who are posting just to make personal attacks.

I am going to take issue with this.  First, however, I will apologize if you feel I am personally atacking you.  That is not my intent.  You will notice if you want that in my second post to you, I actually tried to start a little conversation that was fully normal.  I am pleasantly surprised by how civil this thread has been, on the whole.  

The major thing I may have done was the HAHAHHAHAHA in response to Ogami's comment about debate.  Becuase in my mind, it is ridiculous.  zwolf is much more eloquent than I am (plus more educated) so I'd rather leave the talk to him at this point.  I am personally sick of the insults and generalizations Ogami has made (he has accused me of being unpatriotic in another thread, and I do not take kindly to that).

The fact of the matter is, we all are guilty of making inflammatory and generalizing comments about others.  This is the first thread that has been civil on the whole.  And I am trying now to do my part to keep it that way.

So, again, I apologize to you if I insulted you here (and yes, there have been instances in the past; you know how this plae gets heated...and some of my attitude comes from my age as well) or elsewhere.

- Chipper
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

- Jenny Smith on Usenet, via Jid, via Kathy

#65 Bad Wolf

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 10:33 PM

Nick, on Jan 9 2005, 06:39 PM, said:

Although my last post was in direct response to zwolf, it applies to everyone here.  We as a community have gone over baiting, generalizations, and personal attacks ad nauseum.  There are examples of all of them in this very thread.

If someone baits, makes an incendiary generalization, or a personal attack--it is still unacceptible for others to do so.  Please do not respond in kind.   Add the offending person to your ignore list, disregard their post completely, leave the thread--whatever you feel is the best course of action.  But don't retaliate.

There are many individuals who, by nature of their personalities, are unable or unwilling to "back down from a fight".  If this is the case, please do not post in threads that are likely to get you into fights.  If you can't keep the discourse civil and follow our guidelines, then please don't post at all.

-Nick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I hope this doesn't mean what it sounds like it means which is that the initiator of the baiting, incendiary generalizations, or personal attacks is in the clear and the burden is on those responding to follow the above suggestions because it ain't gonna happen.

Lil
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#66 Nick

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Posted 09 January 2005 - 10:43 PM

^Not at all.

The initiator is not in the clear, and neither are those who continue the baiting, incendiary generalizations, attacks, etc.  Although, once someone starts something, the burden lies on everyone to refrain from continuing it.

My point is, once the "bad posts" start, they often devolve into free-for-alls.  None of it is acceptable.

-Nick

Edited by Nick, 09 January 2005 - 10:46 PM.


#67 G1223

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 01:17 AM

Chipper it is that you made an attack against another poster. And it's not the first time and it's not the first warning.  Ogami is far from one of my favorite people. In the past he has broken the rule,and was punished for it.

It is that the Mods seem capabil of punishing Ogami and myself but somehow are numerous warnings seem unable to go after anyone else. It is among the reasons I have nearly dropped the forum and the site as I have seen attacks against conservatives go unanswered ,and the attackers unpunished. Which leads one to think that there is a baised among the mods.

This has spread over multiple threads and it seems to be out of hand.
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If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

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#68 Bouree57

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 04:16 AM

waterpanther, on Jan 9 2005, 03:40 PM, said:

Quote

But to call this particular viewpoint "sane" implies that anything outside this opinion is "insane". There have been opinions posted from both sides of the fence that see this as an extreme position. So I'm asking you, one poster to another, to please reconsider including the word sane in your subtitle.

Actually, Bouree, it's not so much Mr. Roberts' viewpoint I'm calling "sane" as it is Mr. Roberts.  The same applies, for instance, to my reading of Col. Hackworth.  There are things I disagree with him about, such as the position of women in the armed forces--and the same can be said of Mr. Roberts--but both men state their positions fairly and honestly and back them up.  It's possible to disagree with these gentlemen while acknowledging that we perceive the same reality.  We just have different opinions on the best way to deal with it.  They're honest representatives of their conservative philosophy, and Col. Hackworth has my added respect for having  been dead-on-target right about the Iraq war every time.  
I understand that it is your opinion and you certainly have a right to that. I just feel that as a subtitle it is misleading and, considering the article, a bit baiting to conservatives that disagree with Roberts. But I acknowledge that I'm probably the only one who has taken exception to the term and I have no problem dropping the issue.

Quote

I think Mr. Roberts is equally dead-on-target right about certain conservative factions in his article I've posted here.   Take the Christian Reconstructionist/Dominionist movement.  These folks not only want to practice their faith freely, as every American should be able to do, but they want to impose it as a nationally established religion.  Scrap the Constitution and replace it with their notion of Biblical law.  Reinstitute debt slavery.  Stone adulterers (or at least adulteresses) to death.  Make homosexuality a capital crime. 
This goes to the heart of what I don't like about Roberts article. He takes a common idea or fact and pushes it to an extreme. Do some Christians see the war in Iraq as a sign to end times? Well of course. But they see every war that way. They see most of the nightly news that way. That's a part of their religious viewpoint and not all of them are conservatives. I live in a very liberal county in Oklahoma. Most Christians here do talk about "end times" but they are very liberal. So his remarks don't have anything to do with conservative vs. liberal.

Quote

And that's just the appetizer.  Because the ultimate focus of this movement is to create the conditions for the Second Coming of Christ.  That means fomenting a world war in the Middle East so the so called Battle of Armageddon can be fought between the forces of "Righteousness" and those of the Anti-Christ.   We're talking nuclear holocaust here, not just some little regional dust-up.  So these people have no care for the environment because it's all going up in smoke anyway.  No care for alleviating human misery because the miserable (the brown and black and non-Christian miserable, at least) are all going to hell anyway.  No care for maintaining peace in the world because that just puts off The Big One that will elevate them to Christ's right hand as judges and rulers of the world.

Now--you tell me that doesn't need a nice big dose of Thorazine.  It is not sane.  It's nowhere freaking near sane. 
Certainly purposely creating the conditions for the "end times" is very "fringe". But I still don't see this as a conservative vs. liberal issue.

Quote

And it's worse only in degree, not in kind, from the sort of stuff that is spewed out every day on Rushbo's radio broadcast or Freak Republic or on Tweety Matthews' Gumball by the likes of Ann Coulter.  You remember Ann--she's the one who wants the US to invade all Arab nations, kill all the men and convert the remaining women and children to Christianity at the point of a gun. 

I'm frankly relieved to see someone like Mr. Roberts speaking out against the nutjob right.  It means, I hope, that sane conservatives are making an effort to get control of the Republican Party again.  Because if they don't, we're looking fascism straight in the face.
Both sides have nutjobs. I don't listen to any of those you mentioned, they tend to try and tell everyone what our opinions are and I have no need for that. I'm a very opinionated person and need no help forming them.

Yama, on 1-8-05, 7:59pm, said:

Indeed, Barry Goldwater, who did oppose the Civil Rights Act of 1964, opposed it for what turned out to be legitimate reasons: that it would lead to a sort of racial spoils system and would unlawfully (or at least, unwisely) extend the power of the Federal governemnt. While I disagree with the inevitability of Goldwater's position I am forced to admit to the prescience of his position. Although I have my issues with the NAACP, I will also acknowledge that Goldwater was a founding member of the Arizona branch and proudly signed the 1957 and 1960 Civil Rights Acts.

As a relevant sidenote, as quiet as it is kept by both sides, it was actually the Republican Richard Nixon (who is my personal pick for the worst President in the Twentieth Century) who gave us explicit racial quotas with his Philadelphia Plan of 1969.
I agree with your pick that Richard Nixon is the worst President in the Twentieth century, but I'm not sure that much change would have happened without racial quotas or even with whatever flaws the Civil Rights Act of 1964 had. It takes a great deal to change the mindset of us silly humans. Bigotry was a cancer that required strong medicine and a great deal of time to overcome. What were minorities supposed to do in the mean time? I just think that it was necessary to force equality for a limited time till the social morales caught up with the needs of minorities. None of these laws or acts were written in concrete. But you do what you have to do till the changes becomes the norm. We haven't cured bigotry by any means but maybe we can remove a few IMO necessary bandaids.

It's possible that there were better paths we could have taken to reach where we are today but I don't think any of them would have been any easier or any faster.

-- B
My words but a whisper, your deafness a shout!
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#69 Zwolf

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 07:55 AM

Sent ya a PM, Nick, because I don't want to make your job harder with public policy discussions.   Sorry for the problem, but it's all explained in the PM.

The only public statement I'll make about the issue is - I consider "just ignoring" the kind of things Ogami's been saying to be dangerous.   As much as he'd like to pretend that the issues that people have with him are just based on his political stance, that's not the case.   There's a lot of conservatives on this board, and so far I've seen plenty I might disagree with on some issues, but none that I'd consider an enemy or have any enmity toward.  I've even commended a few, because I liked their posts.  They're presenting their arguments intelligently without a bunch of hateful, vilifying rhetoric attached, and don't seem to have the need to see their opposition as monsters in order to win an argument.  I wouldn't want to attack that, because that's the kind of thing I'd like to see more of.

  If I'm going to be guilty of something where the kind of accusations that have been levied are involved, I'd rather be guilty of  confrontation than complacency.   Some guilt is easier to live with than others, and some prices I'm more willing to pay than others.  

If you would like me to take my concerns to a moderator first, then I'll comply with that, or any other workable plan.   I'll do my best to work with any plan except "just ignoring" or avoiding someone claiming that me-and-everybody-like-me loves it when our troops die, or was delighted by Abu Grahib, or any of that brand of stuff.  Didn't work in Warsaw, won't work anywhere.  

Cheers,

Zwolf
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And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
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There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
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Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
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Trying to talk to you."
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#70 Nonny

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 11:32 AM

G1223, on Jan 9 2005, 06:08 PM, said:

Zwolf am I am not pointing at you. I am pointing at comments like Nonny and Chipper who are posting just to make personal attacks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Stop it.  Stop it right now.  Stop lying about me.  Stop lying about my motives for posting.  I do not make personal attacks, in fact I go out of my way to reread my posts and often edit them to avoid personal attacks.  

At a moderator's request, some months ago, I eased off on you.  Though my responses to you were never personal attacks, I did comment on your spelling and syntax.  This was offensive to the moderator, so I stopped, though I disagreed on the nature of those comments.  My comments were designed to request clarification of your often confusing posts, not to state covertly that I think that anyone who can't spell and can't write a clear sentence is a moron.  

I was also touched when you posted in support of me when I was being personally attacked by a troll.  So now I am asking you, and I am asking as one who would rather not be tempted to get nasty, to back off and stop assigning motives to me, since you obviously have no clue as to what I am thinking or how my thought processes work.

Thanks so much.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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#71 Nonny

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 11:50 AM

Chipper, on Jan 9 2005, 07:26 PM, said:

...and some of my attitude comes from my age as well....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since I was laughing right along with you, I feel that I should point out that I'm a heck of a lot older than you are.  Either I'm young at heart, you're mature beyond your years, or it was a matter of ageless truth that stuck us both as funny.  ;)

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#72 G1223

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 06:17 PM

Edited at the request

Edited by G1223, 10 January 2005 - 08:59 PM.

If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

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#73 Nonny

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 06:25 PM

G1223, on Jan 10 2005, 03:17 PM, said:

This was to me a personal attack at another poster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then you are mistaken.  It was not a personal attack.  

G1223, on Jan 10 2005, 03:17 PM, said:

And in another thread your entire post was about Ogami and his lack of success about enlisting or reenlisting into the army.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Provide proof.  Which post?  Where?  

G1223, on Jan 10 2005, 03:17 PM, said:

So dear lady I can only take you at your words. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And my words are that I was not making a personal attack.  Your insistance that I was is as phony as your addressing me as "dear" and "lady."

G1223, on Jan 10 2005, 03:17 PM, said:

If anyone is lying to me it seems to be you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope, still you, though I will accept that you're not doing it on purpose, but are merely mistaken.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#74 G1223

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 06:37 PM

Dec 23 in the soldiers grill Rummy thread.   You and Balderdash were among those making attacks at Ogami.

Edited by G1223, 10 January 2005 - 06:57 PM.

If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#75 Nonny

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 06:45 PM

G1223, on Jan 10 2005, 03:37 PM, said:

Dec 23 in the soldiers grill Rummy thread.   You are Balderdash were among those making attacks at Ogami.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will assume that you mean "and" instead of "are," but whether you do or not, you are still mistaken.  I joined with another poster at laughing at him, but I made no personal attack.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#76 G1223

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 06:56 PM

And that is not a personal attack? If I sent a PM to you about such a thing and we did not put the PM out for general consumption then I would agree. But you joined in to cause Ogami a bit of humiliation. That is a personal attack.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#77 Nonny

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 07:00 PM

Would a moderator please step in here?  I'm getting tired of defending myself against unfair accusations of lying and of making personal attacks.  

Thanks.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#78 Chipper

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 07:21 PM

G1223, on Jan 10 2005, 01:17 AM, said:

Chipper it is that you made an attack against another poster. And it's not the first time and it's not the first warning.  Ogami is far from one of my favorite people. In the past he has broken the rule,and was punished for it.

It is that the Mods seem capabil of punishing Ogami and myself but somehow are numerous warnings seem unable to go after anyone else. It is among the reasons I have nearly dropped the forum and the site as I have seen attacks against conservatives go unanswered ,and the attackers unpunished. Which leads one to think that there is a baised among the mods.

This has spread over multiple threads and it seems to be out of hand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


oy.  I tried.  I really did.  I apologized to you.  Now did what has just transpired above HAVE to happen?  Seriously.

G, BOTH sides have made attacks.  I apologized for it, to you, personally.  I will not apologize to Ogami because of what he has said to me (and I have NEVER called ANYONE I have argued against unpatriotic and anti-American and all the rest of the BS he has spewed in the last few months).

Whenever a post of mine has crossed the line, I have been PM'd by both mods and watchdogs.  I have the PM's saved, if you don't believe me.  So don't go assuming that they are playing favorites.  THey have no reason to play favorites, especially with me, because I am nothing to them.

THe fact is, I despise it when there are some really really overt generalizations made, in particular obviously those made towards anyone not supporting Bush.  You are guilty of that as well in other threads, and of course I am guilty of responding in some instances.  

Now, I'd rather drop this than continue it.  I did my part; I apologized.  Take it or leave it, but let's not start a huge argument over an apology.
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

- Jenny Smith on Usenet, via Jid, via Kathy

#79 Nick

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 07:21 PM

Stepping in . . .

G, this thread has nothing to do w/ the Rummy Kuwait one--please back off from Nonny.  The closest thing I can see to Nonny making it a personal attack is a single line in the post you quoted, which I'll ask to be edited out in the interests of balance.

Now, this thread has already resulted in two posters receiving one-week suspensions.  I don't want the admins to issue any more.  Let's all calm down, and keep this from escalating into something worse.

Thanks

-Nick

#80 Nonny

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Posted 10 January 2005 - 08:23 PM

Thanks, Nick.  I made the edit you requested.  

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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

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