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#61 Nonny

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:51 PM

Spectacles, on Jan 28 2005, 02:44 PM, said:

My problem with the argument that some people are simply following God's commands by calling homosexuality "immoral" is that they seem to be awfully selective in which commands they follow. It's OK for men to cut their sideburns, people to wear clothes of mixed fabrics, eat shellfish, etc. Not many Christians would readily kill their children for cursing them. Yet the admonition for the Old Testament Jews not to engage in homosexual acts (with men) like the pagans (who cut their hair funny, ate shellfish, and engaged in homosexual acts during some temple worship ceremonies) still flies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My big problem with picking and choosing is that so many conservatives who condemn homosexuals because of some verse in Leviticus are divorced and remarried in spite of Jesus's words in the Gospel of Matthew.  Ronald Reagan, Newt Gingrich, Bob Dole, Rush Limbaugh, all adulterers according to their own Bible.  

If I can find it I'll post it, but recently there was something published about divorce rates.  They're higher among fundamentalists than among atheists.  :blink:

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#62 DWF

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:53 PM

Well the official word is that Bob is in fact asexual

http://story.news.ya...re_spongebob_dc

Quote

SpongeBob SquarePants, the wacky cartoon character who sparked a gay alert warning by U.S. Christian conservative groups, is neither gay nor straight.

At least two Christian activist groups said the innocent and hugely popular cartoon character SpongeBob and his best mate Patrick Starfish are being exploited to promote the acceptance of homosexuality.

SpongeBob's creator, Stephen Hillenburg, 43, said the allegations are far-fetched and his agenda does not go beyond fun and entertainment.

"It doesn't have anything to do with what we're trying to do," Hillenburg told Reuters in an interview on Friday, two days before the Asian premiere of the SpongeBob SquarePants Movie in Singapore.

"We never intended them to be gay. I consider them to be almost asexual. We're just trying to be funny and this has got nothing to do with the show."

Naive SpongeBob, who lives in a pineapple under the Pacific Ocean, was "outed" by the U.S. media in 2002 after reports that the Nickelodeon TV show and its merchandise were popular with gays.

Influential U.S. radio evangelist James Dobson, among whose top political issues are opposition to same-sex marriage and abortion rights, said last week SpongeBob had been included in a "pro-homosexual video."

"Their inclusion of the reference to 'sexual identity' within their 'tolerance pledge' is not only unnecessary but it crosses a moral line," said Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family.

"MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES"

SpongeBob is one of the stars of a music video due to be sent to 61,000 U.S. schools in March. The makers -- the nonprofit We Are Family Foundation -- say the video is designed to encourage tolerance and diversity.

Hillenburg, a marine-science-teacher-turned-animator who lives in Hollywood and is married with a 6-year-old son, says he thinks there are "more important issues to worry about."

"I really don't pay much attention to this."

Such allegations were common in the history of cartoon and children's entertainment, he said.

"Just think of 'Laurel and Hardy' or 'Ernie and Bert'," he said, referring to two popular American comic icons -- the former from the 1930s and latter from the U.S. television series "Sesame Street."

In 1999, Britain's Teletubbies were cast into sexual controversy by a U.S. religious leader who warned parents to be alert to subtle messages from Tinky Winky, one of the four androgynous characters, singled out for his purple color and a triangular antenna on his head, both symbolising gay pride.

Nickelodeon, part of global media firm Viacom Inc., has made 60 episodes since SpongeBob's birth in 1996 and is working on another 20. It says the series is a big hit in Indonesia and has been translated into Hindi, Korean and Japanese.

Hillenburg, who produced and directed his first SpongeBob movie, has employed stars such as Alec Baldwin and Scarlett Johansson to voice some of the characters while Baywatch personality David Hasselhoff has made a non-cartoon appearance.

So there. :p
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#63 Nonny

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 10:27 AM

Nonny, on Jan 28 2005, 07:51 PM, said:

Spectacles, on Jan 28 2005, 02:44 PM, said:

My problem with the argument that some people are simply following God's commands by calling homosexuality "immoral" is that they seem to be awfully selective in which commands they follow. It's OK for men to cut their sideburns, people to wear clothes of mixed fabrics, eat shellfish, etc. Not many Christians would readily kill their children for cursing them. Yet the admonition for the Old Testament Jews not to engage in homosexual acts (with men) like the pagans (who cut their hair funny, ate shellfish, and engaged in homosexual acts during some temple worship ceremonies) still flies.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My big problem with picking and choosing is that so many conservatives who condemn homosexuals because of some verse in Leviticus are divorced and remarried in spite of Jesus's words in the Gospel of Matthew.  Ronald Reagan, Newt Gingrich, Bob Dole, Rush Limbaugh, all adulterers according to their own Bible.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The pick and choose thing is worse than I thought.  Instead of answering the question, why is it okay to divorce and remarry when Jesus denounced that in the Gospel of Matthew, but it's not okay to live the "homosexual lifestyle" because of Leviticus, the law that Jesus redeemed, some evangelical groups have redrawn the canon of the entire Bible.  Now, instead of emphasis upon the words of Jesus in the Gospels, they pick and choose amongst the Epistles, Leviticus and other books to find stuff that pleases them and to ignore stuff that doesn't.  

I reminded a good friend yesterday that the Bible was used to justify slavery much as it's being used today to condemn homosexuality, and he came right back with a ready response that using the Bible to justify slavery was wrong, but using it to condemn homosexuality isn't wrong due to, and I wish I could remember the term he used, but he meant that it's okay to pick and choose stuff to suit your own agenda and call it the overall intention of Jesus.  He also told me that Jesus only redeemed some of Leviticus, only the parts that his church want redeemed, apparently.  

Now that really disturbs me.  It means that no matter how carefully you craft your own position, they'll just say that it doesn't matter.  :unsure:  How nice to have such certainty in your faith.  How frightening for those of us who don't agree.  :(  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#64 waterpanther

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 10:55 AM

Of course, the one passage NONE of them takes literally is "Go and sell all that thou hast, and give it to the poor, and come, follow me."
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#65 Balderdash

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 12:59 PM

waterpanther, on Jan 29 2005, 11:55 AM, said:

Of course, the one passage NONE of them takes literally is "Go and sell all that thou hast, and give it to the poor, and come, follow me."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


To be fair I believe Jesus said that to an individual whose wealth was "sinfully" important to him.  Jesus looked at people as individuals and spoke to them on that level.  If a persons pride was a hinderance to being "saved" then he addressed that issue with that individual.  From what I managed to learn about Jesus, despite my religous upbringing was that sin was not about making laws and everyone toeing the same line but about the things that would keep you from a relationship with him and those things may be different for each of us.

Jesus said that the greatest commandment was to love God and after that to love each other.  As a lesbian I'm not feeling the love, at least not from fundies.

Another Democrat leaning Independent that has to search for truth because it can't be found on Fox News OR MSNBC.



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