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Pope John Paul II: 1920-2005

Obituaries Pope John Paul II

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#81 Mooky



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Posted 03 April 2005 - 01:43 AM

I keep seeing this  in different forums.   It doesn't matter what religion you are, as long as you care about the Holy Father.

Edited by JRSellers, 03 April 2005 - 01:44 AM.

#82 Vapor Trails

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 01:44 AM

Isn't there a biography on his life in book form?
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#83 Chakotay


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Posted 03 April 2005 - 02:28 AM

Several. probably, with lots more to come I expect.

Requiescat in Pace, Karol Wotija.

You expressed your beliefs with sincerity and clarity so that even those who disagreed with you had to respect you.
And some who met you say you were a genuinely nice person.
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#84 offworlder


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Posted 03 April 2005 - 02:36 AM

there are many, and not only the autos, by him, but journalist ones too

I just reserved the Reaching out across borders one by the Rueters journalists...

There's also the HIs Holiness one by Carl Bernstein with some massive analysis including a big theory of collusion with the Reagan gov on Solidarnosc-

but there's a big one, Man of the century, by Kwitny, that's 760 pages and debunks many theories (including that one above) and gives a nice full picture, but I won't have the time yet so I'll let others check that one out ...

HIS autos include Rise Let Us Be On Our Way, in which he tells of his time from consecration as a bishop in Kracov in 1958 through Archbishop of Kracov, then through to election as pope in 1978. He has three or four others, including his anniversary of 50 years since ordination as a priest, in which he tells many things of 'his way' besides his doings- {I WIll get this one out later}

He himself put out a dozen books including bios and essays and thoughts and meanings, you have some research to do inputting titles and authors, my son

let me just add...
there are dozens of the Legacy pieces out there now, but I just read one I would like you to read, because of how poignant it is and how well written, but also because of the personal connection of the writer who, juxtaposed with those over fifty who have plenty good things to say, this one grew up in the 80s and 90s when John Paul was already Pope .... it's a truely wonderful youthful journalistic piece in the opinion of the Sunday Scotsman of Edinburgh (web) on Scotsman.com
... if it brings up a register thing, I urge you, it's quick and free, you can kill the cookie later; but maybe not because, to me?: for the Scotsman.com?: it's worth registering! {one of the absolute best-done web newspaper sites in the world} - if you read one of these Legacy things on John Paul II, read this one.


That was the ’80s. The ’90s brought a slow drift from the arms of the Church, as secular materialism took hold. I was not atypical of Catholics of my generation. Ultimately, it proved too difficult to square the restrictive, reactionary dogma of Rome - the absolutist policies on contraception, abortion and the rest - with the licence granted by the mores


But I never really outgrew Karol Wojtyla. A little of the child remained, still star-struck by this moral superpower; a suspicion lingered that there was some kind of transcendental plan behind this man being in this role, at this time. Even as the years took their toll on him - as the wrinkles deepened and the body curled in on itself like a prawn, as the Parkinson’s took hold - he remained to me a being who was vibrantly, awesomely alive.


As his spokesman, Joaquin Navarro-Valls, once said: "He is the only global leader who is worried about the spiritual well-being of today’s men and women. He asks, ‘Who are you?’ instead of ‘What do you want to do?’ or ‘What do you want to buy?’" As the pace of technological and scientific change quickened, opening up ever more complex moral issues, John Paul shifted the theme of his papacy towards that question: Who are we?
by Chris Deerin, The Sunday essay

Edited by offworlder, 03 April 2005 - 03:20 AM.

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#85 Shalamar


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Posted 03 April 2005 - 11:17 AM

Blessed Be Karl, rest in peace
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#86 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 01:39 PM

Having seen the massive crowds at St. Peter's, which are only going to grow, I'm wondering how Rome is going to handle all the people who are going to arrive?
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#87 waterpanther

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Posted 03 April 2005 - 02:03 PM

Blessed are the merciful.

Blessed are the peacemakers.
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#88 Godeskian


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Posted 04 April 2005 - 08:06 AM

What i'm about to say may be unpopular, and I apologise in advance if my opinions offend anyone.

It is natural, when someone dies, to emphasise the good, not the bad. To look at what he did right, and not what he did wrong.

And yet, as I see page after page of tribute, of demands of sainthood, of hearing him called everything from the greatest pope who ever lived, to a truly great human being I am chilled to the bone.

yes, he was seen, and yes, he refuted Stalin, and these were good things, for the world and for his faith. However, he was also the pope that swept the peadophile scandal under the rug. He was also the pope who fought with every weapon in his arsenal agains the use of condom's in Africa, allowing AIDS to grow immeasurably stronger.

If he is to be remembered, and by the public outcry it seems certain that he will be, then let's remember him, not as a saint, not as some divine figure who could do no wrong, who was perfection personified, but as a man, with his own quirks and foibles, his own blind spots and beliefs, who made mistakes, like any other person.

Let's remember him for being human.

May whatever you believe comes next, be what you hoped for.

Edited by Steven_Q, 04 April 2005 - 08:06 AM.

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#89 Nonny


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Posted 04 April 2005 - 10:45 AM

Steven_Q, on Apr 4 2005, 05:06 AM, said:

Let's remember him for being human.


The coverage at NPR is balanced.  Much loved and charismatic OTOH, his teachings ignored OTO.  His crushing liberation theology in Latin America contrasted with his support of Solidarity in Poland.  Much good stuff.  

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#90 Norville

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Posted 04 April 2005 - 12:17 PM

Steven_Q said:

Let's remember him for being human.

I do. I haven't disagreed with any of the negative details I've heard, even while acknowledging the positive. Perhaps that's easier for an outsider to do, though -- someone who's eyed the Catholic Church with suspicion for a lifetime.

Nonny said:

The coverage at NPR is balanced.

Yes, it has been. But you've got to remember, Nonny, that NPR is just a bunch of evil liberals. :rolleyes:
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#91 Rhea


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Posted 04 April 2005 - 02:12 PM

He was at one and the same time both a remarkable *and* a remarkably reactionary human being.  We're an amazing set of contradictions, aren't we?

While he may be remembered for taking the church a step backward, no one can deny that he was an active defender of human rights and human freedom.
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