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Ward of State Thwarted in Seeking an Abortion

Abortion Ward of the State

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#1 sierraleone

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 06:47 PM

Heres a link:

http://msnbc.msn.com.../site/newsweek/

Shes a ward of the state, and is 13.... in most states, IIRC, she is too young to legally make her own medical decisions, including abortions, so on one hand it makes sense in the fact its not her decision to make. (I don't know FL laws on this). How does a state decide for a youth though? I figure it occurs w/ a lot more frequency then is known (not that something happening more than known is a justification for anything). What happens to a young mother/child in fostercare though? Do they stay together if the mother wants or is the child placed in fostercare seperately?
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#2 Vapor Trails

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 07:59 PM

I'm in a foul mood today, and I wasn't going to post, until I read this article.

:angry:  :crazy:  :angry:  :crazy:  :glare:

If I were to say what I thought of the bastards that would force this child to go to full term, I'd be banned from this board permamently.  :angry: I'm already in a bad mood, and reading this article has made me bristle.

It's more than just about a right to life.

It's about a right to a DECENT LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'd REALLY like to see what percentage of these "right-to-life" folks give a sh!t about the baby once it's born.  :suspect:  :glare:

Edited by Digital Man, 30 April 2005 - 08:01 PM.

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#3 G1223

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 08:47 PM

DM some of them actually do. No one is going to be happy with this. If the girl wanted the baby and state wanted to abort it would you be so wanting to see that her choice was protected? Or would you fall for the same course of action that the state has taken which is a 13 yr cannot make the choice.

Now while I agree that it's not the best choice for the girl in my opinion. I did not write the laws for the state of Florida. I cannot speak for the people  of that state who might be for all we know a actual majority of the people in florida who feel that it's wrong. But that is the what the ruling supreme court allows for. That being the states have the right to set limits or to even ban abortion. But if a person in state A cannot get an abortion in her state and goes to State B she cannot have action taken against her.

Abortion laws are a compromise becasue this issue is something not everyone agrees upon and the fact with all compromisesyou do not get all of what you want and neither side is going to come away happy but will come away something that can be accepted by all parties.
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#4 eloisel

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 09:56 PM

Right to lifers are, again, responsible for a heinous situation.  The unborn baby should be put to death.  What kind of life could a child expect after having been brought into the world by an already trashed out 13-year-old mother and a god knows what father.  Considering her parents weren't fit to raise her, and the state hasn't been doing a good job of it either, this girl is definitely no mother of the year candidate.  The baby would, like the child-mother, be another drain on the system.  Besides, what business is it of anyone's but hers?  Taxpayers should not be paying for her housing, food, clothing, medical care,  nor should they have to foot the bill for her abortion or for the welfare of the child if it is born.  Honestly, why does anybody give a crap about anyone anyway?  Kill the baby and toss the trash to the curb.  Hey, if a person, after say 14, or pick an age you feel comfortable with, is a piece of crap, let's retroactive abort them and save the world a bunch of trouble.  And, when people get old and the generations they supported - shelled out a ton in taxes to educate and provide public services for - don't want to support them with their hard earned tax dollars, let's retroactive abort the old folks too.  In fact, we should all just simultaneously retroctively abort ourselves.  It would put an end to disagreements, chain yanking, bad moods, differences of opinions, and the planet would definitely be better off without the source of pollution.

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#5 sierraleone

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 10:04 PM

I found a link that says in FL law (or is it being considered to become law? I'll have to go find that llink again) that teenagers do have the right to decide to have an abortion or not, their parents do have to be informed IIRC, but don't actually have a say over the decision. :unsure: if true that makes it a fishier situation. and the fact this happened most recent (and third) time she had run away... and some accuse DCF of not trying to find her in a timely manner (not that she coudlnt' have gotten pregnant either way, but where were they.... if they didn't care for her then, they suddenly care about her welfare now?? somehow I find that hard to believe....) of course what I've read could be wrong, and their is probably lots more to this story.

Edited by sierraleone, 30 April 2005 - 10:06 PM.

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#6 G1223

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 10:10 PM

And are the parents held accontable for neglect if the abortion casues harm to the teenager? Sorry thatt is my reason for requiring parental consent or the order of a family court judge without the parent's being told.
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#7 sierraleone

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 10:22 PM

http://www.telegraph...01/ixworld.html

Quote

The Department of Children and Families, the state's social services wing, points to a Florida statute which states: "In no case shall the department consent to sterilisation, abortion, or termination of life support."

"We have to follow the law," said Marilyn Munoz, a DCF spokesman. "We can't consent, no matter what."

Quote

Opponents of the DCF's actions point out that the law allows under-age girls to seek abortions without recourse to their parents or guardians - a right enforced by the Florida Supreme Court in 2003. They argue that this right extends to wards of the state.

"No one is asking the DCF to consent to an abortion. LG has the right to consent to her own abortion," said Carolyn Salisbury, an associate director of the University of Miami's Children and Youth Law Clinic.

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#8 sierraleone

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 10:27 PM

At least the judge wasn't happy about her missing for a week w/out them informing law enforcements ;) :D though they said they notified someone.....

http://www.sun-senti...-home-headlines

Quote

The judge blasted the DCF, saying the agency never asked the court to issue an order to take the child into custody after her most recent disappearance.

"To say that I am angry at that would be an understatement," Alvarez said. "To rush into this court on an emergency basis because this child is pregnant and wants an abortion, I don't know where our priorities in life are. The priority should have been to make certain that an order to take her into custody was issued as soon as possible, and that she was found and taken off of the streets or wherever she was. But nobody cared."

Munoz said DCF immediately notified law enforcement in Pinellas County when the girl ran away Jan. 29.

Munoz declined to specify what agency was notified, saying that could compromise L.G.'s privacy rights by leading to information about where she was living.

"As we do in all instances when a child runs away from their placement, we immediately notify law enforcement, submit a report into the Missing Child Tracker System, and notify other state agencies as appropriate," the agency said in statement Friday.

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#9 G1223

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Posted 30 April 2005 - 10:36 PM

Then it better get solved by the court quickly. I can see where they have it right but I can also see the other part of the law having a legal basis.
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#10 eloisel

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 05:18 AM

Women die from legal abortions too.  And, again, this kid seems to have a bunch of problems that being pregnant is just one of.  True, she has a right to a decent life.  What kind of decent life is she having if she is a ward of the state, a runaway from the group home she was living in after her parents lost custody of her to the state, and she is pregnant?  Abortion just isn't much of a solution for this kid's problems.  And, how come she is pregnant in the first place?

#11 sierraleone

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 08:05 AM

^ I suppose she had sex is not that answer you're looking for ;) (or maybe was raped). I assume you are asking where was the DCF when she had run away and got pregnant. Even if she had been at their home/facility, she has to leave the house to go to school... its not like it still couldn't have happened. Unless she is driven to school, driven home, and never allowed outside the house otherwise...  :ninja:
Even then she could skip all or some of school, though DCF would probably be advised, unless they home school her, can they prevent it?

Edited: For using work abbreviations, gawd I can't get away from that place! ;) (abbr advised as adv)

Edited by sierraleone, 01 May 2005 - 08:07 AM.

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#12 Spectacles

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 10:07 AM

Years ago, when I worked with juvenile delinquents in a residential program, I discovered that many were kids who had been wards of the state for years, shuffled from home to home, unwanted and painfully aware of that fact. Their ability to attach to others was impaired beyond repair. Some were hardened sociopaths at fifteen. Some were just lost souls.

This girl reminds me of a few of the girls I knew in that facility: streetwise, smart, assertive. In her exchanges with the judge, she definitely bests him.

Should she be pregnant at thirteen? No.  But she is. Will carrying this child fullterm improve her life? Doubtful. Will the child have much hope as it enters the world? Also doubtful.

Now, I'm not crazy about abortion. I'd much prefer that we live in a world where they didn't exist, where every pregnancy was welcome. In order for that to happen, though, the world needs to be a much more hopeful place. In reality, if this girl is forced by the state to carry this child full-term, there's a possibility that she'll find a way to induce a miscarriage, just as women did before abortion was legal.

One of her concerns, in addition to being too young to be a mother, is her fear that pregnancy at her age is dangerous. It's apparently not an unfounded fear. We can argue that she should've thought about that, but it doesn't change the situation.

Quote

Dr. Ethelene Jones, an expert in obstetrics and gynecology, testified earlier in the hearing that abortions are "definitely" safer than full term pregnancies for girls L.G.'s age.

"At her age and at her stage of gestation ... her risk of death from an abortion procedure is about 1 in 34,000," said Jones, who has held positions at Planned Parenthood and the ACLU. "The risk of death in pregnancy is about 1 in 10,000."

So, if this doctor is citing correct figures, this child is three times more likely to die from carrying her child fullterm than from having an abortion. That would give me pause, too.

The bottom line appears to be that she is within her legal rights to obtain an abortion. But because of the politics of abortion these days, there is an effort afoot to take advantage of her limbo as ward of the state and deny her that legal right.
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#13 Spectacles

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 10:10 AM

Oops. Here's a link to the article from which the quote comes. It's worth reading.

http://www.sun-senti...-home-headlines
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#14 sierraleone

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 10:13 AM

Spectacles, on May 1 2005, 11:07 AM, said:

Years ago, when I worked with juvenile delinquents in a residential program, I discovered that many were kids who had been wards of the state for years, shuffled from home to home, unwanted and painfully aware of that fact. Their ability to attach to others was impaired beyond repair. Some were hardened sociopaths at fifteen. Some were just lost souls.

Perhaps one of the other reasons she doesn't want to carry the kid to term is she knows what its like to be unwanted. I thought she came on top infront of that judge too.... not neccessarily from a right or wrong stand point, but a debate stand point.

I saw that figure of her chance of death from an abortion vs. giving birth at her age as well....
Just out of curiousity, does death from abortion increase as one is further along in the pregnancy?
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Rule#6: Remember the future.
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Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#15 Nonny

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 12:22 PM

I feel sorry for this poor child, and I'm disgusted with the adults who stepped in and made an issue of the choice she made for herself.  As they force their views on her, they also force her to remain pregnant, possibly hoping to run out the clock.  

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#16 Rhea

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 12:35 PM

I've seen 13-year-old moms, and believe me, it's not a pretty sight. Talk about a child raising a child....   :eek4:

Not only are they not mostly physically mature enough to truly carry a child (yes, I know, if they're old enough to screw..but just being old enough to have a period doesn't mean your body is mature enough to bear a child - it just seems that way).

Can you imagine dragging your baby to JUNIOR HIGH classes?  :eek2:

And on top of that, even assuming this was a remarkably reponsible 13-year-old (a contradiction in terms, for most :p), what happens if she can't take care of the baby? Yet another unwanted child in the public system. God save me from do-gooders.  :crazy:
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#17 Anastashia

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 01:18 PM

Actually I'm appalled that so many here are assuming that if this girl has her baby she will keep it. What about the potential for adoption? Certainly the availability of adotive homes for infants is still a positive thing.
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#18 G1223

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 01:28 PM

Ani I think most folks here are hoping that on top of forcing her to have the child sheis not going to have her child taken away from her just like she was some sort of breeder for adoption services.

Personally this is a mistake and one the courts are going to have to work out. But I can see no real good choice comming out of this.
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#19 eloisel

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 02:41 PM

Nonny, on May 1 2005, 05:22 PM, said:

I feel sorry for this poor child, and I'm disgusted with the adults who stepped in and made an issue of the choice she made for herself.  As they force their views on her, they also force her to remain pregnant, possibly hoping to run out the clock. 

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I feel badly for this girl, too, because she is stupid because she is 13, and her life is already in a shambles.  What disgusts me is that she will probably win the right to kill a viable baby in the end with a partial birth abortion.  

So far as running out the clock, I wonder if the boy who was the matter of the Roe v. Wade ruling is ever sorry that his mother didn't win the right in time to kill him while he was still in the womb.  But, then, I imagine those who are pro-abortion have already been born.

I see this abortion as this girl and other pro-abortionists forcing their views on me.  Who is paying for her abortion?  Taxpayers - of which I am one.  If people who live off the government don't want taxpayers forcing their views on them, then they need to get off the government handout list.  And, while this 13 year old girl does not have the option to chose not to be a government handout recipient, the people who are most interested in her right to have an abortion are doing so to further their agenda - "see, we have to have abortion because of pregnant 13 year old girls!"  Otherwise, why don't they take their own advice dished out so heavily in the Schiavo case - "what business is it of theirs?"  Or is it only someone's business when it is to justify the right to kill and not to justify the right to live?

What kind of excuse is the baby will ruin the mother's quality of life?  So, because some joker is sitting in the car next to me, his radio blaring some crap he calls music that is ruining the quality of my life at the moment, I can abort him?  How about the neighbor's dogs bark all night ruins my quality of life because of the lack of sleep?  Can I abort them too?  How about all the folks living off my dime- they are definitely ruining the quality of my life.  If somebody can honestly sit there and say, "In xxx amount of time I am going to mistreat and abuse a person," then that person has some issues an abortion won't fix and needs to get themselves locked up in a straight jacket in a padded room and heavily sedated pronto.

Still, as much as I'm disgusted by this situation, that girl probably should have an abortion immediately because it is more dangerous for her to carry the child to term.  Hopefully, if the procedure doesn't kill her, she will have a change of heart and learn some respect for life and not just for her own.  What is that saying, "wish in one hand and $#)* in the other, see which one gets full first."

#20 G1223

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Posted 01 May 2005 - 02:55 PM

Nonny, on May 1 2005, 05:22 PM, said:

I feel sorry for this poor child, and I'm disgusted with the adults who stepped in and made an issue of the choice she made for herself.  As they force their views on her, they also force her to remain pregnant, possibly hoping to run out the clock. 

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And if this child had cancer but did not want Chemo treatments but the foster parents did would you be as so condemming of them?  Sad thing is that children do not get to choose their medical treatments. After all I think asking a six yr old if his leg needs to be removed due to a tumor or serious illness would be nearly pointless but maybe the child would think differently.
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