Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

MLK Day Racial Slur Incident

Media TV MLK Racial slur Weatherman KTNV-TV

  • Please log in to reply
59 replies to this topic

#41 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 18 January 2005 - 10:54 PM

Look here; DWF posted a link to a website called "CarStuck", but titled the thread "CarStruck" instead! That rat basstard is advocating striking pedestrians with cars! :sarcasm:

#42 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 18 January 2005 - 11:19 PM

Handmaiden wrote:

Why'd you buy that? Anyway, I agree with your last two sentences, wholeheartedly.

I liked DMX's song "X Gonna Give it to You" from the Cradle 2 the Grave soundtrack. His latest album (2003) has a number of good songs, "F--- y'all" is apparently intended as a laugh. DMX has a sense of humor throughout much of his music.

I just don't dare sing along to his songs while driving along the highway.

-Ogami

#43 Rockhound

Rockhound

    I've seen so much "spin" I'm getting drunk!

  • Islander
  • 201 posts

Posted 18 January 2005 - 11:47 PM

Handmaiden07, on Jan 18 2005, 09:42 PM, said:

As I read it - MLK Sr's name was Martin, but he was called Michael for no apparent reason (although that too was common).  Intending to name his child after himself, the doctor wrote down "Michael" because that's what he was accustomed to calling MLK Sr.  But no one ever called Martin "Michael" - his birth certificate just says that.

Ok, so that's the second story I've heard explaining his faux name.  I hate to break this to you, but a birth certificate is a legal document.  As far as the government was concerned, his name was Michael.

OTOH, the FBI was really interested in him, and they called him Martin, so there's some hope. Acting FBI Director L. Patrick Gray was asked many years later about the FBI investigation about King.  His reply was "there were approximately 15 file cabinets of evidence on King: 14 of them were full of recordings and transcripts of his illicit relationships with prostitutes. Only one file cabinet contained evidence of his Communist relationships. "

So, he wasn't much of a Commie, but he really loved the hookers.  Wasn't it just a year or so ago that King's widow asked those records be surpressed because they might damage King's legacy?  So much for the truth.

Quote

Regarding the plagarism business - I've read about it, but without doing a text by text comparison, I don't know how much was plagarized, and what it meant.... I do know that black preachers tend to borrow stuff quite liberally - its part of the culture to share sermons and the like - there are even some sermons that are famous, and other preachers preach them almost verbatim with their own special twist on it.  Those sermons have names associated with them, so that a minister could know which one he was using, and amongst ministers, they could talk fluently about which sermon worked well on Sunday.  I would assume that it isn't the same when it comes to writing books, and that Dr. King would know better - but I don't know that for certain.  I do know that he isn't known for books - he's known for his life.

The FBI sure knows about his life.  

As to his books, he's pretty plain in them what he wanted.  Remember his comments about children of all colors holding hands?  Apparently those hands were supposed to be passing money.  Here's a quote from his book Why We Can't Wait?:

Quote

No amount of gold could provide an adequate compensation for the exploitation and humiliation of the Negro in America down through the centuries…Yet a price can be placed on unpaid wages. The ancient common law has always provided a remedy for the appropriation of a the labor of one human being by another. This law should be made to apply for American Negroes. The payment should be in the form of a massive program by the government of special, compensatory measures which could be regarded as a settlement in accordance with the accepted practice of common law.

Quote

As to his gifted doctorate - so what?  Many people who perform great humanitarian works get honorary degrees - and they are entitled thereby to call themselves Dr.  Again - in context - that kind of honor was not frequently bestowed on Blacks at the time... I am very glad that Dr. King earned an honorary degree and assumed the title, instead of just treating it like nothing - it established a sense of pride in the black community.

Well, I didn't say anything about a gift doctorate...heck, you can drop $40 at the universal church of life and get one of those, so big deal.  I'm talking about the one he supposedly earned. If you'll follow the link I provided in my other post, you'll get an idea of the amount of plagiarism involved.

But here it is again, in case you missed it: http://chem-gharbiso...plagiarism.html

To answer your question though, Boston University found that the amount of plagiarism was 45% of the first part and 21% of the second part.  Black culture...white culture...it's still plagiarism.

Now let's get real.  The man doesn't deserve his own day...not by a long shot.  There are others who did far more for civil rights for blacks than this loser.  Truman integrated the Armed Forces over massive protests.  Eisenhower enforced Brown v BOE.  Kennedy...well, Johnny would have done a lot for civil rights had he not caught two at Dealey Plaza, but his heart was in the right place.  Johnson carried Kennedy's legacy.  All of these guys made solid contributions that bettered black life in the US...none of them have their own day...and that's probably because they were all white, IMHO.
"Wow. This is a ga'damn greek tragedy." ---Rockhound

#44 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,353 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 12:35 AM

Is that the source of this hostility - that Dr. King has a day named in his honor? What would be better in your view?  A civil rights day?  Or is any kind of honoring of the civil rights struggle worthy of heaping all manner of malignment, in your view?

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#45 Norville

Norville
  • Islander
  • 4,502 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 12:39 AM

tennyson said:

Maybe it says something about race relations that I had never heard of this derogatory term at all until I saw it on this website or it may just say something about the kind of sheltered life I had, it could be either or both.

Maybe both? It's either my age (30+) that causes me to know this term, or it's because I suffered from "Texan grandfatheritis" ;) and, therefore, heard many stupid stories about him over the years, including all the things he called blacks, "c**n" being among them.
"The dew has fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning."
- Marvin the Paranoid Android, "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/

#46 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 12:41 AM

I'm trying to figure out what the issue of MLK's name or degree has to do with this person's obviously racist comment.  Seems like a classic case of deflection:  turn attention from the racism by attacking the object of the racism.  

:Oo:
Posted Image

#47 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,353 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 12:47 AM

Perhaps the relevance is in the hostility to the idea of a MLK Day.  If indeed the comment was racist - the hostility of the comment comes on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.  Someone who hates the fact that there is a Martin Luther King Jr. Day could also be someone who would say something along the lines of "Have a nice Martin Luther C**n Jr. Day."

I say "if" in respect to the possibility that there is another way of looking at this - that the weatherman was not racist, and only made a slip of the tongue.  If that's the case, then there's no relevance at all.  

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#48 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 12:52 AM

What possible motivation could there be for hostility to the idea of an MLK day unless it's racially motivated?  

And I don't for a NY (or any other municipality) minute buy the notion that the comment was anything but racist.  Even if it was a slip of the tongue it was a slip because it was on the tongue in the first place.

Lil
Posted Image

#49 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 12:54 AM

Handmaiden07, on Jan 19 2005, 12:47 AM, said:

Perhaps the relevance is in the hostility to the idea of a MLK Day.  If indeed the comment was racist - the hostility of the comment comes on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.  Someone who hates the fact that there is a Martin Luther King Jr. Day could also be someone who would say something along the lines of "Have a nice Martin Luther C**n Jr. Day."

I say "if" in respect to the possibility that there is another way of looking at this - that the weatherman was not racist, and only made a slip of the tongue.  If that's the case, then there's no relevance at all. 

HM07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There are other reasons, besides racism, to dislike MLK day. For example, my best friend happens to work for the city. Now the city gives it's employees a day off on MLK day, to celebrate the holiday...but the price for that was that those same city employees no longer have veteran's day off. You tell me which is more important of a holiday? A single person who was a major factor in civil rights, or, honoring all those who have given their lives in protecting our very freedoms.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#50 Rockhound

Rockhound

    I've seen so much "spin" I'm getting drunk!

  • Islander
  • 201 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 01:06 AM

Handmaiden07, on Jan 18 2005, 11:35 PM, said:

Is that the source of this hostility - that Dr. King has a day named in his honor? What would be better in your view?  A civil rights day?  Or is any kind of honoring of the civil rights struggle worthy of heaping all manner of malignment, in your view?

HM07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hostility?  :dontgetit:

Well, if you mean I don't like a national holiday squandered on a human being not worthy of it by any stretch of the imagination, then I guess hostility sorta kinda fits.  I'd be more impressed if you actually address my points above without an ad hominem jibe at me.  :upside:

How about a day honoring the 14th Amendment...the original civil rights movement?  We could all have a moment of silence followed by a dramatic reading of the congressional members who ratified it. But to tell the truth, I dunno about a special day to say "well, once we were a stupid, evil bunch of racist swine, but we suddenly woke up."

Guess what?  The nation's full of stupid, evil racist swine...of all colors.

Edited by Rockhound, 19 January 2005 - 01:07 AM.

"Wow. This is a ga'damn greek tragedy." ---Rockhound

#51 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 02:11 AM

Rockhound, on Jan 19 2005, 01:06 AM, said:

Hostility?  :dontgetit:

Well, if you mean I don't like a national holiday squandered on a human being not worthy of it by any stretch of the imagination, then I guess hostility sorta kinda fits. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I know your comments weren't directed at me, but I have to say this. IMO, MLK jr does deserve to be an observed day. Perhaps not a holiday...I still think veterans day should be an observed holiday over MLK...but he does deserve some credit. Even though he was, more or less, a figurehead for the civil rights movement.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#52 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,353 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 09:36 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jan 19 2005, 12:54 AM, said:

Handmaiden07, on Jan 19 2005, 12:47 AM, said:

Perhaps the relevance is in the hostility to the idea of a MLK Day.  If indeed the comment was racist - the hostility of the comment comes on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.  Someone who hates the fact that there is a Martin Luther King Jr. Day could also be someone who would say something along the lines of "Have a nice Martin Luther C**n Jr. Day."

I say "if" in respect to the possibility that there is another way of looking at this - that the weatherman was not racist, and only made a slip of the tongue.  If that's the case, then there's no relevance at all. 

HM07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There are other reasons, besides racism, to dislike MLK day. For example, my best friend happens to work for the city. Now the city gives it's employees a day off on MLK day, to celebrate the holiday...but the price for that was that those same city employees no longer have veteran's day off. You tell me which is more important of a holiday? A single person who was a major factor in civil rights, or, honoring all those who have given their lives in protecting our very freedoms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


My apologies, LotS.  My wording was poor.  I didn't mean to imply that there were no other reasons not to like MLK day.  I meant to say that one who disliked MLK day may do so because of racism.  This was in response to Lil's question about the relevance of Dr. King's meriting or not of a holiday in the middle of this thread.  I did not mean to imply that that was the only reason a person may dislike the day.

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#53 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,353 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 09:49 AM

Rockhound, on Jan 19 2005, 01:06 AM, said:

Hostility?  :dontgetit:

Well, if you mean I don't like a national holiday squandered on a human being not worthy of it by any stretch of the imagination, then I guess hostility sorta kinda fits.  I'd be more impressed if you actually address my points above without an ad hominem jibe at me.  :upside:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There was no intent at ad hominem, so I apologize if I came across that way.

I did not wish to address your points any more than I've already done.  Dr. King's legacy doesn't stand on his scholarship, or his name, in my view.  What he did in the civil rights movement speaks for itself.  Your criticism of Dr. King's proposed reparations solution is fine - but it doesn't speak to any kind of reason to dislike the man personally.  Many blacks in this country feel that reparations are a necessary aspect of reconciliation for the injury of slavery and oppression of blacks in this country.  Many blacks in this country disagree with that assessment.  That's not the subject of this thread, however.  This thread is about a weatherman who called Martin Luther King "coon" either by accident or on purpose - on the day set aside to honor Dr. King's legacy.  

That your comments are hostile to Dr. King is pretty obvious.  There is no ad hominem there.  I am asking you what the source of your hostility is at this moment, because I'm trying to understand some of the reactions here.  I want to know, sincerely, why you feel a need to express hostility to Dr. King here.   I wanted to know if the issue was the fact that there is such a thing called Martin Luther King Jr. Day, or if you would have preferred a holiday honoring the entire civil rights movement, or if you feel that any kind of honoring of the civil rights movement with a national holiday is wrong.  My aim is not to cause argument and dissention, but to gain understanding of the differing opinions.

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#54 gaius claudius

gaius claudius

    I'm bringing the sexy back!!

  • Islander
  • 1,895 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 01:26 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jan 19 2005, 01:54 AM, said:

Handmaiden07, on Jan 19 2005, 12:47 AM, said:

Perhaps the relevance is in the hostility to the idea of a MLK Day.  If indeed the comment was racist - the hostility of the comment comes on Martin Luther King Jr. Day.  Someone who hates the fact that there is a Martin Luther King Jr. Day could also be someone who would say something along the lines of "Have a nice Martin Luther C**n Jr. Day."

I say "if" in respect to the possibility that there is another way of looking at this - that the weatherman was not racist, and only made a slip of the tongue.  If that's the case, then there's no relevance at all. 

HM07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There are other reasons, besides racism, to dislike MLK day. For example, my best friend happens to work for the city. Now the city gives it's employees a day off on MLK day, to celebrate the holiday...but the price for that was that those same city employees no longer have veteran's day off. You tell me which is more important of a holiday? A single person who was a major factor in civil rights, or, honoring all those who have given their lives in protecting our very freedoms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I would guess the answer to that question would depend specifically on who you are.I generally have to work both those holidays, so I really don't feel that bad for your friend..

For a lot of us who were  there or whose parents were there during the civil rights movement...figure head or not (and figure heads canbe vital to thelife or death of a movement) the depth of feeling we (i.e. most african americans) have for the man is without peer.  And in no way does it take away my feeling for vets...


Quote

Well, if you mean I don't like a national holiday squandered on a human being not worthy of it by any stretch of the imagination, then I guess hostility sorta kinda fits

That's a pretty massive statement..that's full of ire (you can't use the words squandered  and not worthy..and then be suprised that people call you hostile towards  MLK and the movement)
   If you have a legitimate beef..fine..state it...we can debate some more..and then move on..


gc   :devil:
“I seek the truth...it is only persistence in self-delusion and ignorance that does harm.”
- Marcus Aurelius

King Mob 42

#55 Cardie

Cardie

    I'm a very *good* tailor

  • Administrator
  • 22,654 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 01:59 PM

Here in the south, from which LotS also hails, there was a lot of reluctance from the usual suspects to approve state and local holidays for MLK day.  When there was enough pressure to have the holiday, many states and localities approved it with passive aggressively attached conditions designed to undermine the day's observance.  I'm gathering that where LotS's friend works, someone wanted to assert that MLK day made us slight the respect due our veterans.

Here in South Carolina, after much foot-dragging, a King holiday only passed when it was grouped with two other holidays, with all state employees allowed to choose any one on which to be off.  The excuse was that state work would get done on all three days.  The choice, however, was among Memorial Day, Confederate Memorial Day, and MLK Day.  I'm pretty sure the legislature figured they'd made everyone happy: Yankees would take Memorial Day (originally a day set aside to honer Union dead of the Civil War), white southerners would take Confederate Memorial Day, and African-Americans would take MLK Day.

As a federal holiday, MLK Day does not cancel out any other federal holidays.  It is interesting that since Lincoln's and Washington's birthdays got consolidated into "President's Day," we only have two federal holidays in honor of individuals: Columbus Day and MLK Day.  Columbus Day has as many problems for opponents of CC as initiator of Native American genocide and Johnny-Come-Lately as MLK Day does for opponents of Dr. King.  Perhaps we really should honor events and not individuals.

Cardie
Nothing succeeds like excess.

#56 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 04:13 PM

Here's the skinny on King's name, plagiarism, communism, and women from Snopes:

http://www.snopes.co...rage/mlking.asp

My take, briefly, is the name confusion is understandable; the charges of academic plagiarism are serious (not so much the "I have a dream" speech--which was extemporaneous and did contain echoes of Archibald's speech but King sure improved it); allegations of communism were typical Hoover witch-hunting, and so was the womanizing, but it was a flaw.

Was King a perfect human being? Nope. But he did far more to make this country better for all people, white and black, than just about anyone I can think of. He pressed the issue, took the heat, and suffered the ultimate consequences. Most importantly, if you read his writings, he never allowed himself to become bitter, never gave up on his faith in our ability to transcend the pettiness of racism. That in itself is a remarkable accomplishment considering the antagonism he faced--and apparently still exists in some quarters.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#57 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,149 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 04:46 PM

I can accept Snopes stuff.


LOS. I get both days off!!! State employee.
Can't Touch This!!

#58 Rockhound

Rockhound

    I've seen so much "spin" I'm getting drunk!

  • Islander
  • 201 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 09:56 PM

To avoid further derailment, this thread hives off here: http://www.exisle.ne...t=0#entry510918
"Wow. This is a ga'damn greek tragedy." ---Rockhound

#59 Lord of the Sword

Lord of the Sword
  • Islander
  • 15,681 posts

Posted 19 January 2005 - 10:07 PM

Handmaiden07, on Jan 19 2005, 09:36 AM, said:

My apologies, LotS.  My wording was poor.  I didn't mean to imply that there were no other reasons not to like MLK day.  I meant to say that one who disliked MLK day may do so because of racism.  This was in response to Lil's question about the relevance of Dr. King's meriting or not of a holiday in the middle of this thread.  I did not mean to imply that that was the only reason a person may dislike the day.

HM07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That's alright. No offense taken. You're correct also...some may dislike MLK day because of racism...just as others may dislike it for other reasons. I don't think my friend dislikes it...he just doesn't like the fact that they had to give up having Veterans day off...Why the city doesn't give its employees both holidays off is beyond me.


Kosh said:

LOS. I get both days off!!! State employee.

Showoff  ;)
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#60 eechick

eechick
  • Islander
  • 4,219 posts

Posted 21 January 2005 - 12:41 AM

Cardie, on Jan 19 2005, 10:59 AM, said:

Confederate Memorial Day
When is this?



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Media, TV, MLK, Racial slur, Weatherman, KTNV-TV

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users