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Support Military Action vs China for Taiwan?

Bush Forign Policy China Taiwan Military Action

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74 replies to this topic

Poll: See Below: (38 member(s) have cast votes)

See Below:

  1. 1 (8 votes [21.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.05%

  2. 2 (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  3. 3 (4 votes [10.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 10.53%

  4. 4 (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  5. 5 (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  6. 6 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. 7 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. 8 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  9. 9 (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  10. 10 (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  11. 11 (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  12. 12 (5 votes [13.16%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.16%

  13. 13 (1 votes [2.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.63%

  14. 14 (2 votes [5.26%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.26%

  15. 15 (3 votes [7.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.89%

  16. 16 (6 votes [15.79%])

    Percentage of vote: 15.79%

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#1 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 04:18 PM

Would you support military action against China to defend Taiwan?
Poll Options:
1) No: I would not under action under any conditions.
2) No: I would support sanctions against China.
3) No: I would support a naval blockade and sanctions against China.

4) I don't know.

Note 5-10: Pick one of these options if you would only support military action if Taiwan made no attempt to declade independence prior to the attack.

5) Yes: I would support sending arms and money to Taiwan to aid their defense.
6) Yes: I would support sending Military Forces in the form of Naval and Air Forces to defend Taiwan in a defensive manner.
7) Yes I would support sending Naval and Air Forces to conduct offensive operations against the Chinese mainland to hinder their attack on Taiwan.
8) Yes I would support sending any military forces needed to defend Taiwan up to the point when China threatens nuclear war.
9) I would support defending Taiwan in anyway possible even if China threatened to use nuclear weapons.
10) I would support defending Taiwan in anyway possible even if China threatened to use nuclear weapons.  I would in addition support the use of economic sanctions and naval blockade after the war to prevent China from posing a threat again.

Note 11-16: Pick these options if you would support military action even if China attacked Taiwan in response to Taiwan declaring independence from the mainland.
11) Yes: I would support sending arms and money to Taiwan to aid their defense.
12) Yes: I would support sending Military Forces in the form of Naval and Air Forces to defend Taiwan in a defensive manner.
13) Yes I would support sending Naval and Air Forces to conduct offensive operations against the Chinese mainland to hinder their attack on Taiwan.
14) Yes I would support sending any military forces needed to defend Taiwan up to the point when China threatens nuclear war.
15) I would support defending Taiwan in anyway possible even if China threatened to use nuclear weapons.
16) I would support defending Taiwan in anyway possible even if China threatened to use nuclear weapons.  I would in addition support the use of economic sanctions and naval blockade after the war to prevent China from posing a threat again.
_____________________________________________________________________

I just wanted to get a idea of where people stand considering the responses in the other thread.

Additional Questions for the Thread:

What type of more detailed action would you like to see taken?
What countries should take part?

Oh and justify the answer in the thread. ;)

And my own reply will be later on in the thread.

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 14 March 2005 - 04:21 PM.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
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#2 Kosh

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 04:33 PM

I picked Number one. I don't think we need to fight china. There are just to many of them, plus they have Nukes.
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#3 Smiley

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 04:42 PM

I said one. We need to start letting other people help out. Freedom doesn't have to be given it can also be earned. Economic sanctions against China? ha. Not when we buy so much from them. So I say let this one go, unless of course they were doing something Holocaustic.
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#4 Han

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 04:47 PM

1.

It is a Chinese matter.

At most, option 5 depending on the circumstances.

Edited by Hankuang, 14 March 2005 - 04:50 PM.

Han

#5 Kimmer

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 04:57 PM

Haven't voted yet, I need to think this over; but in some respects would not the US be commited to some type of action? We have always supported a free Taiwan and if we don't support them in their bid for freedom, then shame on us. Lordy, I hope they all keep their fingers off those little red buttons.

#6 rodglas

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:09 PM

I went with 15 because I think a China that was prepared to invade or nuke Tiawan is a China that is prepared to go much further, perhaps even moving in on Japan, South Korea and other Allies.

In a lot of ways China is the most dangerous state on earth with the potential manpower and resourses available to them.  I really don't think China would invade Tiawan unless they had exploited these resourses to the fullest.

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#7 Ilphi

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:17 PM

I went with option 3: "I would support a naval blockade and sanctions against China."

A naval blockade and economic sactions would play to Western strengths and work against Chinese weaknesses. A land incursion would be a logistical nightmare for the West, but on the waves Western technology reigns supreme, air defense from AEGIS as well as other modern systems would provide a decent bastion for the fleet as well as combat patrols. I've read different reports varying in their pessimism about China's out-of-area capablitiy, but the estimates about how long they can maintain a logistics train vary from around 30-90 days. A blockade can engage any naval supply routes. The blockade would also prevent the massive amount of imports that the hungry, ever-growing Chinese economy is buying (talk to your local scrap metal industry. Chances are, a Chinese company is trying to get as much of their goods as possible) which would make the Chinese executive think twice.
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#8 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:21 PM

Myself I support Option 15.  

The US has made it known for years that we would support Taiwan against agression from the mainland.  Myself I think Taiwan has every right to declare their autonomy from China whenever they decide to do so.  China created the current situation of the US supporting Taiwan in such a steadfast manner via their intervention in the Korean War and behavior from the seperation of Taiwan to the present.    Taiwan has earned the right to choosr their own path and we should support that.

If that means a military showdown with China then so be it.  If it comes down to nuclear war and we back down then China will know we don't have the guts to keep going when push comes to shove.  In addition with the SM-3 plus NMD we could hodgepodge together a ballistic missile defense for the United States and our territories.  In terms of deploying land forces I would only support deploying them into Taiwan.  A land incursion into China would be a diaster of the highest order.  That said using naval and land based air to strike at China's industry and military would be a must.

My own opinion is that if we fought such a war and drove back China then we had better following it make sure that China can't pose a similar threat once again.  For that reason I would support a continuation of the naval blockade and sanctions until China gives into that pressure.
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
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        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#9 Gefiltefishmon

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 05:35 PM

In order to keep our country going we need Asia, and China specifically, to purchase 2 Billion dollars every single day - if they do not, our current account collapses and we grind to an immediate halt. Not our business and not our concern. At some point, Taiwan needs to be able to stand up to China on it's own or face the inevitable and rejoin China.

Just my $.02
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#10 Nonny

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 07:23 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Mar 14 2005, 02:21 PM, said:

Myself I support Option 15....

My own opinion is that if we fought such a war and drove back China then we had better following it make sure that China can't pose a similar threat once again.  For that reason I would support a continuation of the naval blockade and sanctions until China gives into that pressure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isn't that option 16?  I voted for option 16 because I believe in a free and independent Taiwan.  I'd hate to see China get the opportunity to wreck Taiwan the way they've wrecked Hong Kong.  

Nonny
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#11 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 07:28 PM

That is what I meant. ;)  Opps....  My own poll confuses me. ;)
"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#12 Nonny

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 07:31 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Mar 14 2005, 04:28 PM, said:

That is what I meant. ;)  Opps....  My own poll confuses me. ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:lol:
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#13 emsparks

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 08:32 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2....law/index.html

There will not be a war; such a war scares the hell out of me. What scares me more is how many billions of dollars of US debt china has bought up. I tried to bring this point up a month or two ago, now we see it beginning to be played out.

China sees Taiwan as the last of the rebellious provinces to be subdued in the Chinese civil war. A war that, it appears not to be over just yet…

The point being: that when dealing with china and Korea we have to understand that the orient has a different understanding of time then we the occidental do.

So refresh my memory did we ever sign a peace treaty over the Korean War?

Edited by emsparks, 14 March 2005 - 08:35 PM.

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#14 Spectacles

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 09:14 PM

I worry about how on earth we're going to pay for the Iraq War, which is running around 200 billion now, on top of our debt--which, as Gefiltefishmon points out, China is helping to finance.  So, I'm not much up for a war with China these days. I think sanctions would be appropriate, and I hope it ends at that--if it comes to that. And since it wouldn't be in either China's interest or ours for us to go to war, I think--hope--that the cooler heads in this conflict will prevail.
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#15 tennyson

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 09:50 PM

No, a peace treaty was never signed to end the Korean War. This has just been one of the longest if not the longest cease fire in the history of humankind.
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#16 Douglas

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 09:58 PM

I voted for #12.

#17 Nick

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 11:37 PM

I wonder what would happen if the U.S. simply defaulted on all of its debt to China.  Would it wreck their economy?  Would it wreck ours?  Or would they barely notice . . . I'd certainly support sanctions, and the U.S. stepping in if China invaded WITHOUT Taiwan declaring independance . . . but once they do . . . well . . . they need to be prepared to fight their own battle of independance.  A war between the U.S. and China would be disastrous for both countries, and not something I'd want to see.  Perhaps we can knock out their government or instigate a sucessful Chinese rebellion instead . . . Frankly, as was mentioned, a land war against China (and likely on their turf) won't be pretty to say the least.

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#18 Norville

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 11:43 PM

CJ AEGIS said:

1) No: I would not under action under any conditions.

Pardon me, CJ, is this meant to read "I would not support action under any conditions"? I appear to be the only one asking for clarification on that one, but hey. ;)

That's not necessarily the one I'm going for; I need to reflect on this a whole lot more. The concept of our trying to take on China militarily leaves me :crazy: .
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#19 G1223

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Posted 14 March 2005 - 11:46 PM

I favor supporting the people of Taiwan if they seek to form their own nation. I favor using the means we have to defend this nation. I feel leaving it to the monsters in humans skins on the mainland is the clearest signal to our allies in the region we will abandon you to China.
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#20 FnlPrblm

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Posted 15 March 2005 - 04:09 AM

I picked Option 1.  However, if China did in fact decide to pull a Hitler and claim Japan should be part of their collective claiming it was once in historical times colonized by Chinese (note: the Japanese lang. is an offshoot of an early Chinese), I'd be for standing up to their incurrsions.  But that is a different thread.  This is for Foremosa, which was their's in modern times.  Taiwan wouldn't stand a chance in defending against the Chinese no matter what kind of military they had (or we had defending them).  It would only be a matter of time before China would eventually over power them.

I would think supply lines for the U.S. would be stretched a bit, even with using Japan as a center (which doesn't mean they would let us either).

As far as the Chinese people in general look at the situation, it's still Foremosa as Lincoln viewed the South (it was still the southern half of the U.S. no matter what you declare yourselves).  The Brits and the French both ending up to know better than get themselves involved in the U.S. Civil War.  I tend to look at it the same way.  Hong Kong isn't wrecked (don't know where you got that they did Nonny).  From what I've read (for the most part at least) they have kept out of Hong Kong's path, even though they have threatened it from time to time.  One could in a way look at an administration in the U.S. who puts the hex on Hollywood and the Music industry as a similar situation.  "The government's oppressing or depressing creative freedom", one might be heard saying.  There are of course clear questionable things China has done to Hong Kong, but nothing completely unheard of or without some sort of two-sided arguementive reasoning.

Anyway, sorry (getting wayeee off track).  Historically, I view China as one of the more intelligent countries in the world.  I'm not sure, but I don't think they would pull the trigger on nukes.  Nukes really just don't make any sense at all in general.  (again another thread)  Economic sacntions not only hurt us, but for them to really really work, you at the very least must have several other key countries which will also abandon all trade with China (or whomever).  Even then, they don't always work (since it would just require a middle man of a neighboring country to smuggle stuff between).  I think we all contend that an all out land war would end in annihaltion of the attacking forces against China.  Heck, I doubt we'd be able to take Shanghi alone.

Finally and kind of revisiting a point earlier, a friend of mine was born in China (now a U.S. citz.), this topic has been spoken about this several times.  He believes that Taiwan should be part of China once again.  It's like a brother who had a big fight and left, but he's still part of the family and they want him to be a part of it (whether he want's to or not).  Family and honor are still a big part of their society and to stain either is almost an ultimate offense.
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