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Iraq Updates: Part IV

Iraq Updates

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#21 Lina

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Posted 06 April 2003 - 11:15 PM

Re: Russian convoy

I just heard the interview with eyewitness - OK, 2 of them on different TV channels. Summing up and translating (and I hope it will make sense, because I usually don't translate):

When they were exiting Baghdad and heading to Syria, they were told by Iraqi that they should move around the possible fight between Iraqi and Coalition forces, which they did. Unfortunately, this way around led them through Iraqi positions and when they were almost through, the fight began there too between Iraqi and Coalition forces, so the convoy got caught in cross-fire. They were fired at from both sides (which is supported by evidence - they had traces from bullets both at front and back of the cars), these 2 reporters said. They couldn't move forward because of Coalition forces, and they couldn't return because of Iraqi forces. Then fire stopped, but they had to wait for American tanks and what my dictionary calls "armo(u)red troop-carriers" to pass, because they didn't want to move and create further confusion.

5 people injured, one of them seriously and he had to undergo surgery in Faludj(sp?) - 40 km from Baghdad - and he will probably survive. Reporters decided to move on their own and some of them are now in Syria, whereas others are in Jordan. Diplomats will resume moving tomorrow, because the person with most serious injury can't be moved right away.

The story about "other vehicles" was probably inspired by the likes of diplomats, trying to attract attention of Americans in hopes that they had a medic among them (trust the media to call tank "a vehicle"!).

The story about Iraqi police was probably inspired by the fact that after the fire ended, Iraqi accompanied the convoy to Faludj(sp?), or maybe by the fact that the convoy was passing through Iraqi positions.

*Lina rolls her eyes at the media, that doesn't bother to wait and check before reporting*

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#22 Rov Judicata

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 12:31 AM

Thanks for the translation Lina. That makes a bit more sense.

It's unreal that a recon mission took out 2,000-3,000 enemy soldiers.... has anybody found an estimate on how many soldiers Baghdad has at its disposal?
St. Louis must be destroyed!

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Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#23 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 01:23 AM

Quote

Lina: I just heard the interview with eyewitness - OK, 2 of them on different TV channels. Summing up and translating (and I hope it will make sense, because I usually don't translate):

Thanks for the valiant effort Lina.  


Quote

Lina: Unfortunately, this way around led them through Iraqi positions and when they were almost through, the fight began there too between Iraqi and Coalition forces, so the convoy got caught in cross-fire.

Interesting.  CENTCOM is reporting that we had no troops in that region and were aware of the route of the convoy.  So it looks like we have two opposing stories on this one as it stands right now.    


Quote

Lina: They were fired at from both sides (which is supported by evidence - they had traces from bullets both at front and back of the cars), these 2 reporters said. .

Well just about anyone who is staging an ambush likes to hit someone from both the front and the rear.  So it could be indicative of crossfire but it could just be a well-staged ambush too.  I’ll be more convinced if they pull NATO 5.56mm out of one of the cars.  


Quote

Lina: "armo(u)red troop-carriers"

That would be like a M113 Armored Personal Carrier.  Something like the Russian BMP.  Though knowing the press they might have meant a Bradley instead.
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#24 Lina

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 01:34 AM

CJ AEGIS, on Apr 7 2003, 02:12 AM, said:

Quote

Lina: Unfortunately, this way around led them through Iraqi positions and when they were almost through, the fight began there too between Iraqi and Coalition forces, so the convoy got caught in cross-fire.

Interesting.  CENTCOM is reporting that we had no troops in that region and were aware of the route of the convoy.  So it looks like we have two opposing stories on this one as it stands right now.
When there aren't at least 2 differen stories?  :rolleyes:

It was also said that the person who had to undergo surgery, was injured by 2 bullets from M-16 (it doesn't mean anything for me, but maybe it does for you).

Frankly speaking, I think that all this is unfortunate accident. Even if CENTCOM was warned about the road this convoy was taking, the fact that they had to take a different road effectively nullifies this knowledge, IMO.

At least one of these two reporters is supposed to have video, maybe they'll show bits of it sometime tomorrow and put photos on their site.

Lina

#25 Rov Judicata

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 01:42 AM

Could this be the Iraqi use of coalition uniforms that they acquired a while back?

What better way to build tension between Russia and the US than to have the "US troops" gun down a group of diplomats?

No evidence for it yet, but call it my working theory....
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#26 tennyson

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 01:57 AM

Lina, the M16 in all its variants has been the primary assault rifle of the American military and many of its allies for the last 30 years.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

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#27 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 03:51 AM

Quote

Lina: It was also said that the person who had to undergo surgery, was injured by 2 bullets from M-16 (it doesn't mean anything for me, but maybe it does for you).

The M-16s it the standard rifle of the US military and it fires the NATO 5.56 mm rounds that I was mentioning earlier. Though I find it interesting that they said the bullets were from an M-16 rather than the same type of bullets the M-16 uses.  The NATO 5.56 mm round is used by as indicated several countries in the west and around the world.  It wouldn’t surprise me if the Iraqis even have a few 5.56 mm weapons floating around.  Typically they’d be using the 7.76 mm.  Saying what and who might come down to a matter of ballistics.  

Quote

Lina: Even if CENTCOM was warned about the road this convoy was taking, the fact that they had to take a different road effectively nullifies this knowledge, IMO.

Might be the case.  But then you have the problem that  CENTCOM says no US troops were in the area they were ambushed.  
    

Quote

Rov: Could this be the Iraqi use of coalition uniforms that they acquired a while back?

Rumor had it that the Iraqis were making replicas of US uniforms IIRC.

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 07 April 2003 - 03:52 AM.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#28 Banapis

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 07:40 AM

Reposting from the old thread in case anybody missed them:

CJ AEGIS, on Apr 5 2003, 03:47 AMC, said:

High velocity 25 mm DU shells hurt.... Apparently more than I ever thought.

Now to share two political cartoons:

Iraqi Information Ministry: (Somne cartoonist read our minds Jon)
http://cagle.slate.m...ting/bagley.gif

Mad Max in Iraq?:
http://cagle.slate.m...ating/duffy.gif

Thanks for the links CJ!

Banapis

#29 Banapis

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 08:52 AM

UPDATES from CNN:

U.S. forces strike Baghdad:
--  Raid on a Presidential Palace.

And *drumroll*

--  Iraqi Information Ministry Seized!

[edited: early reports of seizure incorrect, Reuters now saying American Forces are near the Ministry while Republican Guard forces are taking up positions]  

Banapis

Edited by Banapis, 07 April 2003 - 09:34 AM.


#30 tennyson

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 09:44 AM

Here's a link about the Kurdish position on the war and Al-Jazeera I found interesting,

http://slate.msn.com.../entry/2081193/
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#31 Rov Judicata

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 09:53 AM

Iraqi Information Minister still denies everything. "US forces are commiting suicide outside of Baghdad.". Now that's just weird. It's all a fake, Iraq controls Baghdad Int'l Airport, etc.

I note that the Iraqi information minister never DID take journalists to see the airport.... ;)
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#32 Rov Judicata

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 10:52 AM

The body of Chemical Ali has been found, according to Fox News. http://www.foxnews.c...3,83383,00.html

Excellent.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#33 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 03:10 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Apr 7 2003, 06:42 AM, said:

Iraqi Information Minister still denies everything. "US forces are commiting suicide outside of Baghdad.". Now that's just weird. It's all a fake, Iraq controls Baghdad Int'l Airport, etc.

I note that the Iraqi information minister never DID take journalists to see the airport.... ;)
I’d like to know how this guy keeps a straight face.

During the CENTCOM briefing this morning it was revealed that the latest time he said that American Forces were not in Baghdad there was a detachment of American troops down the block who wanted to drop in on him when they heard he said that. ;)
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#34 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 03:10 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Apr 7 2003, 07:41 AM, said:

The body of Chemical Ali has been found, according to Fox News. http://www.foxnews.c...3,83383,00.html
CNN is reporting the same.  I was hoping we'd get him alive to drag in for a war crimes trial.

CNN stupidity:  

“Would that Patriot missile battery you are at fire at a Scud missile if it is launched at US troops?”

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 07 April 2003 - 03:12 PM.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#35 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 03:53 PM

CENTCOM: No confirmation on Chemical Ali
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#36 eryn

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 05:32 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Apr 7 2003, 04:59 AM, said:

CNN stupidity: 

“Would that Patriot missile battery you are at fire at a Scud missile if it is launched at US troops?”
:blink: Wow... that really is stupidity...

Its almost as bad as "How much are free refills??" :p

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#37 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 07:57 PM

CNN reports that according to a Russian journalist accompanying the diplomatic convoy that got shot up, they were met by American armored vehicles when they first left Baghdad and may have gotten caught in the cross fire.

However, it was a clearly marked diplomatic convoy. The ambassador's driver had to be left in hospital en route with another staff member staying behind to look after him. :(


No direct comment as yet from the ambassadorial staff.


Also, the crawl under the bottom of the screen quotes the Iraqi Information Minister accusing Al-Jazeera of "marketing for America".  :crazy:

Ro

#38 Rov Judicata

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 09:07 PM

There are positive-- not CONCLUSIVE-- tests that show that the troops have found chemical weapons; they were led to the site by an Iraqi colonel.

This is NOT conclusive. Gut feeling: Based on how it was found, I'm betting it was real.

It appears to be Sarin, a toxic nerve agent.

This could be huge, or it could be nothing. Stay tuned.

Marines are enjoying the royal toilets in Saddam's presidential palace in Baghdad. You can't make this stuff up.....
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#39 the 'Hawk

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 09:19 PM

Well it's about bloody time.

One of the reporters asked on Saturday morning "whether this war would go down in history as the first to be won before its cause was discovered".

:cool:
“Now is the hour, Riders of Rohan, oaths you have taken! Now, fulfil them all! To lord and land!”  
~ Eomer, LotR:RotK

#40 Rov Judicata

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 09:22 PM

Hawk-- Yeah, it's been a whole two weeks :p

There's a briefing with Rumsfeld.... behind him is a scrolling screen of those who have given their lives for the cause. It's incredibly moving.....

Rumsfeld pretty much confirms Ali is dead, and recounts the civilian damage the Iraqi army has done...
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.



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