Drew, on Apr 9 2003, 03:37 PM, said:
I'm sorry if you misunderstood. This goes back to an earlier conversation here.
See Item #1 I think anyone who says "Yes, yes, there are atrocities,
but . . ." is diminishing those atrocities; basically setting them aside for the sake of politics. I have no patience for those who would pay only lip-service to the atrocities committed by Saddam because their anti-war platform takes precedence.
And that is just more propagandistic twisting of my words. I am not arguing based on "politics," but on my understanding of the history and cultural dynamics of the region, and on the basis of very legitimate concerns about the dangers of heavy-handed interference in a region whose people already resent our past meddling.
I'm not just spouting an "anti-war platform." I'm a scholar, not an ideologue. Even if I approved of what our government was doing, I'd still insist that we all have an obligation to question it, to examine all the issues and be alert to all the possible consequences, good or bad. Patriotism doesn't mean blind obedience, it means informed participation. And that means we have a responsibility to ourselves and to our country not to let our immediate, visceral reactions lead us to forget the long-term risks and complications.
I would say, on the contrary, that it is you who are politicizing their suffering by claiming that it automatically justifies everything the administration decides to do, and that anyone who chooses to engage in critical debate, to ask questions rather than blindly embracing the party line, is somehow lacking in human decency. You're not apologizing here -- you're compounding your insult by caricaturing and vilifying my position rather than bothering to LISTEN to it and THINK about it.
Besides, it's hypocritical to say that this war is only about fighting atrocities. The US is doing nothing to fight the brutal oppression of women in our "ally" Saudi Arabia, or to end the horrific deprivation of the North Koreans, or to help the millions of starving, homeless children on our own streets. There are all sorts of atrocities that the government is doing nothing to fight, and many that its own policies perpetuate. Bush is closing schools. He's ballooning the debt which our children will ultimately have to pay. Just because one of his policy decisions has the fortuitous side effect of saving some Iraqi children doesn't make him a saint, or his policies right.
Of course the rescue of these children is a wonderful thing, but it's wrong to use it as an excuse for dodging the serious issues. We have to bring our intellects to bear
as well as our emotions, and we shouldn't let either one be clouded by the other.
Quote
Such histrionics. You know I didn't say you sanctioned child abuse. And my job in the Mod Lounge is to make sure that you and other moderators stay in line. That's my job. Being held to this scrutiny is part of YOUR job.
Which doesn't mean that you have license to ignore the standards to which you hold others. On the contrary -- nobody deserves to place himself in the role of moral watchdog if he doesn't hold his own morality to a higher standard than anyone else's. And I say that about Bush as well as you.
Kosh wrote:
Quote
I think the point was "How can anyone say that the war was not justified, after finding out that Sadam was holding Children in prison?"
That's just saying the ends justify the means, and I don't buy it. Just because someone's doing something evil doesn't mean that
any action taken against him is automatically good. I'm happy that Saddam's out of power, but I would've been happier if it had been done through the actions of a global coalition with the full support of the UN and the Arab world. We cannot impose peace on the Mideast, and if we try it will just lead to more violence. The only solutions to the region's problems can come from within the region itself.
Besides, you want to talk about imprisoning children, what about US lawmakers' fervor to get children tried as adults even in capital cases? Many other nations in the world find our justice system barbaric and immoral. Does that give them the right to overthrow our government by military force?
No, all I'm hearing here is the exploitation of these children's plight for propagandistic gain, and the use of it as a smokescreen to dodge the larger questions that must be asked.