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MERGED: New Pope Selected

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#21 Rhea

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:34 PM

Handmaiden07, on Apr 19 2005, 08:52 AM, said:

Did anyone think it was NOT going to be Ratzinger?

HM07

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I was hoping - he's so right-wing he makes J-P look like a panty-waist liberal. :p~

Edited by Rhea, 19 April 2005 - 12:36 PM.

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#22 Pallas

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:37 PM

Quote

On Monday, Ratzinger, who was the powerful dean of the College of Cardinals, used his homily at the Mass dedicated to electing the next pope to warn the faithful about tendencies that he considered dangers to the faith: sects, ideologies like Marxism, liberalism, atheism, agnosticism and relativism the ideology that there are no absolute truths.

Benedict XVI: German Pope Elected. I got it from here.

I'm a liberal atheist relativist (of sorts). Uh oh.... :hehe:

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#23 Zwolf

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:37 PM

Quote

Keeping in mind that because of the laws and regulations, a lot of young people were in effect drafted into the Hitler Youth.

Membership in the Hitler Youth does not necessarily mean "Nazi".

******* This is very true, and I'm hoping that was the case.  Since he went AWOL, it probably is.  Still, it's pretty spooky to have a Pope who used to be Hitler-Jugend, even against their will.   Not his fault that it's spooky, of course, but it's still strange.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#24 tennyson

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:40 PM

Lord of the Sword, Jesus was a Jew, that's as simple as I can put it.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#25 Anastashia

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:44 PM

I was actually thinking maybe Arinze but I guess we're not ready for that yet. It is interesting that the oldest 'available' man was chosen. But then again the Catholic church is what it is and anyone looking for rapid or drastic change is liable to be disappointed no matter who is elected.
The Science Fiction Examiner

In the quiet of Midden a young child grows.
Does the salvation of his people grow with him?
"Everything we do now is for the child"

"I made a mistake,
just follow along,
isn't that what tyranny is all about?"
Sheila M---my Praise Band Director

For as long as I shall live
I will testify to love
I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough
Testify to Love

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#26 Delvo

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:48 PM

Why do these guys go by names that aren't really their names?

#27 QueenTiye

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:52 PM

Cheile, on Apr 19 2005, 01:06 PM, said:

^ why would you say that?  last i heard there were three or four good candidates that supposedly had an equal shot at it.

then again i'm not very well versed in such matters, and not being Catholic, i don't much care abt the minuitae either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



This thread is confusing now that its merged... :wacko:

Anyway, assuming you were referring to my comments - according to reports, Ratzinger was the Pope John Paul II's right hand - the guy who was in charge of docrinal matters in the church (LoTS-I'm not sure he was the guy in charge of internal affairs...), and many of the cardinals were selected by Pope JPII, partially a result of the longevity of his rule, and partially a result of the need to spread out church resources more equitably, as I understood it.  And Pope John Paul II was typically in the habit of choosing conservative cardinals.  

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#28 QueenTiye

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:54 PM

Delvo, on Apr 19 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

Why do these guys go by names that aren't really their names?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Christian tradition - the same way Saul became Paul in the Bible.  They don't HAVE to change their name, but many do.  Someone can probably answer better than that though. :)

HM07

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#29 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:54 PM

Handmaiden07, on Apr 19 2005, 08:52 AM, said:

Did anyone think it was NOT going to be Ratzinger?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had hoped.  Just because I'm an exCatholic doesn't mean I don't care who is pope.  I have relatives I care very much about, even if they disapprove of me for having left the church, and I'm afraid this is going to be very bad for them.  :(

Zwolf666, on Apr 19 2005, 08:56 AM, said:

I know nothing about the guy, but I hope he does something good...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not a chance.  Not one chance.  :(

Steven_Q, on Apr 19 2005, 09:05 AM, said:

Everything I know about Ratzinger comes from the BBC profile of him, but he seems to be even more of a hardliner than JPII was.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep.  :(  

Zwolf666, on Apr 19 2005, 09:09 AM, said:

And he headed up the modern equivalent of the Inquisition?  Yikes. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep.  The Nazi Youth thing was pretty much obligatory, but the rest is his own.  Yikes, indeed.  :(

MuseZack, on Apr 19 2005, 09:19 AM, said:

This is what we get?  The Dick Cheney of popes.  Lovely... :pout:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know I'll remember this and laugh later, but right now I'm stunned.  :(

Rhea, on Apr 19 2005, 09:34 AM, said:

he's so right-wing he makes J-P look like a panty-waist liberal. :p~

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep again.  :(  :(  :(

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

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#30 Zwolf

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 12:57 PM

Quote

Why do these guys go by names that aren't really their names?

***** I think it's some kind of Biblical tradition, symbollic of some kind of rebirth or something, like Saul becoming Paul on the road to Damascus.  I'm not sure of that, though.  But if my name was "Ratzinger," I think I'd be eager to change it.  I wish he'd've thrown them a curve and become "Pope Steve I" or something, though... :)

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#31 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:01 PM

Handmaiden07, on Apr 19 2005, 09:54 AM, said:

Delvo, on Apr 19 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

Why do these guys go by names that aren't really their names?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Christian tradition - the same way Saul became Paul in the Bible.  They don't HAVE to change their name, but many do.  Someone can probably answer better than that though. :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm too freaked out to answer the actual question, probably somebody else will, but I have synesthesia, and I heard the name first, not which cardinal.  All the colors of the letters and numbers are good, but together they are dissonant for me, so I was sitting there, listening to the news, thinking who is it?  Who chose this name?  I figured it out just in time for my best friend to call to commisserate.  He knew I'd be very upset if der Panzerkardinal became pope.  The colors of his name, in that combination, connote, for me, true to tradition, betrayal of innocents, hidden stuff, and arrogance.  :(  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#32 Anastashia

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:04 PM

Actually since Stephen was credited as being the first martyr that would not be an unreasonable choice of a name.
The Science Fiction Examiner

In the quiet of Midden a young child grows.
Does the salvation of his people grow with him?
"Everything we do now is for the child"

"I made a mistake,
just follow along,
isn't that what tyranny is all about?"
Sheila M---my Praise Band Director

For as long as I shall live
I will testify to love
I'll be a witness in the silences when words are not enough
Testify to Love

Posted Image


#33 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:04 PM

Handmaiden07, on Apr 19 2005, 09:52 AM, said:

Anyway, assuming you were referring to my comments - according to reports, Ratzinger was the Pope John Paul II's right hand - the guy who was in charge of docrinal matters in the church (LoTS-I'm not sure he was the guy in charge of internal affairs...), and many of the cardinals were selected by Pope JPII, partially a result of the longevity of his rule, and partially a result of the need to spread out church resources more equitably, as I understood it.  And Pope John Paul II was typically in the habit of choosing conservative cardinals. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not only right hand, but right iron fist in spiked glove.  Late in his reign, JPII packed the College of Cardinals with right-wing yes men to make sure he was followed by someone of his ilk.  :(

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#34 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:06 PM

Anastashia, on Apr 19 2005, 09:44 AM, said:

I was actually thinking maybe Arinze but I guess we're not ready for that yet. It is interesting that the oldest 'available' man was chosen. But then again the Catholic church is what it is and anyone looking for rapid or drastic change is liable to be disappointed no matter who is elected.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We had such hopes for Vatican II.  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#35 QueenTiye

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:09 PM

Well, it's my hope that even with his conservative outlook, he does do some good.... what was said was that they needed a guy with a more internal affairs outlook - so if I were to speculate, I'd say that Pope Benedict XVI has a mandate to continue conservative theology while cleaning house internally, and after that, maybe someone with a more outward-looking perspective can be elected (this guy is really old...).  

I also note that conservatism isn't necessarily a bad thing - although in the Catholic church it has often come to be associated with some frankly disturbing practices.  On the news today there was talk of ordaining deaconesses, which has precedent in the Bible - a conservative reading of the Bible could possibly allow for such to happen...

HM07

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#36 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 01:24 PM

HM07, I'll try to find the link with the quote, but this is a man who brooks no dissent, not the tiniest bit, because he believes that what he believes is the actual, absolute truth.  He is not a man who listens to reason.  I shudder to think of the damage he is poised and ready to do.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#37 Kevin Street

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 02:26 PM

Well, I liked him on "Cheers." Guess those days are over now. ;)
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#38 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 02:36 PM

Kevin Street, on Apr 19 2005, 11:26 AM, said:

Well, I liked him on "Cheers." Guess those days are over now. ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Thanks, I needed cheering up.  Here's some information about him:

Yahoo

Quote

Controversial German Cardinal Elected Pope

  Top Stories - Reuters

By Philip Pullella and Crispian Balmer

VATICAN CITY (Reuters) - Conservative German cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was elected on Tuesday as leader of the world's 1.1 billion Roman Catholics, in a controversial choice to succeed Pope John Paul II.

Ratzinger, 78, the Church's 265th pontiff, will take the name of Benedict XVI. He is expected to defend John Paul's strict orthodox legacy and reject changes in Catholic doctrine. The white-haired new pope appeared on the balcony of St Peter's Basilica soon after his election by cardinals, smiling broadly and greeting tens of thousands of cheering faithful.

"I entrust myself to your prayers," he said as the crowd chanted "Papa! Papa! Papa!" and waved umbrellas and flags.

Benedict's election by a conclave meeting in the Vatican's frescoed Sistine Chapel was signaled by white smoke from the chapel chimney and the tolling of the bells of St. Peter's.

The speed of the election, on only the second day of the secret conclave, and its result were both a surprise.

Many Vatican experts had said Ratzinger, John Paul's tough doctrinal watchdog for 23 years, was too divisive and too old to become pope.

They had predicted he would have to cede to a more conciliatory compromise figure during the conclave although John Paul had appointed all but two of the cardinal electors and one of those two was Ratzinger himself.
The election indicated both that the cardinals wanted to maintain John Paul's strict Church orthodoxy and also to have a short, transitional papacy after the Polish pope's 26-year reign -- the third longest in Church history.

"I was surprised for a couple of reasons. One is his age...The second is that I thought he might have been too much of a polarizing person. But that may not be the perception that was shared by the cardinals," said Lawrence Cunningham, theology professor at the University of Notre Dame in Indiana.

"He is a very clever man, a great intellect and was very, very close to John Paul II. The one thing this Pontiff will represent is continuity," said Simon Caldwell of the British magazine Catholic Herald.

NEW POPE DOMINATED VATICAN AFTER JOHN PAUL'S DEATH

Ratzinger, dean of the cardinals, had dominated the Vatican since the death of Pope John Paul on April 2. He presided over the funeral Mass and daily meetings of cardinals since then.

He used a homily at a Mass before the conclave to issue a stern warning that godless modern trends must be rejected. The address was widely seen as promoting his candidacy.

He was expected to take a tough line against reformist trends in Europe and North America. In a Good Friday Mass this year he said: "How much filth there is in the Church, even among those who, in the priesthood, should belong entirely to Him."

Ratzinger's stern leadership of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, the modern successor to the Inquisition, delighted conservative Catholics but upset moderates and other Christians whose churches he described as deficient.

Before St. Peter's bells confirmed Benedict's election, there were 10 minutes of confusion over the color of the smoke, which initially seemed grey.


But even before the bells pealed, thousands of faithful in the square cheered and applauded, yelling "A pope, a pope!"

It was only the third time in a century that a pope had been chosen on the second day of a conclave. The new Pope had to win a two-thirds majority of the 115 red-robed cardinals.

NEW POPE TOUGH DISCIPLINARIAN

As John Paul's doctrinal overseer, Ratzinger disciplined Latin American "liberation theology" theologians, denounced homosexuality and gay marriage and pressured Asian priests who saw non-Christian religions as part of God's plan for humanity.

In a document in 2000, he branded other Christian churches as deficient -- shocking Anglicans, Lutherans and other Protestants in ecumenical dialogue with Rome for years.


Ratzinger was the oldest cardinal to be named pope since Clement XII, who was also 78 when he became pope in 1730. He is the first German pope since Victor II (1055-1057).

Before the conclave door shut on Monday, Ratzinger made a final appeal to his fellow electors to protect traditional teachings and to shun modern trends.

He made no mention of the challenges that other cardinals and ordinary Catholics say should top the agenda such as poverty, Islam, science, sexual morality and Church reform.

Born in Bavaria on April 16, 1927, Ratzinger was a leading theology professor and then archbishop of Munich before taking over the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in 1981.
:eek2:  :eek2:  :eek2:
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#39 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:19 PM

The question now is what is this Pope going to do about the dwindling church attendence, the dwindling number of Priests, ect. It's highly doubtful that he will allow Priests to marry, or allow women to become Priests, but he's going to have to do something...
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#40 Chipper

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:21 PM

Hopefully this guy won't keep his mouth open...my guess is he will not last too long, and they'll get someone better.

The only reason he got elected is because his birthday was on Saturday... :p ;)
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

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