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Iraq Updates: Part IV

Iraq Updates

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#121 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 08:31 AM

I just had to share this cross-cultural moment from CNN.

A professor from Cairo university speaking about Arab reaction to the Iraqi celebration.

Quote

I think it will silence much of the criticism of the war in this region. We cannot be more Catholic than the Pope, as we say.

I have  of course, not the vaguest idea if this gentleman is Christian or Muslim, or completely secular, but the juxtaposition was just too striking to ignore.  :)

Ro

#122 Rov Judicata

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 09:30 AM

LOL Ro! Thanks

A funny story (kinda):

An attempt to loot an Iraqi bank failed. Turns out that if you use a grenade on a safe, you'll end up incinerating the money inside.....
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#123 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 09:34 AM

^ Sad and funny at the same time.

And, re my quote, it was the last phrase that really cinched it for me, as we say. :)

Ro

#124 MovieImp

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 03:38 PM

Finally got home last night to see the coverage of them pulling down the statue and dancing in the streets and dragging the head of the statue along beating on it with shoes.  Very dramatic stuff.
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#125 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 06:15 PM

  USS Lincoln Released From Duty in Iraq

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The Navy confirmed Wednesday that the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln has been released from duty in the Iraq war and is returning to its home port here. The carrier was relieved of duty by the USS Nimitz, spokesman Rick Huling said. No arrival date had been set, but families of crew members are expecting the ship in about a month and are planning a big welcome.  It would be the first homecoming for a large unit involved in the war in Iraq.


I think the heavy bombers (B-52 anyone?) and carrier airpower are going to come out of this war as top dogs with heavy armor.

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Zack: The most convincing theory I've heard so far is that there was shooting in the general area, and the tank crew looked up and saw the Reuters cameramen with a shoulder-held video camera with a telephoto lens on the end, and mistook it for an RPG, with tragic results. Being in a war zone is dangerous business..

A note on this one because some questioning of that assumption has come up. Reports are the damage isn't consistent with what you would expect from a 120 mm round from an Abrams. The angle was wrong for the tank fire to even hit at that particular location. The damage was fairly superficial rather than more extensive and didn't totally fit with where other tank rounds struck the building. Might very well of been an RPG that got them.

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Norville:I intend to read _Jarhead_ by Anthony Swofford (a Marine discussing the Gulf War of '91), and he was aghast to hear that. Oh well, we're all weird.

That is when you leave copies of "The Art of War" at random locations. ;)

Quote

Rov: An attempt to loot an Iraqi bank failed. Turns out that if you use a grenade on a safe, you'll end up incinerating the money inside.....

C4!! Err I'll just wander away now.:D
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#126 MuseZack

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 06:33 PM

Here's a pretty good analysis of the military situation at http://www.washingto...0-2003Apr9.html


It seems to confirm what journalists in Baghdad before the war noticed:  for all his talk about creating a Stalingrad on the Tigris, Saddam Hussein did very little to actually prepare the capital for war.  A lot of people assumed that there must have been formidable preparations going on in secret (which was wise-- you never want to bank on the stupidity of your opponent), but now it looks as if he and his military planners were simply mind-bogglingly inept.   Good for us.  Bad for him.

Zack

P.S.  Who would have thought that this war would play out exactly the opposite of predictions:  hard fighting in the Shi'ite south, followed by a sudden collapse in Baghdad?
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Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
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#127 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 06:42 PM

From CNN: Prominent Shiite cleric assasinated in Najaf.

Apparently, though he was just about to deliver a pro-coalition speech, preliminary speculation is that it was not related to that but was an internal struggle for power.

Not much more info at this time.

:(  

Ro

#128 MovieImp

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 07:55 PM

Just heard a radio report that there was a suicide bomb attack outside of the Palenstein Hotel in Baghdad with possiblity of 4 or more Marines killed.

That was all the had and I this was at the security station where they have a radio.  Anyone heard more?

Edited by MovieImp, 10 April 2003 - 07:56 PM.

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#129 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 09:09 PM

Not much more info on the suicide bombings, I'm afraid, except that there are two reported at this time.

ETA: Correction, I misheard. One suicide bombing. The other casualties I heard about were the ones at the mosque near a presidential palace  in Baghdad.

Also, apparently the Iraqi Commander of the 5th Corps and Governor General of Mosul are about to formally surrender. Within the next half hour.

Yay for capitulation without bloodshed.

Ro

Edited by Ro-Astarte, 10 April 2003 - 11:16 PM.


#130 Lover of Purple

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 09:16 PM

The first Iraqi baby born in freedom has been named George. :)

#131 the 'Hawk

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Posted 10 April 2003 - 09:52 PM

^ Maybe they'll name the first poodle born in a ---- never mind. :lol:

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#132 Norville

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 04:18 AM

Quote

I was listening to radio while this was going on. They took it down quickly, and put up an Iraq flag, then took it down. The reporter said they were being careful not to treet Iraq like a conquered nation, so they weren't putting up flags, but he didn't know why they took down the Iraqi flag.

My Mom and I were discussing news, and she had a problem with the US flag being put on the statue -- the more jingoistic reason, the one I'll share, is that she didn't think the flag should be desecrated by being put on a statue of *that* guy. ;) She also didn't believe me when I told her that I'd read online that it had been replaced by an old Iraqi flag, then finally the statue got pulled down. There are no photos (that we've seen) of the Iraqi flag on the statue, so she said "Don't believe everything you read online." But then the Iraqi flag on the statue was mentioned in other sources, so she accepted the account. (I'll explain that neither of us had been watching TV news. She can't get to the TV with a broken ankle, and I was too tired to watch anything last night.)

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I think I was mistaken. Unless things have changed since I last heard, I think Drew was right that the looting was specifically of government offices/hotels

Perhaps I'm mistaken in my being mistaken. :wacko: I heard today that the looting was more widespread than that. Me confoozled.

Quote

for all his talk about creating a Stalingrad on the Tigris, Saddam Hussein did very little to actually prepare the capital for war. [...] now it looks as if he and his military planners were simply mind-bogglingly inept.

That's a relief. But now we have to take on Tikrit, right? And that's more heavily fortified... we think.

Quote

Prominent Shiite cleric assasinated in Najaf.

Apparently, though he was just about to deliver a pro-coalition speech, preliminary speculation is that it was not related to that but was an internal struggle for power.

There's a lot of that about. In Afghanistan in the last week, a friend of Hamid Karzai's was assassinated, but it was speculated to be one of those pesky tribal feuds and not an attempt to get Karzai, too.
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Rule#6: Remember the future.
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#133 Kosh

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 04:35 AM

Quote

Perhaps I'm mistaken in my being mistaken.  I heard today that the looting was more widespread than that. Me confoozled.


There was film of a little girl, couldn't have been much over 10. She was stealing crayons and apaper to take to school.
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#134 StarDust

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 05:28 AM

The looting depends. We are talking about a big country.

Most of the towns seem to be looting the government buildings, sort of as revenge. They showed one woman taking a window frame, like what are you going to do with that?

Now, in the big cities, Basra mostly, but also Baghdad. There has been some more looting than that. Every group has it's criminal element, after all. Look what happens way too often when LA or NY lose power!  There the soldiers have tried to start preventing it and rounding up the offenders. I believe after the coalition took the Palaces and surrounding area in Baghdad, there was some looting of government buildings the soldiers allowed, but then a handfull of individuals tried to loot the hospital and they stopped that.

#135 StarDust

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 05:37 AM

Norville, on Apr 10 2003, 08:07 PM, said:

My Mom and I were discussing news, and she had a problem with the US flag being put on the statue -- the more jingoistic reason, the one I'll share, is that she didn't think the flag should be desecrated by being put on a statue of *that* guy. ;)
I guess I don't understand your use of the word 'jingoistic' here. I've never heard it used in any way but insulting to Americans.

Why is your mother being 'jingoistic' because she thinks the Flag is too good for Saddam?

I think everything is too good for him, even the sole of a shoe.

There have been pictures of both. My understanding is both were done on purpose. And then the Iraqi flag was removed because they were pulling the statue down. Obviously, you wouldn't want either flag on there when the statue came down and hit the ground.

#136 Josh

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 05:42 AM

^

*shrug* I personally don't think it's appropriate to put up an American flag on Iraqi soil. It makes it look less like a liberating and more like a conquering. Of course, my feelings are so split on this war in the first place that it's hard for me to decide what I think is appropriate and what's not these days.
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#137 Rov Judicata

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 07:59 AM

Putting the Stars and Stripes on Iraqi soil:

I oppose. Strongly.

If there are American flags to be planted in Iraq, let them be planted by Iraqis, if they so choose. But we should be planting Iraqi flags-- to symbolize that we're giving them their country back-- not our own.

It's only fair. And I say that as someone who has consistently supported US actions.

I wouldn't go so far as to punish marines who *do* plant a flag... but it should be frowned upon and the US forces should have standing orders not to plant old glory.

My Two Cents.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#138 Rov Judicata

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Posted 11 April 2003 - 08:15 AM

Resumed here:

http://www.exisle.ne...t=ST&f=3&t=2727
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.



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