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PBS Pulls Show Featuring Lesbians Following...

Media TV PBS Pulls Show

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#41 QueenTiye

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 05:42 PM

G1223, on Jan 28 2005, 05:18 PM, said:

Yet this show does not show say a kid being raised by members of the KKK.  Nor saying anything about such an organization or such people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Um... that's really offensive.  :(  

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#42 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 05:49 PM

I'm wondering if G was really comparing homosexuality to the KKK or if he was trying to say that the two are NOT comparable...

G, maybe you could clarify?

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#43 Spectacles

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 06:06 PM

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maryavatar: My sister in law is gay, and in a committed relationship. Should I not allow her and her partner to come to our house for dinner because it might make my kids think being gay is normal?


Not only that, but apparently sitting down to dinner is "lesbian action."  :eek4:

So is making maple syrup.

I'm thinking that if you have them over for dinner and serve pancakes, you're really dooming your kids to a lifetime of sexual confusion at the least and eternal hell at the worst.

My office mate's wife told their daughter when she was around five that some girls grow up to marry other girls. This bit of info came up naturally in a conversation they were having about people marrying when they grow up. Her reaction was to widen her eyes and go "gnnk!", but that was several years ago and she seems not to have been too traumatized by the information. After all, she went to a progressive school where more than one kid had two mommies or two daddies, so it most likely just helped her to understand things better.

And frankly, it's a reality. As many have said here, there are around a million kids being raised in gay families. It's a matter of fact and ought to be presented matter-of-factly, as the series did.
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#44 G1223

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 06:24 PM

I am meaning that the show picks and chooses the message it is putting out. Which means it is saying this mode of behavior is acceptable even when it has not been accepted by a majority.

Trying to use the statement that the segment is about syrup making and then pitching in a bit of propaganda that gay marriage is acceptable by everyone(When it's not. Note the varius states where the people have voted to make it illegal.) is false faced. I suspect that makers of the deliberatly choose to put their own spin on social issues that is not right for the audience that the show is aimed at.

They were trying to make a segement about syrup making in vermont. Then why the adding of a unrelated issue?

As to the KKK statement I was trying to point out that if we are going to give children the full range of the american society. Then we need to show them racists as parents and allow the 5yr old to decide if they like it or consider it acceptable.

If you are wanting to make it so kids can decide that they want to live a particular lifestyle at age 5 then lets give them the full range outlets.

Basically it's a show using a interesting thing(Making syrup) and a fuzzy animal to put out it's one sides message.


Now as to the issue I personally do not care. But I do dislike programming that is not what it claims to be. Nor do I think the KKK is something I would like any child under the age of 12 to have to deal with in a educational format. But I feel it's also wrong to be programming kids with social ideas that might or might not be acceptable when they are older or even adults.
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#45 maryavatar

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 06:39 PM

Many people grow up to think eating meat is not acceptable.  Should we censor shows that feature people eating a burger?

Edited by maryavatar, 28 January 2005 - 06:40 PM.

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#46 Bad Wolf

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 06:44 PM

Quote

As to the KKK statement I was trying to point out that if we are going to give children the full range of the american society. Then we need to show them racists as parents and allow the 5yr old to decide if they like it or consider it acceptable.

Ah, so you were indeed saying that homosexuality is comparable to being in the KKK.

In that case, what Josh and Zack said.

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#47 Nick

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:10 PM

Okay . . . the only reason we know these women were even a couple is because everyone thought "gasp! two mommies, they MUST BE GAY LESBIAN LOVERS!".  In this case, yeah, we confirm off-camera that they are a gay couple.  How would the show have played out differently under a different off-camera scenario:

Let's say bio-mom divorces bio-dad, but maintains partial custody.  Bio-dad remarries (so she has a stepmom, who assists in raising her).  Something happens to get bio-dad out of the picture--death or an event that causes him to lose custody.  The ordeal causes hardship for one or both moms & kid, and they become close friends as they work through it, move in as roomies (rather than lovers) and both stay involved as "moms" to the kid they've both had a hand in raising--and wish to continue doing so.

^That's one way a kid can wind up with two mommies living together who aren't lesbians--and the kicker is . . . the scenario is beyond the scope of a children's show to explain beyond "gee! you have two moms!' and the segment would have played out exactly the same with no lesbians involved.

So it looks a lot to me like SecEd saw the segment, flipped over an apparently gay couple, then yanked the show.

Would it have still been yanked if the women weren't actually gay?

-Nick

Edited by Nick, 28 January 2005 - 07:11 PM.


#48 Palisades

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:19 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Jan 28 2005, 06:44 PM, said:

Quote

As to the KKK statement I was trying to point out that if we are going to give children the full range of the american society. Then we need to show them racists as parents and allow the 5yr old to decide if they like it or consider it acceptable.

Ah, so you were indeed saying that homosexuality is comparable to being in the KKK.

In that case, what Josh and Zack said.

Lil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Actaully, G raised an interesting philosophical question. I would come down on the side of saying that documentaries on the KKK and racists should be made so long as they're historically accurate, but 5 year olds should be kept from watching them until they're older and able to analyze the issue.G thinks that a society should suppress beliefs/values/positions it considers undesirable.
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#49 MuseZack

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:31 PM

Solar Wind, on Jan 29 2005, 12:19 AM, said:

Una Salus Lillius, on Jan 28 2005, 06:44 PM, said:

Quote

As to the KKK statement I was trying to point out that if we are going to give children the full range of the american society. Then we need to show them racists as parents and allow the 5yr old to decide if they like it or consider it acceptable.

Ah, so you were indeed saying that homosexuality is comparable to being in the KKK.

In that case, what Josh and Zack said.

Lil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Actaully, G raised an interesting philosophical question. I would come down on the side of saying that documentaries on the KKK and racists should be made so long as they're historically accurate, but 5 year olds should be kept from watching them until they're older and able to analyze the issue.G thinks that a society should suppress beliefs/values/positions it considers undesirable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It's the cheapest debating tactic imaginable to equate two things which have nothing in common with each other.  Unfortunately, it's one that opponents of homosexuality do all the time.  It's right up there with that old standby: "Oh, you think bein' a homo is okay, do you?  Well, what about pedophilia and incest, huh?"

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#50 The Tyrant

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:34 PM

Solar Wind, on Jan 28 2005, 07:19 PM, said:

G thinks that a society should suppress beliefs/values/positions it considers undesirable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Then welcome to a police state. Have a nice day, citizen.

Who appointed the new Secretary? Cause I get the feeling this is just another step in the Bush administration's attempt to demonize anything that isn't good Christian values....and my apologies to any Christians that statement may offend...

#51 Elara

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:34 PM

okay, G1223 does raise an interesting point, a point I believe I can easily answer.

The KKK: killed people for the color of their skin or killed/beat a white person because they liked people of the 'wrong' color.

Gays/Lesbians: are killed/beaten for their sexual preferences and people that like them/protect them are killed/beaten for liking/protecting.

Do you see the difference? The KKK is a deadly group based on hate.
Gays/Lesbians are based on love.
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#52 Palisades

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:50 PM

RichieAvatar, on Jan 28 2005, 07:34 PM, said:

Solar Wind, on Jan 28 2005, 07:19 PM, said:

G thinks that a society should suppress beliefs/values/positions it considers undesirable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Then welcome to a police state. Have a nice day, citizen.

We suppress hate speech.
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#53 Anastashia

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:54 PM

I had been thionking along the lines of what Nick said, especially when the girl apparently said one of the woman was her stepmom.
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#54 jon3831

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:57 PM

Quote

Solar Wind: We suppress hate speech.

Suppressing hate speech is still abrogating freedom of speech, any way you look at it.

That way danger lies, IMHO. When you start outlawing "hate speech", it creates a situation where almost *anything* can be classified as hate speech.

Whether society agrees with them or not, the KKK is still allowed to march. The Nazi Party is still allowed to distribute their literature, despite the fact that their institutional doctrine is based on hate.

We may not like it, we may, in fact, hate it. But denying these groups their right to speak and write would be counter to the fundamental principles the United States were founded on.

Edit: Ani snuck in...

Edited by jon3831, 28 January 2005 - 07:58 PM.

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#55 Palisades

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:03 PM

Elara, on Jan 28 2005, 07:34 PM, said:

Do you see the difference? The KKK is a deadly group based on hate.
Gays/Lesbians are based on love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The relevant property here is not why a society values/abhors certain things. It's whether and to what extent the society should suppress that which it abhors.

(As a side note, sexual preference is based on lust, not love, but no matter.)
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#56 Palisades

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:06 PM

jon3831, on Jan 28 2005, 07:57 PM, said:

Quote

Solar Wind: We suppress hate speech.

Suppressing hate speech is still abrogating freedom of speech, any way you look at it.

That way danger lies, IMHO. When you start outlawing "hate speech", it creates a situation where almost *anything* can be classified as hate speech.

Whether society agrees with them or not, the KKK is still allowed to march. The Nazi Party is still allowed to distribute their literature, despite the fact that their institutional doctrine is based on hate.

We may not like it, we may, in fact, hate it. But denying these groups their right to speak and write would be counter to the fundamental principles the United States were founded on.

Edit: Ani snuck in...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


My point here is not whether we should suppress hate speech. My point was that we DO suppress hate speech -- the Supreme Court has deemed it unconstitutional, and there are laws against it.
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#57 Elara

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:11 PM

Solar Wind, on Jan 28 2005, 08:03 PM, said:

Elara, on Jan 28 2005, 07:34 PM, said:

Do you see the difference? The KKK is a deadly group based on hate.
Gays/Lesbians are based on love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The relevant property here is not why a society values/abhors certain things. It's whether and to what extent the society should suppress that which it abhors.

~.~ As has been mentioned by others, the two do not compare and my point stands.

Quote

(As a side note, sexual preference is based on lust, not love, but no matter.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


~.~ The preference yes, it is a sexual attraction, just the same as a straight couple. But, just like a straight couple, if they become a commited couple, then it is based on love.
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#58 Palisades

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:14 PM

Elara, on Jan 28 2005, 08:11 PM, said:

Solar Wind, on Jan 28 2005, 08:03 PM, said:

Elara, on Jan 28 2005, 07:34 PM, said:

Do you see the difference? The KKK is a deadly group based on hate.
Gays/Lesbians are based on love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The relevant property here is not why a society values/abhors certain things. It's whether and to what extent the society should suppress that which it abhors.

~.~ As has been mentioned by others, the two do not compare and my point stands.

The similarity is that they are both things that society (for the most part) abhors.
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"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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#59 Spectacles

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:16 PM

Quote

Solar Wind: The relevant property here is not why a society values/abhors certain things. It's whether and to what extent the society should suppress that which it abhors.

Doesn't that presume that society's tastes are (a) static and (b) ought to be? If so, the entire Civil Rights Movement of the 60s was a big fluke. Or am I misreading the "here" in "the relevant property" (which is entirely possible).

Quote

(As a side note, sexual preference is based on lust, not love, but no matter.)

But, usually, marriage is based on more than lust--shared values, companionship, a desire to raise a family, build a life together, care for each other. The same is true of gay and lesbian relationships.
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#60 Palisades

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 08:22 PM

Spectacles, on Jan 28 2005, 08:16 PM, said:

Quote

Solar Wind: The relevant property here is not why a society values/abhors certain things. It's whether and to what extent the society should suppress that which it abhors.

Doesn't that presume that society's tastes are (a) static and (b) ought to be? If so, the entire Civil Rights Movement of the 60s was a big fluke. Or am I misreading the "here" in "the relevant property" (which is entirely possible).

As your example points out, it does not. Before the Civil Rights Movement racial violence and discrimination were socially acceptable, at least in the South. Now, they're becoming increasingly socially unacceptable. Edit: As they've become increasingly socially unacceptable, they've become increasingly suppressed.

"Here" referred to the example given.

Edited by Solar Wind, 28 January 2005 - 08:26 PM.

"When the Fed is the bartender everybody drinks until they fall down." —Paul McCulley

"In truth, 'too big to fail' is not the worst thing we should fear – our financial institutions are now on their way to becoming 'too big to save'." —Simon Johnson

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