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If Fox News was around for other historical events

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#41 the 'Hawk

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 08:51 PM

Cardie, on Apr 7 2003, 12:23 PM, said:

So 'Hawk, I wish I'd known you occasionally graced the Palmetto State. We could have met. April is beautiful this year, though we're currently having a cold wave--it's 60 degrees
My dear moderator-- I look outside presently and see snow a foot deep, with temperatures thirty degrees below yours, and I can wholeheartedly assure you.... you're NOT having a cold wave. ;)

And, this was some three years ago now. But I do know which parts of South Carolina I would most definitely want to take a closer look at the next time I am there. We crisscrossed the state from Clemson to Myrtle Beach by way of Charleston. I saw it. I just didn't see it nearly as closely as I had hoped.

Though I do recall one of the buildings at Clemson being named after Senator Thurmond. Which impressed me both because it's so rare in Canada for a public building to be named after a living person, and because of the fact that I recognized the name even though I didn't study the 1948 election campaign until just this year.

Though I really have to stop sounding like such a smarty-pants. People might confuse me for a liberal. ;)

:cool:
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#42 the 'Hawk

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 09:10 PM

Cardie, on Apr 7 2003, 12:23 PM, said:

There's got to be some reason that the South suddenly went Republican in the late sixties, after being solidly Democrat (read Dixiecrat) since the War of Northern Aggression.
The war of what now? Need I remind you which state was the first to secede from what Union, now? :D

Um, let me check.... yeah. I mentioned the 1948 election here and (I think) in another thread recently. After that, Southern Republicans (no longer Dixiecrats) simply were allowed to exist because the Republican party did the same thing to their racism as waiters did to Rhea's Moroccan friend --simply looked the other way.

Now, when these politicians, who tacitly represented their constituency's beliefs, lumps and all, switched parties, the votes went with them. Why? Because there was, and still is, a lot of power tied up in having your senator on the right committees, and Southern senators like Thurmond tend to dominate all the right committees.

A lot of it, too, had to do with registered voting. I mean, there's stories all over the South of black voters turning out to vote, and being told they forgot to pay a poll tax by a certain date, or that they needed to bring some identification with them, or that they couldn't vote for some other reason. Either that, or they simply were discouraged from registering to vote. And if you think it didn't happen, believe me, it did.

Institutional racism was actually one of the many reasons for such vigourous protest against the Vietnam war. Due to the Selective Service passing over students who were registered at any college, university, or post-secondary institution, the majority of the draft quotas came from poorer neighbourhoods-- specifically those dominated by black or Hispanic populations. The reason for it is no different than the $300 'substitution' fee applied to the Union draft in the Civil War-- a rich man's war, a poor man's fight.

The LBJ administration, however, was critical (if I recall) in passing civil rights legislation and making it stick in the South. This was a double betrayal to the Southern constituencies who pressed the supremacy issue to their Senators: not only was civil rights against their notion of order..... but LBJ was from Texas. What kind of Southerner loyal to the Lost Cause and the Ol' South would support civil rights legislation? Only a Democrat would do such a thing. (Ironically, both FDR and JFK had tacitly refused to take on the matter throughout their administrations, both of which --and I only say this because it's interesting, not because I'm trying to draw a causal connection-- had their administration cut short by death.)

Nixon and the lame-duck administrations simply allowed civil rights to continue on its course --after events like Selma, Alabama and the Watts riots, middle America started to realize the importance of civil rights and make it a part of their own.

But one of the curious things about the twin national political machines of the Democrats and Republicans is their ability to enhance certain issues in certain areas, and obfuscate the differences, even contradictions, in their approach to the Union as a whole. Republicans under Nixon, Ford and after remained neutral on the course of civil rights, while their national party did what it could to build what's become known as "the emerging Republican majority". Liberals will consume themselves time and again -- I've never heard of a liberal political organization in my studies of American history that didn't. The safe bet, then (or so went the Republican thinking) is to stay right of centre, and slightly conservative. That Reagan came along and tipped the balance way the hell over is later stuff. At the time, all Nixon had to do was present a less liberal, 'pinko' sounding agenda than George McGovern, in the right states of the Union, to dominate the Electoral College. He played the game in '68. That's how he won. That's why the USA didn't get out of 'nam until 1975, after Nixon shoulda been in jail.

I'm rambling again. Am I liberal yet?

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#43 Cardie

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 09:20 PM

I was joking about the cold wave, of course. They even have Canada Days at Myrtle Beach to honor all the Snowbirds who do spend October through March on our sunny shores. I live in Columbia, the state capital, whose tourist value is basically nil. ("Columbia, you could do worse" is my suggestion for city motto.) But Charleston is super for the military history buff. And if you ever do visit Columbia, I could introduce you to Walter Edgar in our history dept. who knows everything there is to know about South Carolina.

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#44 the 'Hawk

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 09:33 PM

One of my many dreams is to take a car trip along Sherman's March to the Sea. I think he went through Columbia, and some day, I would love to do the same---- without, of course, the pillaging and the burning and the whatnot. ;)

And, of course, poor ol' Charleston. I would love to go there just to see where it all started.

What can I say, until we have a Civil War up here in Canada, I'll have to settle for the blue and the grey.

:cool:
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#45 Cardie

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 11:05 PM

the'Hawk, on Apr 7 2003, 01:22 PM, said:

One of my many dreams is to take a car trip along Sherman's March to the Sea. I think he went through Columbia, and some day, I would love to do the same---- without, of course, the pillaging and the burning and the whatnot. ;)
He did indeed go through Columbia, burning down everything from the antebellum period except the university. That's why we look at people funny when they ask about Columbia's historic district.

If you ever make the March, be sure to look me up.

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#46 Rhea

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Posted 07 April 2003 - 11:12 PM

the'Hawk, on Apr 7 2003, 10:22 AM, said:

One of my many dreams is to take a car trip along Sherman's March to the Sea. I think he went through Columbia, and some day, I would love to do the same---- without, of course, the pillaging and the burning and the whatnot. ;)

And, of course, poor ol' Charleston. I would love to go there just to see where it all started.

What can I say, until we have a Civil War up here in Canada, I'll have to settle for the blue and the grey.

:cool:
ROTFLMAO! I'm SO happy that we could accommodate you in the absence of a civil war of your own.  :p  :p
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#47 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 12:02 AM

Quote

Hawk: What can I say, until we have a Civil War up here in Canada, I'll have to settle for the blue and the grey.

Oooh another reason to invade.  Securing the peace… :)


Quote

Hawk: I'm rambling again. Am I liberal yet?

*cough*  Your Green Marxist theory for International Relations. *cough* ;)
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#48 MichaelHinman

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 02:15 AM

I read through the list ... and some of it was funny, some of it was OK.

I am unfamiliar with the background .. was this stuff that visitors simply submitted?

I think they should've broken it down to several pages ... it took forever to open the page -- even with a high speed connection.
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#49 the 'Hawk

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 02:23 AM

Rhea, on Apr 7 2003, 03:01 PM, said:

I'm SO happy that we could accommodate you in the absence of a civil war of your own.
Well, you know, but the Americans having a civil war *did* accommodate Canada. I doubt Confederation would've happened without our pansy colonial asses getting all jittery about the Union Army having more men than New Brunswick had people.

And trust me, if Quebec ever develops weapons of mass destruction, y'all will be gettin' one hell of a phone call. (As it is, having so many lame-duck prime ministers from Quebec is WMD enough for me.)

And Cardie--- if I ever get down south again, you're on.

:cool:
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#50 the 'Hawk

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 02:26 AM

CJ AEGIS, on Apr 7 2003, 03:51 PM, said:

Oooh another reason to invade.  Securing the peace…
Heh. You guys have laser-guided bombs. We have Sea Kings dropping out of the sky. No contest.

As it stands, it's Canadian military policy to evacuate all government functions to the "icebelt" and sue for peace. We wouldn't last five minutes. You guys even bought out our doughnut shops. All Rummy would have to do is snarl in our general direction and we'd surrender. I could make jokes blaming that on the French-Canadians, but then they'd secede.

:cool:
“Now is the hour, Riders of Rohan, oaths you have taken! Now, fulfil them all! To lord and land!”  
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#51 Kosh

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 02:38 AM

Quote

("Columbia, you could do worse" is my suggestion for city motto.)

LOL That's perfect.

I used to visit Columbia. You can get to a lot of nice parks and the like from there, and Charleston is not to far for a day trip. Good food there too. You could do worse!





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#52 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 07:18 AM

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Hawk: Heh. You guys have laser-guided bombs. We have Sea Kings dropping out of the sky. No contest.

Ah but it says something about the aircrews intestinal fortitude or at least sanity that they fly the things… ;)  You’re kidding; the government still hasn’t replaced the air to mud ordnance?  That was months ago and I had hoped by now they had done something.

Quote

Hawk: You guys even bought out our doughnut shops.

We have the donut shops? :D  Donut embargo. ;)  Or replace them with Dunkin Donuts…
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#53 Belbo

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 10:18 AM

Rhea, on Apr 7 2003, 05:25 PM, said:

Or Texas (I know from firsthand experience, having lived there)..Or Georgia...or Louisiana...or any number of other states. Racism is alive and well - it's just gone slightly underground.
Perhaps not that far underground - didn't the Louisiana Republicans run a Nazi and Imperial Grand Wizard in the KKK for the senate back in the last Bush administration? He got the majority of the local white vote, too, IIRC.  :o
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#54 the 'Hawk

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 01:15 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Apr 7 2003, 11:07 PM, said:

You’re kidding; the government still hasn’t replaced the air to mud ordnance?  That was months ago and I had hoped by now they had done something.
I don't know-- the only thing they're good for is screwing the military in the tail-rotor.

And you're right: Sea King crews are heroes. Definitely. Anyone who gets in one of those deserves a medal.

:cool:
“Now is the hour, Riders of Rohan, oaths you have taken! Now, fulfil them all! To lord and land!”  
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#55 QueenTiye

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 04:49 PM

the'Hawk, on Apr 7 2003, 06:15 PM, said:

You guys even bought out our doughnut shops. All Rummy would have to do is snarl in our general direction and we'd surrender. I could make jokes blaming that on the French-Canadians, but then they'd secede.

:cool:
First off... no bashing French-Canadians.  On GP.  

Second of all... we bought out your donuts???  Who did that?  Seriously, I want to know!  If Dunkin' Donuts bought them out, we did you a favor - Dunkin Donuts has the best coffee on the planet.. (oh, and the donuts are pretty good too! LOL)

QT

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#56 the 'Hawk

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 04:54 PM

The Tim Horton's doughnut chain was acquired a couple years back now, by the same people who run Wendy's Restaurants. That's why so many Wendy's restaurants built recently have a Tim Horton's right next door.

I don't think Dunkin Donuts had anything to do with it. And I don't drink coffee. So I don't really care.

My home town, a city of 48,000 people, has something between eight and twelve of these Tim Horton's shops within its city limits. There literally is no escape. It's one of the reasons I don't drink coffee: vive le resistance. :D

And I don't know what "on GP" means, but I do know that mocking French-Canadians is mocking one of the best parts of Canada. I say that because, if I don't, they'll secede.

:cool:
“Now is the hour, Riders of Rohan, oaths you have taken! Now, fulfil them all! To lord and land!”  
~ Eomer, LotR:RotK

#57 QueenTiye

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 06:05 PM

the'Hawk, on Apr 8 2003, 08:43 AM, said:

The Tim Horton's doughnut chain was acquired a couple years back now, by the same people who run Wendy's Restaurants. That's why so many Wendy's restaurants built recently have a Tim Horton's right next door.

Ah.  Wendy's.  My sympathies then.

Quote

There literally is no escape. It's one of the reasons I don't drink coffee: vive le resistance. :D

Resistance is futile!  Everyone should drink coffee! :p

Quote

And I don't know what "on GP" means, but I do know that mocking French-Canadians is mocking one of the best parts of Canada. I say that because, if I don't, they'll secede.

:cool:


"GP" means General Principal.

QT

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#58 the 'Hawk

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 06:09 PM

QueenTiye, on Apr 8 2003, 10:54 AM, said:

Resistance is futile!  Everyone should drink coffee!
I will NEVAH SURRENDAH!!!!! NEVAH NEVAH!!!!

:cool:
“Now is the hour, Riders of Rohan, oaths you have taken! Now, fulfil them all! To lord and land!”  
~ Eomer, LotR:RotK

#59 eryn

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Posted 08 April 2003 - 06:50 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Apr 7 2003, 09:07 PM, said:

You’re kidding; the government still hasn’t replaced the air to mud ordnance?  That was months ago and I had hoped by now they had done something.
You're kidding right?? Our govenrnment buy replacements for the Sea Kings??

*snicker* That would mean that our Prime Minister would care. :p

They were supposed to be replaced back in the early 90's but that fell through when Chretien came in power. Cost us 500 million in cancellation fees... Oi, and people wonder why I don't respect Chretien and the Federal Liberal party. :p ;)

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