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Cardinal Asks Catholics to Shun Da Vinci

Catholics Media Da Vinci Code Movie Catholics shun Religion

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#41 woody000

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 08:58 AM

Oh, in that case I agree with you technically, but I still don't think that has any baring on the issue about the Da Vinci code.

#42 Nonny

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 09:05 AM

Nonny, on Mar 17 2005, 04:57 AM, said:

And once this genius proves that Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction  :sarcasm:  :sarcasm:  :sarcasm:  :sarcasm:  :sarcasm: , maybe he'll set about to prove that The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine isn't.  :angry:   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I started this thread with the above comment on the article I quoted.  Your comments below imply an attempt to turn my thread into something it isn't.  

woody000, on Aug 23 2005, 05:58 AM, said:

Oh, in that case I agree with you technically, but I still don't think that has any baring on the issue about the Da Vinci code.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My thread is all about two works of fiction, The Da Vinci Code, a work of fiction I enjoyed very much, and The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine, not so much.

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#43 woody000

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 09:07 AM

Right, fair enough, your thread- your topic.

For the record I did enjoy The Da Vinci Code as a work of fiction. I just didn't like the after-effects of its success.

#44 Nonny

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 09:12 AM

woody000, on Aug 23 2005, 06:07 AM, said:

For the record I did enjoy The Da Vinci Code as a work of fiction. I just didn't like the after-effects of its success.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fair enough.  I could say the same about catechism, except I didn't enjoy it.  :pout:  So much scope for angering nuns.   :ninjadeath:  

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

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Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#45 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 10:26 AM

Well thanks to the Pope, and Roman Catholic Church, wanting to try and ban this book...I went out and bought it. Finished reading it awhile agao. Actually the book was quite good. And I can most definately understand why the Church is afraid.

Yes, it is a work of fiction, but it does raise some very interesting points...and it does question the whole Church...And that's just something that the church can't allow.
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#46 Cheile

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 01:28 PM

they'll get over it and find something else to whine about because in the end, those of us who believe in God (and FTR i'm Protestant NOT Catholic) will continue to believe and enjoying this, that or the other book will not change that belief.

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#47 Zwolf

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Posted 23 August 2005 - 02:54 PM

It's very strange how some people are practically making some works of fiction into part of the accepted canon.  I've got a co-worker who practically considers the Left Behind series part of the gospel.  She spouts some veeerrrrry strange stuff.

Weird thing about the DaVinci Code: a friend of mine works as a talent scout for TV shows (although he's thinking about finding another line of work because he hates reality shows, and he says they're not really planning anything else but reality shows in the forseeable future).  One show he worked on casting is some weird reality-show that's kind of like a treasure hunt, based on the DaVinci Code.   I have no clue how such a thing would work, but people are supposed to take clues from the book and seek things out and compete against each other or something.  Why The DaVinci Code, though, I dunno...

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#48 Norville

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Posted 24 August 2005 - 09:16 PM

Quote

I've got a co-worker who practically considers the Left Behind series part of the gospel. She spouts some veeerrrrry strange stuff.

Yep. I know of people who believe everything that series says. Someone told me I absolutely *must* read it, because it's The Truth, and I must prepare. Yes, okay, thanks very much, not all of us believe in the Rapture, please go proselytize someone else...
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#49 deMona

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 02:16 AM

the davinci code is nothing but anti-catholic propaganda, aimed at undermining the faith of unscrupulous catholics by spewing lies and legend as fact and history.   the cardinal, as a shephard and teacher is doing the responsible thing warning the faithful about it.   and is it really so much to ask that blatantly anti-catholic books not be sold at catholic bookstores??

and guys, lets read the article a little more carefully, shall we?  i don't see anywhere that anyone has tried to ban this book.  he is merely asking that ppl not buy this book out of respect for the truth and the christian religion.  this is a polite request.  no one has been bound under pain of sin not to buy it.  please.  


Nonny, on Aug 23 2005, 08:56 AM, said:

The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine is the catechism force fed to Catholic schoolchildren, who are required to swallow it whole without question.  Once the children discover that they will be severely punished for asking the tiniest question and give up asking questions, they are informed that the grim fairy tales they've just swallowed whole are their "faith" and that they must adhere to it till the day they die or face eternal retribution from their assigned deity.  It's one of those "I do this because I love you" things so beloved of brutal parents. 

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Catholics are encouraged to question and explore their faith, not 'swallow it without question'  the idea that children will be 'severely punished for asking the tiniest question'  is laughable.  seriously, where are you getting any of this from??????

Edited by deMona, 25 August 2005 - 02:31 AM.

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#50 woody000

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 03:01 AM

Actually, I have heard stories about that kind of thing. I've no idea how rampant that is though.

#51 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 10:12 AM

deMona, on Aug 25 2005, 02:16 AM, said:

Catholics are encouraged to question and explore their faith, not 'swallow it without question'  the idea that children will be 'severely punished for asking the tiniest question'  is laughable.  seriously, where are you getting any of this from??????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Have you ever attended Sunday School as a child? I did. And believe me when I tell you, at least at this sunday school, questions that challenged, in any way, the bible were not encouraged.

I asked the question: When they were kicked out of the garden, it says they went to the next town, married, and had children. So where did this town come from if the only people created were Adam and Eve?

That question got me to stand in a corner, since it was deemed I was being disruptive to the class. So, IMO, the bit you quoted from Nonny is right on.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#52 Nonny

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 10:44 AM

deMona, on Aug 24 2005, 11:16 PM, said:

the davinci code is nothing but anti-catholic propaganda, aimed at undermining the faith of unscrupulous catholics by spewing lies and legend as fact and history.   the cardinal, as a shephard and teacher is doing the responsible thing warning the faithful about it.   and is it really so much to ask that blatantly anti-catholic books not be sold at catholic bookstores??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not even "mostly" anti-catholic propaganda.  Watch the absolutes.  It's a ripping good yarn, exciting fiction, fabulous riddles, and a satisfying read.  The cardinal is being a butthead by overreacting to some well deserved zings.  I'm guessing he's finding fewer sheep among the faithful these days.  

deMona, on Aug 24 2005, 11:16 PM, said:

and guys, lets read the article a little more carefully, shall we?  i don't see anywhere that anyone has tried to ban this book.  he is merely asking that ppl not buy this book out of respect for the truth and the christian religion.  this is a polite request.  no one has been bound under pain of sin not to buy it.  please. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The truth as he sees it, which is not the truth at all, but a story that supports him and his kind in style.  "Christian religion"?  A little careless here, are "we"?  The Vatican is not, no matter how much it desires to be, in charge of "the Christian religion," but merely the Roman Catholic branch.  And how "polite" is a request padded with crap like "this book is a sack full of lies" and "this book is rotten food"?  Polite, my Aunt Fanny!  

deMona, on Aug 24 2005, 11:16 PM, said:

Nonny, on Aug 23 2005, 08:56 AM, said:

The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine is the catechism force fed to Catholic schoolchildren, who are required to swallow it whole without question.  Once the children discover that they will be severely punished for asking the tiniest question and give up asking questions, they are informed that the grim fairy tales they've just swallowed whole are their "faith" and that they must adhere to it till the day they die or face eternal retribution from their assigned deity.  It's one of those "I do this because I love you" things so beloved of brutal parents. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Catholics are encouraged to question and explore their faith, not 'swallow it without question'  the idea that children will be 'severely punished for asking the tiniest question'  is laughable.  seriously, where are you getting any of this from??????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't laughing when nun after nun after lay teacher punished me for asking questions, and I'm not laughing now.  I got "this" from my own life, from the lives of my friends and family members, from written accounts of the brutality and abuse of Catholic school teachers.  Just because I parted company with the church decades ago doesn't mean I've forgotten the crap I endured until I was old enough to make a break for it.  

If some Catholics are being encouraged to question and explore their faith, then I suspect that that's why the American bishops are in such deep doodoo with the Vatican.  

I'm upping the ante on my challenge: once this idiot proves  :sarcasm:  that Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction, I challenge him to prove that The Confraternity of Christian Doctrine isn't.

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#53 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:12 PM

I see that most of this conversation took place a long time ago, but would liek to offer my $0.02  

Somebody commented that the Catholic Church has brought attention to this book, the opposite of their goal.  Hence, I fully believe that the Catholic church has reason to believe that none of the content is true.  But if you want to see a book that questions the Catholic Church, and the Catholic Church responds, read some Tom Robbins.  
In Fierce Invalids Home From Hot Climates he questions a secret document that the Catholic Church never released.  A huge plot in the book is the search of this document, and the information it contains, and why the Catholic Church keeps it a secret.  
But about a month before the book came out, the Catholic Church released this document, without much publicity.  They did nothing to attract interest to Tom Robbin's book, and today, when I tried to google for information, I had a hard time finding anything worth posting here to send you guys to look at (I will keep looking when I have more free time, because I don't remember many of the details myself)  Perhaps Tom actually hit close to home, while Dan is just considered to be blaspheming and spreading silly ideas.  

Tom Robbin's other books poke fun at the Catholic Church, and I highly reccomend them if you want something that questions the church while creating characters with depth, and a storyline you can get into.  

Anyways, back to the subject at hand...
I am troubled by a couple of comments from Christians here that act like Catholicism is the ugly stepmother of Christianity.  Taking Christianity to believe that Christ was the son of God, lived as presented in the Gospel, and is now seated at the right-hand of his father in heaven, then CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS!  But that's just an issue I have.  

I have read The DaVinci Code and understand why the leaders of a worldwide organization that it questions would want it ignored.  I did not interpret it as a questioning of beliefs so much as the questioning of the institution of religion and the Hierarchal scheme it has created.  Sort of creating a "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" type situation.

***Is easily distracted***


#54 woody000

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:47 PM

Nonny, on Aug 25 2005, 03:44 PM, said:

deMona, on Aug 24 2005, 11:16 PM, said:

and guys, lets read the article a little more carefully, shall we?  i don't see anywhere that anyone has tried to ban this book.  he is merely asking that ppl not buy this book out of respect for the truth and the christian religion.  this is a polite request.  no one has been bound under pain of sin not to buy it.  please. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The truth as he sees it, which is not the truth at all, but a story that supports him and his kind in style.  "Christian religion"?  A little careless here, are "we"?  The Vatican is not, no matter how much it desires to be, in charge of "the Christian religion," but merely the Roman Catholic branch.  And how "polite" is a request padded with crap like "this book is a sack full of lies" and "this book is rotten food"?  Polite, my Aunt Fanny!  

But, the book is packed with lies, is it not? I thought all she meant by "truth" was general truth, not religious beliefs... the book talks about things, stating them as fact, when they are either theory or very often completely false.

Rhiannonjk, on Aug 25 2005, 05:12 PM, said:

Anyways, back to the subject at hand...
I am troubled by a couple of comments from Christians here that act like Catholicism is the ugly stepmother of Christianity.  Taking Christianity to believe that Christ was the son of God, lived as presented in the Gospel, and is now seated at the right-hand of his father in heaven, then CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS!  But that's just an issue I have. 

Of course they're Christians, technically, and of course they still (in the opinion of most other Christians) can go to heaven. But the problem is that they hold on to so many ideas which are laughable to other Christians, which are archaic to an extreme and don't even hold firm with regard to the scriptures themselves! Catholics are thought of this way because there is simply far too many things to question. No other domination sparks as many.

Edited by woody000, 25 August 2005 - 12:52 PM.


#55 Rhea

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:51 PM

hawkeye, on Mar 17 2005, 05:12 AM, said:

^There was quite a good program on lately presented by Baldrick...I mean Tony Robinson where they investigated the claims not only in the Da Vinci Code, but in other theories as well. The general conclusion was that each theory, including the Da Vinci Code, made claims that were pretty suspect.

But anyway. This is a work of fiction isn't it? or does the writer claim that its fact? I have to admit i havent read the book, although it sounds interesting. People have questioned and debated the various aspects of all religions for centuries. I dont really see what makes this book so different.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


It's a suspense novel, which is all the author claims. He does use factual material as a jumping-off point, but it's a novel.
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When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#56 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:58 PM

I always assumed that the "factual" information in the DaVinci Code was the information used to make the deductions necessary to believe in the underground society described -
IE, his descriptions of Leonardo DaVinci's paintings are accurate, but if you go turn them around, there may or may not be stuff written behind them.  
Is that information not accurate?

***Is easily distracted***


#57 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 12:59 PM

woody000, on Aug 25 2005, 12:47 PM, said:

But, the book is packed with lies, is it not? I thought all she meant by "truth" was general truth, not religious beliefs... the book talks about things, stating them as fact, when they are either theory or very often completely false.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Depends. I just goggled da vinci paintings and looked at the last supper painted by him. The person to Jesus's right does look like a female, so it could be Mary Madgelene(?) like the book claims.

I didn't see 12 chalices on the table, as portrayed by the painting in the book though...

Personally, I think the book is a work of fiction, although it does raise some interesting questions. Which is probably why the vatican is so against it.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#58 woody000

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 01:04 PM

Well like the Yahweh thing I mentioned. The origin of that word, as described in the book is wrong.

Google for something like "Divinci code inaccuracies" and I'm sure you'll find many pages. This looks good at a glance:
http://www.hiddencod.../vinci-code.htm

The only trouble is most of the pages are by Christians, it'll take you longer to find one by an Atheist scientist.

Edited by woody000, 25 August 2005 - 01:06 PM.


#59 Rhea

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 01:11 PM

Rhiannonjk, on Aug 25 2005, 09:12 AM, said:

I am troubled by a couple of comments from Christians here that act like Catholicism is the ugly stepmother of Christianity.  Taking Christianity to believe that Christ was the son of God, lived as presented in the Gospel, and is now seated at the right-hand of his father in heaven, then CATHOLICS ARE CHRISTIANS!  But that's just an issue I have. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I am both troubled (and highly amused) by the fact that anyone would not consider Catholics as Christians, given that their church was The One and Only Church for most of the life of Christianity. Talk about cheeky stepchildren!  :devil:

This sounds way too much like the fundamentalist silliness of my childhood (Jews crucified Jesus, Catholics worship idols) to suit me.  :eek2:

Edited by Rhea, 25 August 2005 - 01:58 PM.

The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#60 waterpanther

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Posted 25 August 2005 - 06:14 PM

Quote

Of course they're Christians, technically, and of course they still (in the opinion of most other Christians) can go to heaven. But the problem is that they hold on to so many ideas which are laughable to other Christians, which are archaic to an extreme and don't even hold firm with regard to the scriptures themselves! Catholics are thought of this way because there is simply far too many things to question. No other domination sparks as many

What was that Jesus said?  Something about not throwing rocks at other folks?   :whistle:
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