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Iraqi child prisoners freed!

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#1 Drew

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 05:29 PM

My God, what kind of a regime is this that puts children in prison for not joining the Saddam Youth Brigade!? This pisses me off almost more than any other news I've heard out of Baghdad. That monster jailed children!

Iraqi Child Prisoners freed from Baghdad jail

Excerpt:

Quote

Baghdad - More than 100 children held in a prison celebrated their freedom on Tuesday as US marines rolled into northeast Baghdad amid chaotic scenes which saw civilians loot weapons from an army compound, a US officer said.

Abound 150 children spilled out of the jail after the gates were opened as a US military Humvee vehicle approached, Lieutenant Colonel Fred Padilla told an AFP correspondent travelling with the Marines 5th Regiment.

"Hundreds of kids were swarming us and kissing us," Padilla said.

"There were parents running up, so happy to have their kids back."

"The children had been imprisoned because they had not joined the youth branch of the Ba'ath party," he alleged. "Some of these kids had been in there for five years."

The children, who were wearing threadbare clothes and looked under-nourished, walked on the streets crossing their hands as if to mimic handcuffs, before giving the thumbs up sign and shouting their thanks.

And I expect this is just the beginning of some of the inconceivable horrors we'll find.

So everyone still against liberating Iraq?

Edited by Certifiably Cait, 25 August 2012 - 04:45 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#2 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 06:11 PM

:eek:

That actually surprises me. Children are really no threat. Unless they're being held to get leverage out of their parents.....
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#3 Drew

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 06:52 PM

James Lileks had a good commentary on this in his Daily Bleat this morning:

Quote

Allied troops liberated a children’s jail today.

I wish that sentence made no sense.

Someone had to decide there would be children’s jails. Who? Saddam? He had more important things to do. Children matter as much to his world as dogs, or lamps. He may have signed off on the idea of creating a youth brigade, and put a gold star in the dossier of the sweating toady who proposed the idea. When someone put forth a proposal for jails to hold the children who resisted joining the brigades, he may have felt that spasm of impatience that shoots through the dictator’s heart from time to time: why are you bothering me with this? Build them; I don’t care. You think this is the path to advancement? You want my ear and my eye, kill someone who matters.

Would Uday care? He feeds on fear, but there’s no power or satisfaction in the fear of a child, because the truth of death and the horror of rape is really quite beyond their boring imaginations. They have to know what you can do, really understand what’s coming for it to be fun.

Qusay would care, inasmuch as children are useful. People who might resist you will do anything if you bring their children into the matter. He learned that from his father, no doubt. Some things his father doesn’t quite grasp; he’s old school. Where he grew up all children were expendable. This is a different world, a world of the big city, a world of politics, a world of men who went to school and learned to build bridges, design hotels, construct sewer systems. Men like this are remarkably pliant when their children are involved. Children’s jails: ahhh, now why didn’t he think of that.

There was a general who fought in the war against Iran - fought well, cared for his troops, put down the cowards when required, but had a reputation for no-nonsense honesty. He understood the men. Not one of those Baghdad bastards with the slogans and the phony medals, but a real soldier. He had no ambition. The purges passed him by. His lungs were never the same after that glorious offensive no one celebrates, the one where the wind suddenly shifted and his men fell in waves, weeping and puking - but they gave worse than they got, so he kept his commission. Dull, dependable: Ba’ath to the end. Nothing he had done in his long career had troubled him much; war was what it was. You did what you did. One afternoon he opened the envelope and read of his new duty - overseeing the children’s jail. The emotions rose and demanded a hearing: Shame over such a pitiful assignment. Fear that this meant he was in disfavor. Annoyance at the thought of a prison full of whimpering children who would never learn the proper lesson until they’d been beaten a dozen times. Jealousy of an old comrade he’d seen on the news the other day, inspecting some facility, his uniform clean and creased.

The end result of a fascist regime is always this: a man who seeks advancement by proposing a children’s jail; a smarter man who sees the political advantage of building one; the men who lock the doors and make the gruel with dead empty hearts, and the man who worries what will happen to him if the jail is found wanting.

The children, of course, don’t matter at all. In fact they matter least of all, and after a while their jailers come to hate them for what they make the jailers do.

A daisy chain of snakes biting their tales. Look up at the portrait hanging on the wall. Ask yourself what he wants. Bite harder.

Follow the link above for the whole Bleat.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#4 Anna

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 06:52 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Apr 9 2003, 09:00 AM, said:

That actually surprises me. Children are really no threat. Unless they're being held to get leverage out of their parents.....
I'm beyond being surprised by anything attributed to Saddam's regime. If a guy can condone [Edited before hitting the reply button, I can't even deal with seeing it in print. Insert your atrocity here], imprisoning children hardly seems out of character.

I just pray there's a special place in hell for these monsters.

Anna
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#5 Drew

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 06:54 PM

Double post? Weird. Where did that come from?

Edited by Drew, 09 April 2003 - 06:55 PM.

"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#6 Ro-Astarte

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:22 PM

Oops, posted in wrong thread.

Ro

Edited by Ro-Astarte, 09 April 2003 - 07:26 PM.


#7 Shalamar

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:47 PM

There was never any doubt that the goverment of Iraq as it ws needed to go, and this is just additional, sick makeing, heart breaking proof.

I am glad the America and the other countries that have stood at our side have gone in and done it...
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#8 Christopher

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:50 PM

Drew, on Apr 9 2003, 09:18 AM, said:

So everyone still against liberating Iraq?
That's not the right question.  The issue was not whether Saddam's regime was obscene -- that went without saying.  The question was whether such obscenity is a valid excuse for a war of aggression (an unconstitutional one!), and whether the cure might be, in the long run, worse than the disease by triggering further chaos and Islamist revolution.  Dumbing this down, as Bush insists on doing, to something as simple as "he's evil, we should do something about it" is, as always, profoundly missing the point.  It's also hypocritical, so long as we continue to claim the likes of Saudi Arabia as a staunch ally.

Hell, after WWI Britain occupied what's now Iraq and crowed about how they were liberating the people from their oppressors -- and then they just became the next set of oppressors, and helped create the political instability and anti-Western rage that cause such problems today.  Just because you're fighting someone bad doesn't mean everything you do is automatically right, or that it won't have negative consequences down the road.
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#9 D'Monix

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:51 PM

Agreed

This is more crap that Human Rights organizations have been calling Iraq on for years and the oh-so-civilized UN has been ignoring for just as long.

In my view I would be up for taking the warden and guards of that place and giving them a good old-fashioned Stoning

D'

#10 Banapis

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:54 PM

Drew, on Apr 9 2003, 03:43 PM, said:

Double post? Weird. Where did that come from?
Must be the Software Gremlins again. :D

As to the topic of this thread:  yet more proof of why Saddam had to go whether we find "smoking gun" chemical weapons or not.

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#11 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:57 PM

Christopher, on Apr 9 2003, 09:39 AM, said:

The question was whether such obscenity is a valid excuse for a war of aggression (an unconstitutional one!), and whether the cure might be, in the long run, worse than the disease by triggering further chaos and Islamist revolution.
First, I dispute your claim that it's unconstitutional.

Setting all of that aside...

Secondly... there may be negative consquences.

But we're freeing children from prisions, rescuing people from torture chambers, and I'm watching Iraqis celebrating in the streets. Somehow, I can't bring myself to call it wrong, no matter what.
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Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#12 Drew

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:57 PM

Christopher, on Apr 9 2003, 11:39 AM, said:

That's not the right question.  The issue was not whether Saddam's regime was obscene -- that went without saying.  The question was whether such obscenity is a valid excuse for a war of aggression (an unconstitutional one!), and whether the cure might be, in the long run, worse than the disease by triggering further chaos and Islamist revolution.  Dumbing this down, as Bush insists on doing, to something as simple as "he's evil, we should do something about it" is, as always, profoundly missing the point. 
I know who's missed the point here. It's not George Bush.

How anyone--ANYONE--can say, "Yes, they held children prisoners, but . . ." is beyond my ability to comprehend without getting extremely angry.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#13 Tyrs Girl

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 07:58 PM

Although I really shouldn't be surprised that Saddam's regime would do sh*t like this I am still appalled. Who the hell imprisons innocent children just because they won't join some political party?

#14 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 08:00 PM

Drew, on Apr 9 2003, 09:46 AM, said:

How anyone--ANYONE--can say, "Yes, they held children prisoners, but . . ." is beyond my ability to comprehend without getting extremely angry.
How about.. "Sure, there's human rights violations, and sure he's violated the terms of the cease fire, and sure he probably has WMD (soon to be sure he *had* WMD), and sure there were children in prisons, and sure he lived like a billionare while his people starved, and sure he executed POWs, but.."

I don't get it either. If that makes me simple or short-sighted, I'll gladly take that title. :).

<Not saying that's the case with Chris, but people don't seem to care>
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#15 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 08:01 PM

Tyrs Girl, on Apr 9 2003, 09:47 AM, said:

Although I really shouldn't be surprised that Saddam's regime would do sh*t like this I am still appalled. Who the hell imprisons innocent children just because they won't join some political party?
My money says most were being held to exert influence over the parents... Saddam had to get those army volunteers somehow, eh?

At least we got there in time. :).
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#16 Drew

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 08:05 PM

Javert Rovinski, on Apr 9 2003, 11:50 AM, said:

My money says most were being held to exert influence over the parents... Saddam had to get those army volunteers somehow, eh?
Though some were held for over five years. So they weren't taken recently to force "volunteers" for this war.
"Someone must have slandered Josef K., for one morning, without having done anything wrong, he was arrested."

#17 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 08:06 PM

Drew, on Apr 9 2003, 09:54 AM, said:

Though some were held for over five years. So they weren't taken recently to force "volunteers" for this war.
That's true.

I think there's a fuller story here. We'll see....
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.

#18 G1223

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 08:09 PM

Drew most likely held to keep certain areas under control. But I agree a majority had this done just becasue the state could do it. Unlike others I thought this guy needed taken down 12 years ago. Be dammed the allies in the region.
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#19 Christopher

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 11:07 PM

Drew, on Apr 9 2003, 11:46 AM, said:

I know who's missed the point here. It's not George Bush.

How anyone--ANYONE--can say, "Yes, they held children prisoners, but . . ." is beyond my ability to comprehend without getting extremely angry.
Drew, I demand you retract that implication about my words.  How dare you twist them like that?  How dare you imply I'm in any way an apologist for the atrocities of that monster?  My point is that we should not use his atrocities as an apologia for the extremely reckless course the Bush administration has taken.  That we can't reduce the world to a comic book and assume that any action taken against an evil person will automatically result in rainbows and sunshine.

You and I are totally in agreement about the atrocities of Saddam's regime, and I find it atrocious that you would imply otherwise.  The only place where we disagree is on what the right response to it should've been.  That is what I object to -- the simpleminded assumption that the problem automatically justifies the solution, and the deeply malicious assumption that anyone who disagrees with the government's solution is part of the problem.  How dare you, Drew?  How the hell dare you imply that I could possibly apologize for the brutalization of children?  We've had our disagreements, but this is the most awful thing you've ever said about me, and I DEMAND that you apologize!  How dare you vilify me with this kind of mindless propagandistic b*llsh*t?

I know I'm violating my responsibilities as a moderator here, but I don't care -- the implication of your words is utterly inexcusable.  You have gone beyond the pale here.  You, who are so hypersensitive in the Mod Lounge to the tiniest implication of aspersions against a poster -- now you turn around and accuse me of sanctioning child abuse???  That is sheer hypocrisy.  Shame on you!
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#20 Rov Judicata

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Posted 09 April 2003 - 11:13 PM

^

I don't think that's what he meant Chris.

I don't think he understands (and I don't either) how people can advocate sitting by and doing nothing while people suffer. I can't understand it either; negative consequences may come of this, but we're protecting ourselves and freeing innocents.

I seriously doubt Drew meant that you were advocating atrocities.
St. Louis must be destroyed!

Me: "I have a job and five credit cards and am looking into signing a two year lease.  THAT MAKES ME OLD."
Josh: "I don't have a job, I have ONE credit card, I'm stuck in a lease and I'm 28! My mom's basement IS ONE BAD DECISION AWAY!"
~~ Josh, winning the argument.

"Congress . . . shall include every idiot, lunatic, insane person, and person non compos mentis[.]" ~1 U.S.C. § 1, selectively quoted for accuracy.



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