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#41 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:23 PM

Myself I intend to hold judgment until he has done something more then step out on a balcony.  

Quote

Jon: Membership in the Hitler Youth does not necessarily mean "Nazi".
To add to what Jon says this is also the case very often for the case for the rank and file of the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, and Kriegsmarine.  The real diehard Nazis and party members tended to be in the Gestapo and SS rather than the regular forces.  Sure there were Nazis in these branches of the armed forces but they tended either to be poor schmucks who were drafted or some were men who were fighting more for Germany than any Nazi ambition.

Iím reminded of how Major Richard Winters 502nd PIR 101st Airborne.  So you are dealing with someone who saw major combat from Normandy to Bastogne, then liberated a concentration camp, and captured Hitlerís Eagle Nest so you are dealing with someone who saw the worse of the Nazis and fought them.  His statement is that he had a great deal of respect for the average German Infantryman.  

Iím reminded of the words of the German Uboat Captain in ďThe Enemy BelowĒ even as he hunts an American DE: "Nothing good will come out of this war, win or lose. There's no honor in it. Memories will be ugly. We will die without God."  

The point is that the man should be judged by his actions now not that bad situations he found himself forced into.  The simple fact that he has made no attempt to hide his past tends to indicate he was probably never a Nazi.
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#42 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:27 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Apr 19 2005, 12:19 PM, said:

The question now is what is this Pope going to do about the dwindling church attendence, the dwindling number of Priests, ect. It's highly doubtful that he will allow Priests to marry, or allow women to become Priests, but he's going to have to do something...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He's not a reasonable man, and he's not likely to compromise on anything.  :(  

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

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#43 Josh

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:29 PM

I don't like the sounds of this. Simply by the description I've been given in that article, I'm already against him. But I've been against a lot of Catholic church doctrine for some time now so that's no surprise.
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#44 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:29 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Apr 19 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

The point is that the man should be judged by his actions now not that bad situations he found himself forced into.  The simple fact that he has made no attempt to hide his past tends to indicate he was probably never a Nazi.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very true.  I judge him on his actions as a prince of the church, and I find much to dislike.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#45 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:32 PM

Nonny, on Apr 19 2005, 03:27 PM, said:

He's not a reasonable man, and he's not likely to compromise on anything.  :( 

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Oh I agree completely. But he's got to do something, otherwise what's the point? What's the point of having a church where nobody attends, and there are no priests, ect. If this new Pope isn't careful, he may find himself the Pope of a poisoned church...At least here in America anyway.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#46 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:32 PM

Josh, on Apr 19 2005, 12:29 PM, said:

I don't like the sounds of this. Simply by the description I've been given in that article, I'm already against him. But I've been against a lot of Catholic church doctrine for some time now so that's no surprise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's much not to like about Catholic church doctrine, and there will be much more with this pope.  :(

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#47 offworlder

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:37 PM

wow, been a lively piece of something going on around here today,
;)

couple things: Jesus of Nazareth was the son of Mary, so I expect he looked a bit like her, for she was a humble Jewish girl of Judea and so might have had olive skin and wavy black hair - not like renaissance painters painted in pieces for their patrons, I mean the roof overhead and the food on the table and the kids' education came from the patron's money, so you make the art look the way the patron will want it, including a European looking Christ  :blush:

Next, Bavarian kids were coerced into the Youth unless they might resist and have their families suspected and 'watched' and even ruined, (how would we feel as parents in such a time?), just like he was drafted into the Luftwaffe as an antiaircraft man ... but his own preferences show in his university career and his Church membership .........

Next, he was not promoted cardinal by John Paul, Ratzinger was a cardinal for over thirty years, and yes he was the head of the doctrine branch, the successor of the inquisition - but his good heart and old fashioned ways made him a cinch to become the closest friend and partner with John Paul. As well as their shared belief that, as John Paul pronounced, the Church is not a democracy: it is a faith of submission and obedience and belief in righteousness. ( I paraphrase because I don't have the exact quote in front of me)  :blush:  

This is a very old fashioned man and conservative, duh!, but those who know him report that he is wise and a good man, perhaps confident and righteous.

I join our president, just saw a clip of his remark, in welcoming his Holiness Benedict to the leadership and to the fold of world leaders, and while I'm not catholic I do pray that our Lord will guide and infuse his Holiness with a 'good and tempering spirit' to enhance his own wisdom, and open his eyes and his heart to the wider world of our modern day, even as I know how old and old fashioned this man is: he his the leader the cardinals want, and he is a good man who wants good and stable times for all. Let us all across the world welcome him and his thoughts and his heart to us and choose this day to extend our hands.
:yin-yang:
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#48 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:38 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Apr 19 2005, 12:32 PM, said:

Nonny, on Apr 19 2005, 03:27 PM, said:

He's not a reasonable man, and he's not likely to compromise on anything.  :( 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh I agree completely. But he's got to do something, otherwise what's the point? What's the point of having a church where nobody attends, and there are no priests, ect. If this new Pope isn't careful, he may find himself the Pope of a poisoned church...At least here in America anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm waiting for information about St Malachi, who predicted the final popes.  This pope, especially since he chose the name Benedict, is already being considered in some circles the penultimate pope.  Once I have this information, I'll post it.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#49 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:42 PM

offworlder, on Apr 19 2005, 12:37 PM, said:

Let us all across the world welcome him and his thoughts and his heart to us and choose this day to extend our hands.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I could not possibly welcome this man in any way, since he has already closed his thoughts and his heart to anything that has any meaning to me.  

My heart goes out to the women of the church, and all others in the world who will be harmed by this terrible man.  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#50 DWF

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 03:54 PM

Kevin Street, on Apr 19 2005, 03:26 PM, said:

Well, I liked him on "Cheers." Guess those days are over now. ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



LOL!!!! It's a wonder that after his name was read people didn't ask what they were smoking in the concave. :lol:  :whistle:
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#51 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 04:04 PM

DWF, on Apr 19 2005, 12:54 PM, said:

Kevin Street, on Apr 19 2005, 03:26 PM, said:

Well, I liked him on "Cheers." Guess those days are over now. ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL!!!! It's a wonder that after his name was read people didn't ask what they were smoking in the concave. :lol:  :whistle:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#52 Kosh

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 04:06 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Apr 19 2005, 01:17 PM, said:

So they elected the person that was in charge of enforcing the Church theology? At least that's what MSNBC reported...So basically they elected the person who made it church policy to move child molesting Priests from parish to parish, without informing the communities...or the local authorities...Great going!

I'm also curious...a friend of mine pointed out that according to the bible Jesus was African...he had skin of bronze, hair like sheep's wool...I haven't read that particular passage, but I have to wonder...If the Church is so biblical, why do they insist on portraying Jesus as a white man?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>




The King James version of the Bible, which most of us are most fimilar with, was done by white men, in England.










I guess Cardinal Law is still safe from prosecution.
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#53 Eskaminzim

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 04:32 PM

Regarding the taking of a new name (which doesn't have to be done, but most often is, especially of late), it's earlier even than Saul/Paul, at least according to my Catholic upbringing.

The first Pope of the Church was, of course, Simon, who Jesus renamed Kephas/Kipha (Rock) translated to Greek/Latin as Petros/Petrus = Peter.

So, changing your real first name to your "Pope name" kinda got started with the very first one.  ;)

#54 deMona

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 04:40 PM

alright, regarding taking the new name:  it actually started with John II in the 6th century.  his baptismal name was Mercury,  and he didn't deem it appropriate that a Pope have a pagan god's name, so...  

i'm happy with the choice of a new Pope.  i mean, God forbid the visible head of the Catholic Church on earth should stand behind her teachings...

Edited by deMona, 19 April 2005 - 04:41 PM.

Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'Ni!' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.

#55 Nonny

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 04:49 PM

I just remembered that about two weeks ago I posted in some thread about, I think, papal infallibility that Ratzinger was at the top of my list of those I hoped would not become pope.  No wonder it's such a horrible shock.  :(  :(  :(  So long as he doesn't try to bring back execution of "heretics" ....  But then I don't trust this man not to.   :angry:  :angry:  :angry:

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#56 Christopher

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 05:19 PM

What a shame that someone with a cool name like "Mercury" went and changed it to boring old John. :D

CNN did a report about a couple of the previous Benedicts, saying that although there have been many, there were no great ones.  (Paradox, though: if none of the earlier Benedicts was worth that much, how come the name has been used 16 times?)  Benny XV, from WWI, was a conciliator and ineffectual peacemaker, and it was suggested that Cardinal Ratzinger may have chosen the name to indicate a softening of his hardline ways, a willingness to be conciliatory.  However, it sounds like he's the kind of person whose idea of conciliation is "I'll get along with you as soon as you agree I'm right."

This choice is definitely going to put Rome further out of synch with the mass of Catholics today in this era of change and evolution for the Church, particularly with so much dynamic syncretism going on in Latin America, Africa and Asia.  Maybe Ratzinger/Benedict is a humble and decent man on a personal level, but he's also evidently a very reactionary and closed-minded man, he's expressed the belief that Christians are better than everyone else and has reportedly quashed even the debate about reforms, and he's going to end up at odds with the values of the majority of the people he's supposed to be serving.

All together now:
The Inquisition, what a show.
The Inquisition, here we go.
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away,
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!

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#57 Spectacles

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 05:26 PM

I wish Pope Benedict XVI didn't look like Richard Perle.

Well, I guess it remains to be seen if Ratzinger will continue to make statements like the one where he said that Muslim Turkey shouldn't be part of Christian Europe--or pronounce even other Christian faiths as "lesser" to Catholicism. John Paul II at least tried not to alienate everyone who wasn't doctrinally in step with him.
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#58 Kevin Street

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 05:29 PM

Christopher said:

All together now:
The Inquisition, what a show.
The Inquisition, here we go.
We know you're wishin' that we'd go away,
But the Inquisition's here and it's here to stay!

Nobody expects the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith! ;)

Nonny said:

I just remembered that about two weeks ago I posted in some thread about, I think, papal infallibility that Ratzinger was at the top of my list of those I hoped would not become pope.† No wonder it's such a horrible shock.† :(:(:(† So long as he doesn't try to bring back execution of "heretics" ....† But then I don't trust this man not to.†† :angry::angry::angry:

C'mon now, Nonny. He's not going to execute any heretics. Not even if they get lost on the way to the Colosseum and wander into the Vatican asking for directions... This is the twenty-first century, after all. When you get right down to it the Pope is "leader" of the world's Catholics in name only. It's not like some cult where people have to obey without question.

Edited by Kevin Street, 19 April 2005 - 05:32 PM.


#59 NeuralClone

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 05:39 PM

I have to admit that I find this choice to be utterly disappointing.
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#60 NeuralClone

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Posted 19 April 2005 - 05:39 PM

Kevin Street, on Apr 19 2005, 06:29 PM, said:

He's not going to execute any heretics. Not even if they get lost on the way to the Colosseum and wander into the Vatican asking for directions... This is the twenty-first century, after all. When you get right down to it the Pope is "leader" of the world's Catholics in name only. It's not like some cult where people have to obey without question.
Precisely.

Edited by NeuralClone, 19 April 2005 - 05:41 PM.

"My sexuality's not the most interesting thing about me."
— Cosima Niehaus, Orphan Black, "Governed By Sound Reason and True Religion"



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