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Do you think Terri's case will sink Jeb?

Jeb Bush Florida Teri Schiavo

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#21 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 06:45 PM

Norville, on Mar 28 2005, 01:37 PM, said:

Quote

No more governor Jeb, no matter what people think of him.

^ Well, then, o joy, he can run for President! :crazy:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well he definately won't get my vote.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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#22 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 06:47 PM

Digital Man, on Mar 28 2005, 11:50 AM, said:

It's a sad situation all around. :(  The ONLY people I'm ticked off at are the protestors and politicians who are using this family's suffering as a basis for tossing around their agendas.  :glare:

After Terri dies, watch how fast these...people....leave Terri's family high and dry.  :glare:

:barf:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I agree completely, with every single word.

One thing that has been making me scratch my head...Don't these people have jobs they have to go to? Or are their bosses just willing to loose their employees so that they can come and get involved in something that they have no business being in, in the first place!
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#23 HubcapDave

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Posted 28 March 2005 - 07:35 PM

Don't know if I should post this here or the other thread, but I heard on the news that Mr. Schiavo will allow for an autopsy after all.

#24 Nonny

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:12 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Mar 27 2005, 09:21 PM, said:

I mean, on one side you have people who, like myself, think Terri should be allowed to pass with dignity. These people are probably not too thrilled with Jeb Bush for trying to interfer in affairs he has no business being in. On the other side you have people who think Terri should be forced to be in a PVS for the rest of her life...who are now a little pissed that the Governor ISN'T breaking the law and trying to save her...

In short, he's managed to piss off BOTH sides...Not a good political move on his part.

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Nick, on Mar 28 2005, 10:09 AM, said:

As for Jeb--he can't be re-elected governor again, Florida only allows 2 terms, and he's in his second--which ends next year.

No more governor Jeb, no matter what people think of him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LORD of the SWORD, on Mar 28 2005, 03:45 PM, said:

Norville, on Mar 28 2005, 01:37 PM, said:

Quote

No more governor Jeb, no matter what people think of him.

^ Well, then, o joy, he can run for President! :crazy:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well he definately won't get my vote.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mine either, but I'm more worried about Tom DeLay or Bill Frist.  And I used to think Newt Gingrich was the worst they could do.  :eek2:  :eek2:  :eek2:

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#25 Nonny

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:16 AM

MuseZack, on Mar 28 2005, 07:30 AM, said:

While I have a lot of sympathy for the Schindlers on a human level, I also get very angry at them when I consider the hell they've put all the other patients at the Florida hospice through whose last days have been made even more miserable by the freakshow camped outside.  At least one woman wasn't able to be at her grandfather's bedside for his death because of the security cordon in place, and I blame that directly on the Schindlers.

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Eskaminzim, on Mar 28 2005, 08:17 AM, said:

Yes, Handmaiden, but would you have compassion for them if your own son was lying in the next room in that hospice, dying, and could not even be wheeled outside to enjoy the last time he will ever see the trees blooming in his entire LIFE because of the Schindlers and what they've brought down to that hospice? 

The other 70 dying patients did not ask for this. They do not deserve this.  Their lives and their deaths are being made miserable because of this one family and their inability to let go..

If it was YOUR son who was being harmed by this circus becuase he couldn't get out to see his last spring, would your compassion for them be there then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Schindlers have much to answer for.  My heart goes out to the other patients, their families, the staff, all those who have to put up with the hell that the Schindlers have brought down on them.  

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#26 Nonprofit

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 01:02 PM

Quote

MuseZack  Mar 28,2005

While I have a lot of sympathy for the Schindlers on a human level, I also get very angry at them when I consider the hell they've put all the other patients at the Florida hospice through whose last days have been made even more miserable by the freakshow camped outside. At least one woman wasn't able to be at her grandfather's bedside for his death because of the security cordon in place, and I blame that directly on the Schindlers.

This would be the own womans fault for not being by the bedside.  All she had to do was tell one of the many police that she was there to see her grandfather.  Security have been screening all vistors to the hospice and allowing everyone in to see all other patients.  You can not blame the Schindlers for her lack of speaking up. I really can't imgine other patients going through hell with all of this going on. The hospice hospice has 3 other sides to its building and would think that where the other patients would spend thier time with loved ones.  

Oh hell they gave Michael a room to live in so he doesn't have to come and go.  Thus hiding out waiting for his wife to die.  So I blame him for kicking someone out of their room who needs it more than he does.

Quote

Eskaminzim @ Mar 28 2005, 08:17 AM
If it was YOUR son who was being harmed by this circus becuase he couldn't get out to see his last spring, would your compassion for them be there then?

Hmmmm I think they would have more than a front door to this hospice.  I would be amazed that somone would miss their last spring because of the action going on out in front of the building.  The only thing he would be missing is seeing traffic go by the place with that view.  Perhaps they would want to take in the backyard view which is far more peaceful.

#27 Nonny

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 01:49 PM

RuReddy1, on Mar 29 2005, 10:02 AM, said:

This would be the own womans fault for not being by the bedside.  All she had to do was tell one of the many police that she was there to see her grandfather.  Security have been screening all vistors to the hospice and allowing everyone in to see all other patients.   

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Wow, imagine that, one of our very own EIers was there, a witness to this woman's failure to get herself screened!  :sarcasm:  Can he assure us that her attempts to get to the security checkpoint were not impeded by his fellow demonstrators?  :sarcasm:  :sarcasm:  As I recall, radical right demonstrators tend to bite and kick, two activities they describe as "prayer" in court.

RuReddy1, on Mar 29 2005, 10:02 AM, said:

Hmmmm I think they would have more than a front door to this hospice.  I would be amazed that somone would miss their last spring because of the action going on out in front of the building.  The only thing he would be missing is seeing traffic go by the place with that view.  Perhaps they would want to take in the backyard view which is far more peaceful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess his fellow demonstrators were not bright enough to find the other doors, so darn her to heck for not thinking of going in the back door.  :sarcasm:  :sarcasm:  :sarcasm:  "Peace" is usually coupled with "quiet" and that's not something the other residents and their families are getting much of these days, is it now?   :angry:

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#28 Nonprofit

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 02:50 PM

Quote

Nonny Posted Today, 01:49 PM
Wow, imagine that, one of our very own EIers was there, a witness to this woman's failure to get herself screened!  Can he assure us that her attempts to get to the security checkpoint were not impeded by his fellow demonstrators?   As I recall, radical right demonstrators tend to bite and kick, two activities they describe as "prayer" in court.

You are only too funny.  This woman would only have to walk up to the door as any normal person would.  There are many officers on the grounds hired by the hospice to ensure saftety for everyone.  All reports have been that it has been peaceful.  If you have other information since you seem to recall, radical right demonstrators tend to bite and kick, please prove it in this situation by giving us the link.

Quote

I guess his fellow demonstrators were not bright enough to find the other doors, so darn her to heck for not thinking of going in the back door.    "Peace" is usually coupled with "quiet" and that's not something the other residents and their families are getting much of these days, is it now? 

I'm guessing you are not watching much of the news on this.  All demomstrators are being kept in one area.  The hospice has hired many police for that purpose. And all we have to go on is all the many reports of the differents news agencies. So far no reports of problems.

Quote

"Peace" is usually coupled with "quiet" and that's not something the other residents and their families are getting much of these days, is it now?

WOW!!  We have own own special EI'er in FLA to witness what the other residents and their families are getting or really not getting in this case at the hospice.   Thanks for your personal insight and your trip to the hospice.  Your knowledge is of value.

#29 Elara

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 02:53 PM

RuReddy1, on Mar 29 2005, 01:02 PM, said:

This would be the own womans fault for not being by the bedside.  All she had to do was tell one of the many police that she was there to see her grandfather.  Security have been screening all vistors to the hospice and allowing everyone in to see all other patients.  You can not blame the Schindlers for her lack of speaking up. I really can't imgine other patients going through hell with all of this going on. The hospice hospice has 3 other sides to its building and would think that where the other patients would spend thier time with loved ones.

~.~ As Zack clearly stated, there are others that he feels for, not just this one woman, she was simply the one he used as an example. Did you consider that perhaps she was detained long enough to miss her grandfather before he passed? Or maybe, she had to fight her way through the 'people' protesting?

You can't imagine people picking up on the tension? You can't imagine lives, or the last few moments of someone's life, being disrupted by chanting, crying, shouting, etc... of the demonstrators, that they may be able to hear?
What should be a private, peaceful time with family has been destroyed by a three ring circus. While I understand the pain Terri's family is going through, her husband is right to let her finally be freed from her shell.

Quote

Oh hell they gave Michael a room to live in so he doesn't have to come and go.  Thus hiding out waiting for his wife to die.  So I blame him for kicking someone out of their room who needs it more than he does.

~.~ huh, I cannot understand why he would want to be there for his wife's final moments. I suppose he is the same as the other family members that wish to be there for their loved ones final moments.

Hiding out or not offering up fodder for lowlife's to use?

The only thing he and the other people that visit at that hospice need is for the demonstrators to just leave the place alone. ~wow~ Wouldn't that be a simple and sane solution?

Quote

Hmmmm I think they would have more than a front door to this hospice.  I would be amazed that somone would miss their last spring because of the action going on out in front of the building.  The only thing he would be missing is seeing traffic go by the place with that view.  Perhaps they would want to take in the backyard view which is far more peaceful.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


~.~ True, there may be another door. However, I would think the demonstrators would also know of this door, making this door no more safe to be near then any other door. When it comes to fanatics of any kind, no place is safe.

Also true, the backyard would probably be more peacful, yep, a tad more peaceful than the front.
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#30 MuseZack

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 03:29 PM

Since Ru seems intent on blaming the victim here, I'll post the relevant excerpt.

PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Jennifer Johnson, barefoot and in her pajamas, ran to her grandfather's bedside once a hospice worker said his death was moments away. She got there - one minute too late. Johnson said the chaos outside the hospice where Terri Schiavo is dying kept her from saying goodbye.  

     When Johnson arrived, a police officer demanded identification; she had none. And after a hospice employee cleared her, another officer halted her for a search with a metal detector.  

     The delays lasted three to four minutes - the last of her grandfather's life.  

...
Relatives of hospice residents say the clamor - intended to rattle Michael Schiavo - rattles their patience.  

    "It's a real pain in the neck," said Bill Douglass, whose mother-in-law is a resident. He said the only consolation is that she is "oblivious" to the outside scene.  

     Police and hospice officials say they are trying to minimize the intrusion on hospice residents and their families, and that the security measures are meant to protect the privacy and safety of all residents, not just Schiavo.  

But Johnson, 24, said her 73-year-old grandfather, Thomas Bone, was restricted from moving freely around the hospice grounds during his final days. He died just hours after Terri Schiavo's feeding tube was removed and protests intensified.  

     "They've taken away hospice's greatest quality, that it is peaceful and serene and quiet and calming - and it's not fair," Johnson said.  


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#31 Nonny

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 03:33 PM

RuReddy1, on Mar 29 2005, 11:50 AM, said:

Quote

Nonny Posted Today, 01:49 PM
Wow, imagine that, one of our very own EIers was there, a witness to this woman's failure to get herself screened!  Can he assure us that her attempts to get to the security checkpoint were not impeded by his fellow demonstrators?   As I recall, radical right demonstrators tend to bite and kick, two activities they describe as "prayer" in court.

You are only too funny.  This woman would only have to walk up to the door as any normal person would.  There are many officers on the grounds hired by the hospice to ensure saftety for everyone.  All reports have been that it has been peaceful.  If you have other information since you seem to recall, radical right demonstrators tend to bite and kick, please prove it in this situation by giving us the link.

Quote

I guess his fellow demonstrators were not bright enough to find the other doors, so darn her to heck for not thinking of going in the back door.    "Peace" is usually coupled with "quiet" and that's not something the other residents and their families are getting much of these days, is it now? 

I'm guessing you are not watching much of the news on this.  All demomstrators are being kept in one area.  The hospice has hired many police for that purpose. And all we have to go on is all the many reports of the differents news agencies. So far no reports of problems.

Quote

"Peace" is usually coupled with "quiet" and that's not something the other residents and their families are getting much of these days, is it now?

WOW!!  We have own own special EI'er in FLA to witness what the other residents and their families are getting or really not getting in this case at the hospice.   Thanks for your personal insight and your trip to the hospice.  Your knowledge is of value.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no such thing as too funny.  :rolleyes:

So you agree the demonstrators are unnormal.  :rolleyes:

All reports?  You're citing all reports?  Careful there, you're missing the ones where people are getting arrested for breaking the peace.  :rolleyes:  

Loud and screaming is not "peaceful."  :rolleyes:

No can do.  Anecdotal, for which I gave a pretty strong hint.  And not this situation, but another.  My main source for this information is lost to my life, having been taken into the Witness Protection Program years ago.   :(

You got one right.  I don't watch TV at home.   :)  

If they're being kept in one area, how do they keep breaking out and heading for the building?  :rolleyes:

Some police protection.  :sarcasm:

Florida?  Me?  You call me "too funny" but you didn't get my little joke?  Hey, that's funny!  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

RuReddy1, on Mar 29 2005, 11:50 AM, said:

Your knowledge is of value.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now you're talking!  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Or, in other words, damn skippy!  :hehe:  :hehe:  :hehe:

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#32 Nonny

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 03:38 PM

MuseZack, on Mar 29 2005, 12:29 PM, said:

Since Ru seems intent on blaming the victim here, I'll post the relevant excerpt.

[i]PINELLAS PARK, Fla. - Jennifer Johnson, barefoot and in her pajamas, ran to her grandfather's bedside once a hospice worker said his death was moments away. She got there - one minute too late. Johnson said the chaos outside the hospice where Terri Schiavo is dying kept her from saying goodbye. 

     When Johnson arrived, a police officer demanded identification; she had none. And after a hospice employee cleared her, another officer halted her for a search with a metal detector. 

     The delays lasted three to four minutes - the last of her grandfather's life. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

{{{{{{{Jennifer Johnson}}}}}}}

and all the others harmed by the demonstrators.  :(  :(  :(

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#33 Cheile

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 04:03 PM

perhaps Miss Johnson and family should slap the Schindlers with a lawsuit for emotional suffering.  because we all know without their drama, there would be no protestors.

since the protestors have the freedom to stand there and throw a fit, we can't remove them unless they behave stupidly. (like those arrested)  maybe legal action will convince them to go home.

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#34 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 04:21 PM

Cheile, on Mar 29 2005, 04:03 PM, said:

perhaps Miss Johnson and family should slap the Schindlers with a lawsuit for emotional suffering.  because we all know without their drama, there would be no protestors.

since the protestors have the freedom to stand there and throw a fit, we can't remove them unless they behave stupidly. (like those arrested)  maybe legal action will convince them to go home.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I don't see why not...in fact, that sounds absolutely perfect to me. Perhaps putting several of the protestors in the poor house will make others think twice before getting involved in business that they have no business being in.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#35 Nonprofit

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 07:20 PM

People People People.......perhaps if Miss Johnson wasn't breaking the law by driving without her drivers license she wouldn't have been in this situation.  It is the against law to drive a car without your drivers license upon you.  Then she would have had an ID and not had a problem.  Was it a surprise to her that Terri was in this hospice and all this was happening outside the place as far as security?  I doubt it.  

Maybe if she didn't get those red lights on the way to the hospice she would have made it.  Or maybe is she hadn't cried so hard needing time to dry her eyes and get it together before leaving she would have made it. Perhaps if she didn't use the bathroom before leaving the house she would have made it.  Pehaps if she didn't make that call to another family member she would have made it.  Perhaps if she would have drove one mile faster she would have made it. Perhaps if she had not hesitated at all those stop signs she would have made it.  Are any of you sure as to what this woman did prior to getting to the hospice,  that might have prevented her from arriving 1 to 3 minutes eariler?

I'm not intent on blaming the victim but you people seem to want to blame the Schindler's for everything.   Its easy to blame someone else in these situations. And not the person who is crying and placing blame on everyone else for what happen to them.

As I see it,  truely its Michaels fault.  Terri did not belong in this hospice in the first place.  They are designed for the dying and the last 6 month of someone life, not a place to spend years living in as Terri did.  

Gosh I wish my grandmother could have died in a nice peaceful quiet place.  Damn that freaking hospital.   The nerve of them to add on an addition to the building while she lay in her bed listening to all that banging and noise.  For heaven sake didn't they know there were sick and dying people behind those walls.  Damn !!!!!  She didn't eat for over 11 days and could not drink either.  But at least we could swab her mouth and keep her lips moist as she was dying. Why couldn't they do that for Terri.  That would have been a normal route of eating through the mouth so why couldn't it be done.  She didn't want to be kept alive through tubes nothing was said about through her mouth.  Oh well.  It was the tube or nothing.  Not even a try through the mouth.  She swallowed her own saliva. Guess they were affraid she just might swallow some water.  Oh my and that would have screwed up the program.  

Quote

Elara  Today, 02:53 PM   
~.~ True, there may be another door. However, I would think the demonstrators would also know of this door, making this door no more safe to be near then any other door. When it comes to fanatics of any kind, no place is safe.

Then you think they hired all those security policemen to only protect the front of the building?   "Ok guys just watch the front door we don't care about the rest of the grounds and other doors."  Come on get real. There was plenty of security for the entire place.  The place was safe.  Beside was it a big surprise to anyone within this hospice that Terri was also living there.  If they didn't like they could go somewhere else and not deal with all of these issues of recent.  

Quote

Elara Posted Today, 02:53 PM
The only thing he and the other people that visit at that hospice need is for the demonstrators to just leave the place alone. ~wow~ Wouldn't that be a simple and sane solution?

Oh yes.  Simple and sane.  Just as asking people not to protest against anything they believe in.   :lol:   Never gunna happen in this lifetime.

#36 Eskaminzim

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 08:08 PM

Dang!  RuReddy's gonna think I'm stalking here, but I just read that s/he quoted me and so, heck, I've got to respond.

Maybe the hospice does have fifteen or fifty other doors.  Problem is, the hospice is for the patients and their families to exit through whatever door they feel like exiting through.  They're *dying*.  We should at least give them the right to do as they wish (within legal boundaries) with their last days, as long as that doesn't infringe on the rights of the other patients.

I do give the Schindler's their due for telling the demonstrators to go home.  I think even they realized that what was happening was crappy for the other patients housed there and they tried their best to stop the dancing brooms once they'd started them, but as Mickey can tell you, that's pretty near impossible.  But...they did try, so I'll give them that.

As for hospices...they're different things depending on the state, hospice company, a whole plethora of factors, really.  In one state, Medicaid funding for Hospice is only for three months (not six) and if the patient isn't dead by that time, they're removed.  There's a hospice near where I live that takes care of nothing but PVS and brain dead patients.  And yes, it's a hospice, with medicare and medicaid funding AS a hospice, so the claim that it's *only* for those with six months or less to live is a bit...well...wrong, actually.  It might be a generally accepted (by the public, at least) standard, but it's not reality.

Lastly, and I'm in no way sure that this is the entire chain of events, but I *believe* (and I'm sure someone will point out my error if I'm wrong) that Michael placed Terri in hospice when he was given the go ahead to pull the feeding tube.
She would surely have died within six months had that legal order been followed at the time of admission.

It was hardly Michael's fault that the family did everything they could for seven years to block a legal order to remove her feeding tube.  I hardly think it's his fault for placing his wife in a hospice when he knows she is going there to die, only to find his parents blocking him at every turn.  That "fault" (for having her in the hospice) would then lie with the Schindlers, not Michael Schiavo.

He had the legal right to grant her wish to die.  He was forced to wait for seven years before that right was finally granted.  How is that his fault, exactly?

#37 Cheile

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 08:17 PM

RuReddy1, on Mar 29 2005, 05:20 PM, said:

As I see it,  truely its Michaels fault. 

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oh sure...he's to blame for trying to follow his wife's frigging wishes and her parents can't get it through their thick skulls that Terri is dead.

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#38 Elara

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 09:46 PM

RuReddy1, on Mar 29 2005, 07:20 PM, said:

Are any of you sure as to what this woman did prior to getting to the hospice,  that might have prevented her from arriving 1 to 3 minutes eariler?

~.~ No, I'm not, just as you don't know that any of your scenario happened. Perhaps she just got the call and left for the hospice. Believe it or not, some people love their family so much that they don't think of everything they may need to get past security.

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I'm not intent on blaming the victim but you people seem to want to blame the Schindler's for everything.

~.~ I don't place entire lame on them, I blame the fanatics. The Shindlers began the situation, but have tried convince the fanatics to leave. I am not the first to say this, either.
But if you don't blame the victim, why do you make her out to be stupid? Why don't you say in your posts that feel bad for her? Why do you speak of how she drove illegally?
There is plenty at fault, but the other hospice families are not at fault. They did not ask for this, they did not deserve this and there is no way you can spin this situation to place blame on any one of them, they are innocent.

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Gosh I wish my grandmother could have died in a nice peaceful quiet place.  Damn that freaking hospital.

~.~ I am sorry for your loss and sorry your grandmother had to go through that at the end of her life. I had a great aunt that was in the hospital when they were adding on, in her declining mental and physical state, she was terrified.
Unfortunate that this happens, but the Shindlers and the fanatics had a choice. The choice they made put the other hospice patients and family into a chaotic situation.

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Not even a try through the mouth.  She swallowed her own saliva. Guess they were affraid she just might swallow some water.  Oh my and that would have screwed up the program.

~.~ As has been said several times, Terri was given swallow tests, she could not swallow. If a person cannot swallow, liquid can get into the lungs, this is not a good thing.

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Then you think they hired all those security policemen to only protect the front of the building?   "Ok guys just watch the front door we don't care about the rest of the grounds and other doors."  Come on get real. There was plenty of security for the entire place.  The place was safe.

~.~ I've read what I posted and nowhere do I see that I said there were no guards at the other doors.
For anyone to say the place was safe is not thinking of all the possibilities. When it comes to fanatics, and believe me, the nuts are the ones to fear, anything is possible. The guards can only protect just so much, so you really can't say the place was safe. They kept it as safe as possible.

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Oh yes.  Simple and sane.  Just as asking people not to protest against anything they believe in.   :lol:   Never gunna happen in this lifetime.

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#39 Nonprofit

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Posted 29 March 2005 - 11:34 PM

Strange that no one has mentioned the Michael supporters in this thread.  
Many of them are also standing outside the hospice with their homemade signs.

#40 Godeskian

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Posted 30 March 2005 - 12:19 AM

actually, no article, neither on the BBC nor on CNN that i've read has mentioned hordes of Michael Shiavo supporters.

Do you have a link supporting your claim Ru.

Edited by Steven_Q, 30 March 2005 - 12:19 AM.

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