Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

PBS Pulls Show Featuring Lesbians Following...

Media TV PBS Pulls Show

  • Please log in to reply
243 replies to this topic

#1 Chipper

Chipper

    Give it up

  • Islander
  • 5,202 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 07:48 PM

This is horrible.  Nasty.  This is who is representing my education?  

http://www.boston.co...cards_decision/

Excerpt:

Quote

This week, the new US secretary of education, Margaret Spellings, denounced PBS for spending public funds to tape an episode of a children's program that features Pike, a lesbian, her partner, Gillian Pieper, and their 11-year-old daughter, Emma. The installment of ''Postcards From Buster," which is produced locally at WGBH-TV (Channel 2) and which had been scheduled to air March 23, was promptly dropped by PBS, which is refusing to distribute the footage to its 349 member stations.

''It makes me sick," said Pike, a 42-year-old photographer in Hinesburg, Vt., who united with Pieper in a civil union in 2001. ''I'm actually aghast at the hatred stemming from such an important person in our government. . . . Her first official act was to denounce my family, and to denounce PBS for putting on a program that shows my family as loving, moral, and committed."

The decision by PBS caused a ripple across the nation yesterday. Terry McAuliffe, the Democratic National Committee chairman, charged in a statement that the secretary is ''confined to a very narrow and selfish agenda if her first action in office is to threaten an American institution like PBS. While America's schools are crumbling and our students are falling behind in basic skills, Republicans in Washington are too busy pursuing an intolerant agenda to try to solve the real problems."

I swear I don't have the words...
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

- Jenny Smith on Usenet, via Jid, via Kathy

#2 Atavus

Atavus

    Buying more stuff on eBay

  • Islander
  • 4,116 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 08:03 PM

The fact that the episode apparently isn't even about the parents and barely focuses on them, with the emphasis being on how to make maple syrup just shows how absurd the issue is.

And frankly, what better time to show children that same sex unions are something normal than when they are young and haven't experienced the prejudices yet?

I hope the 12 PBS stations get the chance to go ahead and air the episode. Otherwise where else will they learn about maple syrup?  :D

Edited by Atavus, 27 January 2005 - 08:03 PM.

Avid fan of "Everybody Loves Hypno-Toad" and Sophie

3000 posts and counting! :) - 18 October 05

#3 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 10:29 PM

If the parents sexual orintation was not important why was even talked about?

It must have been important enough to comment about in any format.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#4 Cheile

Cheile

    proud J/Cer ~ ten years and counting

  • Islander
  • 10,776 posts

Posted 27 January 2005 - 11:03 PM

obviously because it's PBS and they make themselves out to be so wholesome :snort:

the only worth i find in PBS is their show History Detectives.

Posted Image


"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

Twitter * Facebook * ExIsle at Facebook

icon by mercscilla @ LJ

#5 Rockhound

Rockhound

    I've seen so much "spin" I'm getting drunk!

  • Islander
  • 201 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 03:30 AM

Atavus, on Jan 27 2005, 07:03 PM, said:

The fact that the episode apparently isn't even about the parents and barely focuses on them, with the emphasis being on how to make maple syrup just shows how absurd the issue is.

It must have been pretty flippin' obvious for them to jerk the shows.

Quote

And frankly, what better time to show children that same sex unions are something normal than when they are young and haven't experienced the prejudices yet?

They're not something normal.  They're an alternative lifestyle.  Eleven out of eleven states and one sitting President agree.

Quote

I hope the 12 PBS stations get the chance to go ahead and air the episode. Otherwise where else will they learn about maple syrup?  :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


School or a book.

PBS ain't the place to be showing little kids some lesbian action, dude.  Kids need to worry about numbers and letters, and Mr. Rogers telling them things are going to be ok.

Hey I ain't got nothin' against'em, it's just awful funny that the gay/lesbian bunch practice some strange angles when it comes to promoting the agenda.  Their hetero supporters get just as wierd.  Have you ever heard this conversation:

person 1: Do you think so-n-so is gay?

person 2: Well, what difference does it make?


Well, Jeez...if it doesn't make any difference, why get so defensive about it?  It's not like I'm going to hunt a celebrity down and beat him/her to death with a BoBo Doll just because I suspect they're gay.  Just conversation...

Bottom line, I ain't into any social agenda that espouses "we're just like everyone else" then wants seperate gay swimming clubs and stuff like that.

And as to Sponge Bob, I never really thought about it before all the ruckus started, but really...with those pants, he's either gay or Bavarian.  Or both...I dunno.

Edited by Rockhound, 28 January 2005 - 03:34 AM.

"Wow. This is a ga'damn greek tragedy." ---Rockhound

#6 Godeskian

Godeskian

    You'll be seein' rainbooms

  • Islander
  • 26,839 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 04:38 AM

Quote

person 1: Do you think so-n-so is gay?

person 2: Well, what difference does it make?

I don't see this as being defensive. I'd probably ask the same question (although i'd probably say 'who cares') because someone's sexual orientation is actually of supreme indifference to me.

Which means I'd be wondering why someone asked me in the first place, because I have no particular interest in trading gossip about someone's sexual orientation.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#7 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 04:38 AM

Well here is the problem from my pov.


You make a documentry for Buster dealing with Maple syrup making in Vermont. You show the process from begining to end.  You have a child and her family involved. That both her parents are the same sex is not talked about either pro or con. You just show that the girl in the story helps her parents in their sap gathering.

The way this seems to have been made

They made a documentry for Buster dealing with maple syrup making in Vermont. they show the process from begining to end. You show the family as a whole working to gather the sap. But you also bring up that the girl's parents are gay and married under a civil union legal only in vermont.

You have a show that is not aimed about syrup making but aimed at showing homosexual relationships as being a acceptable thing. Now I can enjoy the debate about the topic. I'm 40 but a child watching this is getting,what might be in his parents household, what is considered a unacceptable message.

What needs to be done is stop trying to hide the message tell a story about maple syrup and how it's made or how homosexual unions are acceptable. It makes a case of propaganda being hidden in a message aimed at children.

What if the topic was about a inner city child that muled drugs for his older brother and how this is a acceptable or nessicary thing for inner city kids to deal with.

There is a time and place to discuss this with children I do not think it's a good idea for 4 or 5 years olds to be given that sort of message.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#8 Elara

Elara

    Feel the silence of the moonlight.

  • Watchdog
  • 2,911 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 09:50 AM

Time to write to PBS and voice my opinion.

Rockhound says:

Quote

They're not something normal.  They're an alternative lifestyle.  Eleven out of eleven states and one sitting President agree.

~.~ If they are shown as normal, like they are, then this would be good for children.
As for the states and the pres. I'll just leave my opnion of him and them out of this.

Quote

PBS ain't the place to be showing little kids some lesbian action, dude.  Kids need to worry about numbers and letters, and Mr. Rogers telling them things are going to be ok.

~.~ As a teaching station, PBS is the perfect place to show this. Think of it this way, PBS has been helpful in teaching children that good people exist in all races. Why not teach them that gay/lesbian couples are also the same good people? Isn't that a good thing for the children with same sex parents?

Quote

person 1: Do you think so-n-so is gay?

person 2: Well, what difference does it make?


Well, Jeez...if it doesn't make any difference, why get so defensive about it?  It's not like I'm going to hunt a celebrity down and beat him/her to death with a BoBo Doll just because I suspect they're gay.  Just conversation...

~.~ That would be my response and they would get the same response if they came up to me and said:
'hey, so and so is straight.'
It wouldn't be because I was feeling defensive, it would be because that to me is something that just doesn't matter. All that matters to me is that a person is a good person and if they aren't, I still don't care if they are gay or straight.

G1223 says:

Quote

Well There is a time and place to discuss this with children I do not think it's a good idea for 4 or 5 years olds to be given that sort of message.

~.~ From the time my son was born I talked to him about everything that I wanted him to learn and believe. Yes, even as an infant while I nursed him, I talked, I wanted my son to grow into a good and honorable man.
When his older cousin came out of the closet, my mother thought my son (then 12) should not be told, which I found to be foolish. Anyway, I told him and all he did was shrug and say: cool.
Learning that his cousin is gay was simply no big deal because he was taught that it's not.

People die because differences are taught to be feared and hated.

Edited by Elara, 28 January 2005 - 09:54 AM.

El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#9 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:45 AM

G1223, on Jan 27 2005, 07:29 PM, said:

If the parents sexual orintation was not important why was even talked about?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To show people who might fear them that they are no different in any significant way to other people in a committed, loving relationship?  To portray them as a family in spite of all the obstacles they face from people who fear them?  To make the statement that their differences are far less significant than their sameness?  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#10 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,353 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:58 AM

I agree that the segment is inappropriate.

I get it that they want to show a lesbian couple as being just a normal couple raising a child, etc., etc.  But its stuff like this that causes people to attack PBS as a liberal propaganda machine in the first place.  PBS has done plenty to expand awareness of homosexuality and the issues that people who are homosexual face in the society.  But this is going too far, precisely because it is being targetted at children.

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#11 MuseZack

MuseZack

    132nd S.O.C.

  • Demigod
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:04 AM

G1223, on Jan 28 2005, 09:38 AM, said:

Well here is the problem from my pov.


You make a documentry for Buster dealing with Maple syrup making in Vermont. You show the process from begining to end.  You have a child and her family involved. That both her parents are the same sex is not talked about either pro or con. You just show that the girl in the story helps her parents in their sap gathering.

The way this seems to have been made

They made a documentry for Buster dealing with maple syrup making in Vermont. they show the process from begining to end. You show the family as a whole working to gather the sap. But you also bring up that the girl's parents are gay and married under a civil union legal only in vermont.

Well, no, actually you're completely wrong.  Here's an interview with one of the show's publicists that explains what's actually in the episode (courtesy of slate.msn.com).  I've bolded the important parts:


What is the specific nature of the content that the Secretary of Education is objecting to? What exactly happens in "Sugartime"?

The animated character Buster Baxter meets real kids. In this episode he is in Vermont ... [he] meets kids with two moms.  The moms are not central to the story, the kids are. But their family structure seems to be what has triggered the concern.

Is there any nudity in "Sugartime"?

No.

Is there any sexual contact between the two women? Romantic contact? Do they kiss, touch, grope each other onscreen?

No, no, no, no and no.

Is the word "lesbian" or "gay" ever used in the episode?

No, no.

How about "dyke"?

No.

How do we know that the couple pictured are lesbians?


One of the kids introduces her  mom and stepmom, and Buster comments that she has a lot of moms. That's pretty much it.


Is "maple sugaring" actually code for some sort of sexual practice between women?

Not that we uncovered.

Is the lesbian couple married under Vermont's civil union law? Does the issue of marriage come up in the episode?

There is no mention of the women's status and marriage is not mentioned. (We know from meeting and talking with them off-camera that they are in a civil union.)

Do the children pictured in the episode talk about their parents' domestic arrangement with each other or with Buster? Is Buster curious about why two women are living together?

The daughter fondly shows a picture of her mom and stepmom, and Buster notes that she has a lot of moms. That's it. Remember, this is a show from a kid's point of view, not an adult's.


In the Buster theme song, Wyclef Jean sings : "He's got his camera /And he's gonna explore /All the neat things he's never done before." By showcasing a lesbian couple in this episode, is PBS promoting a homosexual agenda by implying that two women living together as domestic partners is a "neat thing" that children should "explore"?

No, we are not promoting anything. Buster visits kids whose parents are divorced, too - we're not promoting that either. Buster is exploring the neat things that kids all over this country do, and experience, and can teach each other.

As one of Bush's senior domestic policy advisors, Margaret Spellings was once interviewed on C-Span about some census data that indicated a decline in traditional family structures. She answered, "So what?" and added that, as a single mother, she understood that there were "lots of different types of family." How do you explain Ms. Spellings' shift on this issue since she assumed office as Secretary of Education on Monday?

We cannot explain, nor would we try.

What do you think is really at stake when the new Bush administration picks an issue like this to set the tone for the next four years? Is the government trying to find excuses to withdraw funding from public television? Or is this just a symbolic bone thrown to the Christian right? What do you think is going on?

It's not clear to us what this means.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#12 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,353 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:16 AM

Ah.  Thanks, Zack.  I should have read the link.   Now I will.  From what you posted, this seems like a pretty dumb decision....  :(  But it looks like its one of those things done JUST to get the religious right up in arms, expanding on the distrust of PBS...


HM07

Edited by Handmaiden07, 28 January 2005 - 11:16 AM.

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#13 MuseZack

MuseZack

    132nd S.O.C.

  • Demigod
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:24 AM

Handmaiden07, on Jan 28 2005, 04:16 PM, said:

Ah.  Thanks, Zack.  I should have read the link.   Now I will.  From what you posted, this seems like a pretty dumb decision....  :(  But it looks like its one of those things done JUST to get the religious right up in arms, expanding on the distrust of PBS...


HM07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


This is a show that I watch with my own children.  It's really good, and just presents how kids live in different parts of the United States in a straightforward fashion.  But by the standard being set here, they should cut the episode where Buster visits a divorced family because some people think divorce is a sin, and cut the episode where he visits the Mormon family because many Christians consider Mormonism to be a blasphemous cult.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#14 schoolpsycho

schoolpsycho
  • Islander
  • 893 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:38 AM

Hi, HM...

Quote

I get it that they want to show a lesbian couple as being just a normal couple raising a child, etc., etc. But its stuff like this that causes people to attack PBS as a liberal propaganda machine in the first place.


What about the people who might have wanted to see it? What about those who needed to see it? And, gay people are parents too. They have children.  Don't these parents and their children deserve the right to see something that reflects them?


Quote

PBS has done plenty to expand awareness of homosexuality and the issues that people who are homosexual face in the society. But this is going too far, precisely because it is being targetted at children.


Broadcasters target children with over-the-top heterosexual things all the time. From singles shacking up, to divorced parents shacking up, to getting married into unhappy stepfamilies, to getting married to rapists, staying in relationships with smitten with infidelity, abuse, and neglect, merely for entertainment.

This, from what I gather, was a thoughtful and considerate way to discuss a topic some don't want to discuss. Because children who have gay parents, could've seen a character they can identify with,  understand, and grow to love.

Hi again,

You also said later....

Quote

But it looks like its one of those things done JUST to get the religious right up in arms, expanding on the distrust of PBS...


A lot of people will be upset. But, many will be grateful.

sp

Edited by schoolpsycho, 28 January 2005 - 12:17 PM.

Love is hard...and all there is.

#15 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,353 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 11:51 AM

If a show is about single parents shacking up, I don't let my son watch it.  I expect better from PBS.  

A thoughtful venue to discuss alternative family settings is one thing... but it ought to be advertised as such, because parents still have a right and responsibility to decide if they want their children to participate, and to talk to their children about what they are seeing.  

To be honest - I had concerns about Buster as a character in Arthur.  My son was disturbed by thoughts of his own parents being divorced, like Buster's parents (my son's words).  Seeing it on t.v. didn't make him feel better - it heightened his anxiety about a situation that was imminent in his own life.

T.V. does not have the job of teaching our children how to cope with life... parents have that job.   That said - the information posted by Zack demonstrates that that's NOT what was happening here.  I haven't yet read the original article.

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#16 schoolpsycho

schoolpsycho
  • Islander
  • 893 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:07 PM

Quote

To be honest - I had concerns about Buster as a character in Arthur. My son was disturbed by thoughts of his own parents being divorced, like Buster's parents (my son's words). Seeing it on t.v. didn't make him feel better - it heightened his anxiety about a situation that was imminent in his own life.


And neither do shows about infidelity, for it's been a big part of my life. But, they'll still show them, regardless of how it makes me feel. I deal with it the best I can, but it's still not easy.

Quote

T.V. does not have the job of teaching our children how to cope with life... parents have that job. That said - the information posted by Zack demonstrates that that's NOT what was happening here. I haven't yet read the original article.


People who run TV stations are parents as well; they have kids of their own. And maybe those in charge of this staion wanted to show this to them. But, they will not for now.

sp
Love is hard...and all there is.

#17 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:14 PM

Handmaiden07, on Jan 28 2005, 10:58 AM, said:

I agree that the segment is inappropriate.

I get it that they want to show a lesbian couple as being just a normal couple raising a child, etc., etc.  But its stuff like this that causes people to attack PBS as a liberal propaganda machine in the first place.  PBS has done plenty to expand awareness of homosexuality and the issues that people who are homosexual face in the society.  But this is going too far, precisely because it is being targetted at children.

HM07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


This is going to get me deep into the fire, but whatever. Here it goes:

"I get it that they want to show a black couple as being just a normal couple raising a child, etc., etc.  But its stuff like this that causes people to attack PBS as a liberal propaganda machine in the first place.  PBS has done plenty to expand awareness of black people and the issues that people who are black face in the society.  But this is going too far, precisely because it is being targetted at children."

I imagine that some folks aren't going to be comfortable with what I just did here, but I'm trying to make a point.

Suppose you (general you) have a kid at school who has a friend with gay parents. He or she  asks you about them. How do you approach this? Why is this suddenly "going too far" because it's targeted at children?? :suspect:

Saul

Edited by Digital Man, 28 January 2005 - 12:16 PM.

Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#18 Vapor Trails

Vapor Trails

    In a world where I feel so small, I can't stop thinking big.

  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 16,523 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:22 PM

Rockhound, on Jan 28 2005, 03:30 AM, said:

PBS ain't the place to be showing little kids some lesbian action, dude.  Kids need to worry about numbers and letters, and Mr. Rogers telling them things are going to be ok.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


"Lesbian action" ????

Jeeze, you make it sound like PBS is gonna be showing some Jenna Jameson video to school kids.  :p  :wacko:  :sarcasm:
Posted Image

Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#19 MuseZack

MuseZack

    132nd S.O.C.

  • Demigod
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:23 PM

Handmaiden07, on Jan 28 2005, 04:51 PM, said:

To be honest - I had concerns about Buster as a character in Arthur.  My son was disturbed by thoughts of his own parents being divorced, like Buster's parents (my son's words).  Seeing it on t.v. didn't make him feel better - it heightened his anxiety about a situation that was imminent in his own life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I hear you HM, but it's a really tough tightrope balancing act for shows that want to realistically depict the lives of kids.  We're trying hard to keep our kindergarten age daughter from using the word "stupid" to describe other people, but it's difficult when it's a word that's thrown around with abandon by classmates, otherwise child-friendly television shows, and even popular books like the Junie B. Jones series.

And we wanted to save a serious discussion about death and its implications for a future date, but when the class rat unexpectedly died over Christmas vacation, it prompted a lot of questions on the subject.  

So, while I don't think a television show about schoolchildren has an obligation to rub kids' noses in every horrible aspect of life, it can't be overly sanitized either, or kids will recognize it as something that bears no resemblance to their own lives.  The tricky thing is to somehow strike that balance.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#20 Bad Wolf

Bad Wolf

    Luck is when opportunity meets preparation

  • Islander
  • 38,881 posts

Posted 28 January 2005 - 12:24 PM

So it's morally wrong because they're not married but oh NO, it turns out that they're not ALLOWED to get married.  Anyone else see the hypocricy in this?  I'm disgusted at those who wanted this pulled and equally disgusted with PBS for caving.  

Lil
Posted Image



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Media, TV, PBS, Pulls Show

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users