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Cardinal Asks Catholics to Shun Da Vinci

Catholics Media Da Vinci Code Movie Catholics shun Religion

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#21 Davesnothome

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 01:31 PM

The author and publisher would like to thank the Catholic church for adding an unknown number of sales of the book. I'm also certain Tom Hanks, who will star in the movie based upon the book, will also give his thanks for adding to the potential box office take for the film. He could use the success, after a few missteps in recent films!

Dave

#22 Norville

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 02:30 PM

Jid said:

Personally, the only real problem I have with Dan Brown's books is that he starts each one with the claim "The story is fictional, but all the stuff in it is accurate" (my paraphrase) - which is rather misleading in several ways.

My major problem with Dan Brown's books is how bad a writer I think he is -- he does (or has done for him by a team) intense research, and he puts on an exciting pace, but his characters bore me silly -- pure Hollywood cardboard. "I don't care what happens to these people" are the Eight Words of Doom.

Cheile said:

i know plenty of Christians who are avid Harry Potter fans and it has not swayed them from their faith.

I was really surprised to see a Harry Potter movie playing on the Family Channel (a US cable channel). I remember that channel being owned by Pat Robertson years ago. So, is that no longer the case, or is a Christian channel *actually* playing the "satanic" Harry Potter? :wideeyed:
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#23 offworlder

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 02:44 PM

if the Cardinal had a problem, it might be about that claim, that all the rituals and technical stuff and details are real and not fiction, and readers or public may 'extend' that or not understand the claim per se, and think that means the theories and premise is also not fiction, and believe ... if Anyone knows how people can leap to belief ... it's the very church that called them to a couple thousand years ago; I mean, they ARE in the belief biz? (now, don't think I'm slamming, I am actually a Christian... but just making the point)

now for my lil bit o sacriledge this Paddy's day:

I think the Cardinal and his church, seeing what happened with the Passion and how Mel can now finance anything he wants and buy twenty estates ... invested in this new movie under the table, and is now doing the reverse-promo game. *ducking now
"(Do you read what they say online?) I check out all these scandalous rumours about me and Elijah Wood having beautiful sex with each other ... (are they true?) About Elijah and me being boyfriend and boyfriend? Absolutely true. We've been together for about nine years. I wooed him. No I just like a lot of stuff - I like that someone says one thing and it becomes fact. It's kind of fun." --Dominic Monaghan in a phone interview with Newsweek while buying DVDs at the store. :D

#24 Jid

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 02:47 PM

Norville, on Mar 17 2005, 12:30 PM, said:

My major problem with Dan Brown's books is how bad a writer I think he is -- he does (or has done for him by a team) intense research,
And yet he still manages to get so many things wrong (or else deliberately misrepresents them).
cervisiam tene rem specta

#25 Pallas

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 03:46 PM

The Da Vinci Code is fascinating in research but craptacular in writing. I hate Dan Brown's writing style because he forgot the "style" part. I'm not surprised that the Vatican would condemn this book but then, the Vatican has a history of banning books it doesn't like. I remember this one story my history prof told us about how the Catholic Church use to have list of banned books (shortly after the invention of the printing press) that good Catholics were not supposed to read and all it did was fuel the fire for this book so eventually, the list itself was added to the list.
So...*applauds the Vatican for another well-thoughout decision*

Ps: getting children to read is a difficult task. If they like to read things like Harry Potter and Captain Underpants, kudos. It beats the tv.

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We can do noble acts without ruling the earth and sea--Aristotle

#26 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 03:59 PM

Damn it. Now I have to go out an buy and read this book. I'm sure as hell not going to let an institution that prides itself on protecting its molesting priests tell me what not to read.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#27 Guldorak

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 05:03 PM

People should avoid at all cost not because of the "religious" content but because of its with wooden prose, its cardboard characters and the obvious twists in the story.

#28 Elara

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 08:58 PM

offworlder, on Mar 17 2005, 02:44 PM, said:

now for my lil bit o sacriledge this Paddy's day:

I think the Cardinal and his church, seeing what happened with the Passion and how Mel can now finance anything he wants and buy twenty estates ... invested in this new movie under the table, and is now doing the reverse-promo game. *ducking now

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


~lol~ Instead of leading the snakes (evil) out, they are pulling them in and making a few bucks, eh? ~wink~

As StevenQ and others have said, what they did was make this book a best seller, curiousity sells.

I understand how they might be bothered by this, but faith is always questioned and tested throughout life. If a book made or broke relgion, then there would either be no religions at all or we would all be of the same faith throughout the world.

The fuss over the Harry Potter books always gives me a chuckle. In wizardry/Paganism there is no devil, that is a Christian made being.
El
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I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#29 Norville

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 09:41 PM

Jid said:

Norville said:

My major problem with Dan Brown's books is how bad a writer I think he is -- he does (or has done for him by a team) intense research,
And yet he still manages to get so many things wrong (or else deliberately misrepresents them).

You're not going to get *me* to defend Dan Brown's writing. :hehe: I didn't say a thing about his research being "correct" -- in fact, I was going to make some snarky remark about the "intense research" being research into conspiracy theories. Since I didn't previously, I'm doing so now. ;)

Granted, he got the vicious NASA politics right in Deception Point, but I found that book so tedious to endure, I can't say if he got anything else right.

Kalistria said:

The Da Vinci Code is fascinating in research but craptacular in writing.

You're so right. I've read all his books so far, simply due to the pressure of so many people drooling over his stuff. Generally, I go my own way with reading, and rarely read best-sellers unless they're books I was tempted to read in any case; I much prefer to find less popular (and possibly better) books. Fear for me -- I'm probably going to read the book he's working on now when it comes out, just so I can say that I did. :fear:

Kalistria said:

I hate Dan Brown's writing style because he forgot the "style" part.

He has an "I'm trying so hard to write a Hollywood blockbuster!" style. That's it.
"The dew has fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning."
- Marvin the Paranoid Android, "Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"

Rules for Surviving an Autocracy
Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
http://www.nybooks.c...s-for-survival/

#30 Pallas

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 11:39 PM

Norville...

Quote

You're so right. I've read all his books so far, simply due to the pressure of so many people drooling over his stuff. Generally, I go my own way with reading, and rarely read best-sellers unless they're books I was tempted to read in any case; I much prefer to find less popular (and possibly better) books. Fear for me -- I'm probably going to read the book he's working on now when it comes out, just so I can say that I did.
I agree with you because I'm probably going to do the same thing. The problem with Brown's style is that he writes like his audience is stupid and every little tedious detail must be explained. I think his books are like airplane books...the stuff you read on the plane to mindlessly pass time.

Quote

He has an "I'm trying so hard to write a Hollywood blockbuster!" style. That's it
And the scary part is that it worked.

Kalistria
We can do noble acts without ruling the earth and sea--Aristotle

#31 WildChildCait

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 03:55 AM

Elara,

To quote Sandra Bullock 'There is no devil in the craft'
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#32 Elara

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Posted 18 March 2005 - 11:20 AM

Chaddee, on Mar 18 2005, 03:55 AM, said:

Elara,

To quote Sandra Bullock 'There is no devil in the craft'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


~.~ Exactly.
El
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I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#33 Chakotay

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Posted 19 March 2005 - 10:26 AM

I think the cardinal would be better exercised getting the the original 'Holy Blood and Holy Grail' (which the Da Vinci code is based on) off the shelves next to the Bibles and Koran, and onto the fiction shelves where it too belongs.
  No plan survives first contact with the enemy - military axiom.

#34 Nonny

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 01:15 PM

Steven_Q, on Mar 17 2005, 07:49 AM, said:

he's not calling for debate, he's calling for censorship.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly.  

Kevin Street, on Mar 17 2005, 08:40 AM, said:

To me, the popularity of "Da Vinci Code" would seem to indicate a willingness on the part of its readers to question basic aspects of doctrine, and that's nice to see. People with lively, open minds question everything, and if many Catholics are reading the book and questioning their faith in this way it says something good about the modern Catholic Church. Imo. Closed faiths that do not permit criticism and examination (like some of the ones the Cardinal refers to) help no one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The current leadership of the Catholic Church is not happy about open, questioning minds.  

Steven_Q, on Mar 17 2005, 09:57 AM, said:

Actaully, it's a little worrying how little faith this Cardinal seems to have in his flock.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No kidding.  

Kevin Street, on Mar 17 2005, 10:08 AM, said:

If the Cardinal actually had the power to pull "Da Vinci Code" out of the bookstores that would be another matter entirely, but all he can really do is express his opinion, and everybody is entitled to that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my lifetime, his kind have had that power.  No book without the "imprimatur" was allowed to be read by Catholics, and I'm pretty sure Catholic booksellers were bullied and intimdated into keeping such books off their shelves.  This finally ended the year I left the church.  

When withholding the "imprimatur," church officials were doing more than expressing their opinions, they were committing acts of censorship.  Before the imprimatur, the Vatican also controlled information.  No one was allowed to so much as write down their own thoughts without the permission of the pope or a bishop.  Since most people couldn't write and all scribes were clerics (hence the word 'clerk'), all tpww had to do was assign or refuse you a scribe.  

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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#35 Nonny

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 01:16 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Mar 17 2005, 12:59 PM, said:

Damn it. Now I have to go out an buy and read this book. I'm sure as hell not going to let an institution that prides itself on protecting its molesting priests tell me what not to read.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:thumbs-up:
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#36 Lover of Purple

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Posted 22 March 2005 - 01:22 PM

Steven_Q, on Mar 17 2005, 09:57 AM, said:

Actaully, it's a little worrying how little faith this Cardinal seems to have in his flock.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


On this we agree 100%!!!

LoP

#37 woody000

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 06:40 AM

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but I've only just got around to reading the book and decided to do a search to see what was said on this forum.

The real problem here is that too many people take it seriously. Any scholar who has studied these matters could see clearly that it has so many holes it isn't even worth worrying about. For them, taking it seriously is laughable. But the problem is, most people don't realise this! There are many things in the book which are spoken as if they are fact, when in reality, they're either theory, or even worse, they are just plain WRONG. A friend of mine (a non-christian) read this book and was totally appalled, as are many who are in-the-know. If the author made it clear that it is for the most part fiction, then it would be fine, but he doesn't. Too many things are presented as facts when they shouldn't be.

I'm certainly no fan of the catholic church, I criticise them heavily, but I can understand how they feel on this one. (Having said that I don't see the benefit of what they said, really, what good is that going to do? If anything it will make more people read it.)

Edited by woody000, 23 August 2005 - 06:49 AM.


#38 Nonny

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 07:34 AM

woody000, on Aug 23 2005, 03:40 AM, said:

The real problem here is that too many people take it seriously.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly the point I was making about The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine.  :)

woody000, on Aug 23 2005, 03:40 AM, said:

Any scholar who has studied these matters could see clearly that it has so many holes it isn't even worth worrying about.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that's The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, all right.  :)

woody000, on Aug 23 2005, 03:40 AM, said:

For them, taking it seriously is laughable. But the problem is, most people don't realise this! There are many things in the book which are spoken as if they are fact, when in reality, they're either theory, or even worse, they are just plain WRONG. A friend of mine (a non-christian) read this book and was totally appalled, as are many who are in-the-know. If the author made it clear that it is for the most part fiction, then it would be fine, but he doesn't. Too many things are presented as facts when they shouldn't be.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine.  :)  

woody000, on Aug 23 2005, 03:40 AM, said:

I'm certainly no fan of the catholic church, I criticise them heavily, but I can understand how they feel on this one. (Having said that I don't see the benefit of what they said, really, what good is that going to do? If anything it will make more people read it.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I said in my original post in this thread:

Quote

And once this genius proves that Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction, maybe he'll set about to prove that The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine isn't.
Though I continue to look forward to that day, I won't be holding my breath.

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#39 woody000

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 08:03 AM

I don't really see what that has got to do with the subject at hand. And I also would say that using other people's words like that is not in the spirit of debate.

Maybe I'm not understanding what this "Confraternity of Christian Doctrine" is, I am after all not catholic, but the thing to realise is that Christianity doesn't claim to be able to prove anything, it is a religion based on faith, not a science. (No matter how much those ID people like to pretend it is.) The problems with the Da Vinci code are related to SCIENCE, which is by definition based on fact and some facts are being ignored in the book, favouring complete falsehoods.

And yet, the point you seem to be making about Christian Doctrine is rather over the top as well. The matters you talk about are debatable, (I assume, unless you speak of something purely catholic, something which is not carried into other denominations.) there is nothing directly false. But, for example, the origin of the word "Yahweh" in the Da Vinci Code is completely wrong. There's no escaping that, and no leading scholar would try to. That is a flat out lie masquerading as science.

EDIT: In fact, my main concern about this book is not really anything religious at all. Other books have appeared, taking the theories literally, it has produced a brand of bad and inaccurate science which is very worrying.

Edited by woody000, 23 August 2005 - 08:05 AM.


#40 Nonny

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 08:56 AM

woody000, on Aug 23 2005, 05:03 AM, said:

Maybe I'm not understanding what this "Confraternity of Christian Doctrine" is, I am after all not catholic....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine is the catechism force fed to Catholic schoolchildren, who are required to swallow it whole without question.  Once the children discover that they will be severely punished for asking the tiniest question and give up asking questions, they are informed that the grim fairy tales they've just swallowed whole are their "faith" and that they must adhere to it till the day they die or face eternal retribution from their assigned deity.  It's one of those "I do this because I love you" things so beloved of brutal parents.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot



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