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#21 Bad Wolf

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 01:32 PM

Nonny, on Feb 13 2005, 10:23 AM, said:

Cheile, on Feb 13 2005, 10:20 AM, said:

lesson learned indeed.  that being a b*tch will get you NO sympathy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true.  The more I read about this, the more she has mine.  I am sorry I ever inadvertently started this hate-fest by posting the original thread before I knew her side.  

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Don't get me wrong.  She was understandably freaked out by the incident (as I would have been) and her physical consequences were what they were and she's not at fault for that.

However, as I said, she chose the public forum (and those documents are a matter of public record and no doubt include her address) and she chose to ask for puniticve damages and other "extras" which show that she was over reaching.  She looks particularly bad here because the kids' parents tried to mitigate by offering to pay her medicals.  Then she went public.

The whole thing has gotten blown out of proportion for sure but she made her bed.

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#22 Tricia

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 02:03 PM

Cheile, on Feb 13 2005, 06:24 PM, said:

Quote

But what's done is done. The woman's address and phone number should not have been put on the Internet. There is no justification for this.

correct me if i'm wrong on this instance, but isn't every phone book now online?  if their number is listed in their local/county book, all some angry person would have to do is look it up.  if it was UNlisted, that's another story.

True but how many people would go and actually look it up for themselves.  Someone posting it on a messageboard where they are discussing the story and emotions are running high...that's a whole different thing. And that's what someone said in the original thread about this case


Quote

Quote

But blame the media if you must blame someone. How else would any of us known about this if they hadn't done a story somewhere that turned into this runaway train.

they didn't hand out the woman's address and number to the Internet.  they did a story.  the fault is HERS for being a drama queen.

you even said earlier why did she have a right saying the girls could not speak when she was standing there badmouthing them to reporters?  she brought this all on herself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



True ...someone took it upon themselves to post that info.  The story has taken on a life of its own as do most things now.   Once the media gets their teeth into a good story they don't let go

The story will go away and she can get back to having her own life if she doesn't add to  it by commenting publicly this way.  Lots of other folks who have been in these types of situations will tell you that the minute they refused to speak publicly about it anymore...the story faded away

Trying to tell your side of the story to defend yourself doesn't always work. It just feeds the story and the problem sometimes.  You've got to know as an individual when to give up because you just can't win in the court of public opinion

I'm not defending the woman. I personally think she was very WRONG in handling it the way she did.  And her comments in the press sounded extremely harsh towards the girls.  So yes, she has only herself to blame.  She would have been better off keeping her mouth shut.  Her husband's comments and her own since this have only added fuel to the fire.

Edited by trikay, 13 February 2005 - 02:10 PM.

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#23 Nonny

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 02:09 PM

eloisel, on Feb 12 2005, 08:18 PM, said:

Still, I wonder why it took the families 3 days to respond to what had happened to Ms. Young.  Apparently either one of them is an attorney, has legal experience, or they sought out legal advice.  Their offer to pay Ms. Young's medical expenses came attached to a release and indemnity clause.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Una Salus Lillius, on Feb 13 2005, 10:32 AM, said:

However, as I said, she chose the public forum (and those documents are a matter of public record and no doubt include her address) and she chose to ask for puniticve damages and other "extras" which show that she was over reaching.  She looks particularly bad here because the kids' parents tried to mitigate by offering to pay her medicals.  Then she went public.

The whole thing has gotten blown out of proportion for sure but she made her bed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Made her bed?  I think she got short-sheeted by that release and indemnity clause.  No sincere apology ever had a legal release attached to it.  

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

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#24 Nonny

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 02:13 PM

trikay, on Feb 13 2005, 11:03 AM, said:

So yes, she has only herself to blame. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, she has those two hard-faced nasty little girls to blame.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#25 Tricia

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 02:19 PM

^^^^^As I said earlier....we don't know what was said in any conversations between Mrs. Young and the parents of the girls before that document was produced.  

Things may have been said that implied she was going to really take them to the cleaners.  Or threats of some kind made.  When emotions are running high things do get said that you later regret or that you didn't intend to be taken in the way they were....

Or maybe them even making the offer to pay for her medical bills led to the court case. That they were willing and able to fork over that kind of money for something that essentially started out as a misunderstanding/misguided good deed...may have led to the idea to get more.

The thing is we only know certain details of this case....and those don't tell the WHOLE story.

Neither side was completely right and neither side was completely wrong.

Edited by trikay, 13 February 2005 - 02:25 PM.

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#26 eloisel

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 02:33 PM

Nonny, on Feb 13 2005, 06:23 PM, said:

Cheile, on Feb 13 2005, 10:20 AM, said:

lesson learned indeed.  that being a b*tch will get you NO sympathy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not true.  The more I read about this, the more she has mine.  I am sorry I ever inadvertently started this hate-fest by posting the original thread before I knew her side.  

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't worry about it Nonny.  If you hadn't picked up on it, someone else would have.  The story is in the newspapers, online, and on radio and TV.

So far as the girls:  A cookie company has named a cookie "The kindness cookie" after them.  Tons of money is floating their way.  The medical bills they were court ordered to pay were far exceeded.  The parents posted a letter in the Denver Post giving a P.O. Box address to send donations.  They are setting up education funds for the girls and will give some money to charity.

Also, I think the person who said the girls should have kept their mouths shut after the court proceedings was Mr. Young.  As an added note, apparently he called one of the parents and the parents now have an injunction against him for making the harassing phone call or calls - the story is not specific.

I am glad that there are some dissenting viewpoints out there and on the side of Ms. Young.  They are few, and the dissenters are attacked almost as unmercifully as the Youngs.

And as Paul Harvey used to say, "And now, for the rest of the story ..."  even though this may only be more pieces to it:

Quote

She lives off of County Road 214 in a rural area on the mesa south of Durango and was in the basement of her house watching television with her 86-year-old mother and 19-year-old daughter about 10:20 p.m. when the incident took place.

"We heard this horrible banging on the door, like someone was trying to break it down," Young said Friday. "I ran upstairs and called out 'Who's there?' three or four times. But no one answered me and when I looked out the window, there weren't any vehicles in sight. But I could see the silhouette of someone on the other side of the window. I got really scared and called the sheriff's department."

According to documents filed with the court, the girls had parked about 500 feet away from Young's home, shielding their car behind a grove of trees.

A statement by Taylor Ostergaard included in court documents said the girls "knocked on the door three times loudly, left the plate of cookies on the step and ran away. (We) wanted someone to hear the door and find the cookies so an animal wouldn't eat them before morning."

Fourth, Wanita Young is apparently neither a madwoman nor misanthrope. She's a cashier at Wal-Mart and has been director of the Durango Food Bank since 1990.   Explaining her anxiety, Young told the Herald that, after finding the plate of cookies and a note saying  "Have a great night. Love, The T and L Club" :

"I had no idea what the note meant," Young said. "Fifteen years ago, I was assaulted by one of my neighbors as I was taking my children to meet the school bus, and I wondered if somehow the incident was connected to that.

"After the deputies looked around, they weren't sure what had gone on and said that it might be a good idea if I took my mother and daughter and stayed in a motel that night," Young said. "My husband was out of town, so I decided to spend the night in Farmington at my sister's house. Driving down there, I was throwing up and feeling a lot of pressure in my chest. I thought I might be having a heart attack."

The next morning, Young went to the emergency room at Mercy Medical Center, incurring more than $1,400 in hospital bills for what doctors eventually diagnosed as an anxiety attack.

Fifth, The young bakers wrote a letter of apology and it appears that the parents of one of the young women offered to pay Young's out-of-pocket medical costs, if she signed an indemnification agreement.  Young was advised not to sign it, and instead filed in small claims court.   Mrs. Young is quoted saying  "All I wanted was for those girls to admit that they used poor judgment and apologize in person. If they had done that, I wouldn't have even asked for the money. I just hope they learned a lesson."  According to the Herald, "on the advice of an attorney, they opted not to meet with her in person." 

Sixth,   Taylor told Good Morning America, "We think outside the box a little more than usual," said Ostergaard. "We just wanted to do something nice for other people, [to] let them know other people care about them even though they didn't know who it was."

Another side note:  The girls are still passing out cookies but at a little earlier time.

#27 Nonny

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:26 PM

eloisel, on Feb 13 2005, 11:33 AM, said:

Don't worry about it Nonny.  If you hadn't picked up on it, someone else would have.  The story is in the newspapers, online, and on radio and TV.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, eloisel, and thanks for finding and posting the other side of the story.  

If the Youngs are forced to move away, I wonder who will care enough to take over the Durango Food Bank?  :(  And who's paying for the rest of Young's medical bills?  As a cashier at Wal-Mart, how can she afford the other $500?  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#28 Bad Wolf

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:32 PM

Quote

"All I wanted was for those girls to admit that they used poor judgment and apologize in person. If they had done that, I wouldn't have even asked for the money. I just hope they learned a lesson."

Right. And that's why she asked for punitive damages and other extras.  

It's sop for anyone seeking to settle anything to get a release.  Sincerity hasn't a thing to do with it, it's just common sense.

She escalated things.  When one person does that, things tend to get further escalated and the person who starts the escalation often gets more than they bargained for.


OIt's not that she deserves to be hounded or threatened or that the girls are in the right, it's that she should have considered the consequences of making a mountain out of a mole hill, something she claims would have dropped with just an apology and admission of poor judgment, before she embarked on the course of escalating things.

Litigation is a bitch and not to be undertaken lightly.

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#29 JadziaDax

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:42 PM

Nonny, on Feb 13 2005, 01:26 PM, said:

eloisel, on Feb 13 2005, 11:33 AM, said:

Don't worry about it Nonny.  If you hadn't picked up on it, someone else would have.  The story is in the newspapers, online, and on radio and TV.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If the Youngs are forced to move away, I wonder who will care enough to take over the Durango Food Bank?  :(  And who's paying for the rest of Young's medical bills?  As a cashier at Wal-Mart, how can she afford the other $500?  

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



People in Durango aren't idiots. I'm sure someone would be more then happy to step up to take over.
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#30 Nonny

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:42 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Feb 13 2005, 12:32 PM, said:

It's sop for anyone seeking to settle anything to get a release.  Sincerity hasn't a thing to do with it, it's just common sense.

She escalated things.  When one person does that, things tend to get further escalated and the person who starts the escalation often gets more than they bargained for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, she escalated, AFTER they escalated by sticking that release in her face instead of sending the girls over for a heartfelt apology.  Seems to me that THEY started the legal portion of the proceedings, SHE just responded to the insult heaped upon the injury.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#31 Nonny

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:45 PM

JadziaDax, on Feb 13 2005, 12:42 PM, said:

People in Durango aren't idiots. I'm sure someone would be more then happy to step up to take over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, but they are apparently vicious.  Considering how many people in need are mentally disabled, will the "crazies" be able to deal with the stepper-upper?  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#32 Cheile

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 03:58 PM

Nonny, on Feb 13 2005, 12:13 PM, said:

trikay, on Feb 13 2005, 11:03 AM, said:

So yes, she has only herself to blame. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, she has those two hard-faced nasty little girls to blame.  

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


:blink:  wtf?  how the HELL are they "hard-faced nasty little girls"?  they made her COOKIES for God's sake and she sues them instead of accepting the parents' offer to pay her medical bills?

SHE is the one being hard-faced and nasty.  are they supposed to lie down and take her abuse because she can't handle someone dropping off a gift late in the evening??

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#33 Cheile

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:00 PM

trikay, on Feb 13 2005, 12:03 PM, said:

True but how many people would go and actually look it up for themselves.

well the reason i mentioned that is cuz on the original yahoo news thread that i saw there were several angry posters who did go and look up her address and number and post it with nasty messages i won't repeat here.

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#34 Bad Wolf

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:02 PM

Okay, speaking of escalation, maybe things would be cooler if people could stop referring to Ms. Young as a bitch or the girls as hard faced and nasty.  I mean this story is nothing any of us can do anything about.  *Just a suggestion*

My opinion stands as stated but hey if people disagree, that's cool.
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#35 Vapor Trails

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:17 PM

trikay, on Feb 13 2005, 02:03 PM, said:

Trying to tell your side of the story to defend yourself doesn't always work. It just feeds the story and the problem sometimes.  You've got to know as an individual when to give up because you just can't win in the court of public opinion

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



The truth in this statement is SO deep that it amazes me how many folks miss it. It's not just public opinion-it's also oftentimes when you're dealing with folks one-on-one.

I've had friendships end because of things like this.  :(  

Explaining yourself oftentimes doesn't work, because you have to keep in mind that folks are gonna see things through THEIR perspective. It doesn't matter how off that perspective is-their perspective oftentimes is the ONLY one that matters.

You need to keep in mind that there are ***A LOT*** of close-minded people out there, who will see what THEY want to see. And frankly-you can never win with those kinds of people.

I usually tell them to p!ss off.  :glare:

:pout:
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#36 Kimmer

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:26 PM

Digital Man, on Feb 13 2005, 01:17 PM, said:

You need to keep in mind that there are ***A LOT*** of close-minded people out there, who will see what THEY want to see. And frankly-you can never win with those kinds of people.

I usually tell them to p!ss off.  :glare:

:pout:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saul, I can always count on you for a frank and honest comment.  :p  :p  :p

Now I've got to wipe the iced tea from my monitor.

Pickles

#37 Vapor Trails

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:26 PM

Una Salus Lillius, on Feb 13 2005, 04:02 PM, said:

Okay, speaking of escalation, maybe things would be cooler if people could stop referring to Ms. Young as a bitch or the girls as hard faced and nasty.  I mean this story is nothing any of us can do anything about.  *Just a suggestion*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The lady counselor speaks the truth.  Listen to her, for she is wise. :)

I think both the girls and this woman have some part to play in the fall-out, but I think folks here on this BBS ought to lighten up a bit and cool off. Funny-that coming from ME, of all people!!  :blink:  :wideeyed:  :blink:

And Nonny-I've suffered from panic disorder, so I can relate. I know how painful that is. :(

Another rare hug...

{{{{{{{{Nonny}}}}}}}}}

I think the girls are guilty of nothing more than being INCREDIBLY naive. If you're going to do a "good deed" for someone, you need to think about-

1) HOW you're going to carry out this deed

and

2) WHO are you doing it for..

Not thinking these things through can get you in a world of trouble. Being naive isn't a crime-but it can be INCREDIBLY dangerous-even fatal-to be naive.

And the problem with being naive oftentimes is that you have to pay a VERY high cost. And sometimes-the cost can be TOO high.

These girls need to grow up.

:pout:

Saul
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#38 Vapor Trails

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:28 PM

Pickles, on Feb 13 2005, 04:26 PM, said:

Digital Man, on Feb 13 2005, 01:17 PM, said:

You need to keep in mind that there are ***A LOT*** of close-minded people out there, who will see what THEY want to see. And frankly-you can never win with those kinds of people.

I usually tell them to p!ss off.  :glare:

:pout:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Saul, I can always count on you for a frank and honest comment.  :p  :p  :p

Now I've got to wipe the iced tea from my monitor.

Pickles

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I ain't buying you no monitor, missy.

;p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~"

And speaking of raspberries-you're behind on your raspberry quota.

:p
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Politicians are like bananas; they hang together, they're all yellow, and there's not a straight one among them.

"We're relevant for $ and a vote once every two years. Beyond that, we're completely irrelevant, except of course to consume, and preach the gospel according to [insert political demigod here]."--Cait

#39 Nonny

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:42 PM

Digital Man, on Feb 13 2005, 01:26 PM, said:

And Nonny-I've suffered from panic disorder, so I can relate. I know how painful that is. :(

Another rare hug...

{{{{{{{{Nonny}}}}}}}}}

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm honored.  Consider yourself hugged back, unless, of course, you don't wanna be.  :blush:

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#40 Cheile

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Posted 13 February 2005 - 04:44 PM

Digital Man, on Feb 13 2005, 02:26 PM, said:

I think the girls are guilty of nothing more than being INCREDIBLY naive. If you're going to do a "good deed" for someone, you need to think about-

1) HOW you're going to carry out this deed

and

2) WHO are you doing it for..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


okay Saul your points are good but the second one has me asking this.  why is it their fault this woman can't accept a random act of kindness?  she called the sheriffs and took their recommendation to stay elsewhere for the night.  that should have been the end of it.

but instead it's turned into what it is now.

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"Andromeda may be over but it's not dead. Not as long as we have fanfic writers dedicated to keeping it alive.  Whether you accept everything as canon or stop at a certain point. Whether you accept and enjoy Nu Drom or only accept Classic Drom, it will never be over.  Not as long as we have each other [and Beka], who binds us all together." ~ Mary Rose

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