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It's Okay If You're A Republican, chapter MCMXXXIV

Politics-American Republicans GOP Laura Bush

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#1 MuseZack

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:06 PM

Does anyone else remember a certain departer poster's outraged linking last summer to an article about Teresa Heinz Kerry's approval of an "Asses of Evil" button?  Or indeed, the generalized Republican outrage at Whoopi Goldberg making vaguely naughty anti-Bush puns at a private fundraiser?  Of course you do.  

Well, it would seem that we're all supposed to forget that and find it bold and charming when Laura Bush goes on national television and makes jokes about her husband masturbating a horse and failing to sexually service her.  

http://www.nytimes.c.../03tierney.html?

But on Saturday night, Laura Bush set a new standard. After interrupting her husband and telling him to sit down, she did a stand-up routine that included what was probably the first joke told in earshot of a president that involved him and a horse's phallus.

Mrs. Bush called her husband Mr. Excitement for going to bed by 9 o'clock and turning her into a "desperate housewife." She said that Lynne Cheney's Secret Service code name became Dollar Bill after they both went to Chippendales (where they ran into Sandra Day O'Connor and Ruth Bader Ginsburg). Noting that Andover and Yale did not have "real strong ranching programs," she said Mr. Bush had started his ranching career by trying to milk a horse - a male horse.



I actually don't mind the First Lady making ribald jokes at all.  My favorite comedienne is Margaret Cho, after all.  But I'm so freaking sick of the media and Republican hypocricy that results in off-color language at a private fundraiser getting treated with shock and horror while a trash-talking First Lady is applauded for loosening up her image.   And I'm waiting for all of the finger-waggers from the election season last year--and yes, I include the people on this board--to either condemn the language when it's used in this context or at the very least admit that they were using mock outrage for political purposes the last time around.

(note: after recieving a private message from the departed person-- not so departed as we were led to believe, to paraphrase Khan Noonian Singh-- I've decided to delete his name from the post.  The point still stands, and indeed has been made now that he's read it.)

Edited by MuseZack, 05 May 2005 - 08:35 AM.

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#2 Rov Judicata

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:28 PM

I actually wasn't outraged at the Heinz-Kerry thing, nor do I recall caring much about the Goldberg fracas. It's possible I'm misremembering; the election is one big haze I'd rather forget.

In any case, there is a crucial difference. Surely there's a difference between off-color jokes told by somebody's loving wife and off-color jokes told by a political enemy. As a general principle, we often jokingly say things to or about friends that we would never say about or to strangers or opponents.

If Ms. Bush had taken the opportunity to, for instance, joke about Ted Kennedy's inability to drive on water, I could see the equivalence.
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#3 MuseZack

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 06:37 PM

Juris Rovvius, on May 3 2005, 11:28 PM, said:

If Ms. Bush had taken the opportunity to, for instance, joke about Ted Kennedy's inability to drive on water, I could see the equivalence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Given Ms. Bush's own unfortunate history behind the wheel of a car, that would have been inappropriate indeed.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
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#4 Spectacles

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:27 PM

:D

Gotta admit, though; Laura had some good material. Whoever wrote it (and I doubt it was Bill Frist or Rick Santorum) made some damned funny observations--of course there was a lot to work with. And she has a nice, dry delivery. I've never liked her more.  ;)

True, it's all a matter of who's telling the jokes. Which means that moral outrage is often relative even among some absolutists.  :eek4:  For instance, had, say, Hillary told some of them, the airwaves would be humming with condemnations of their "off-color"-ness. So I see your point.
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#5 Delvo

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:33 PM

Spectacles, on May 3 2005, 07:27 PM, said:

True, it's all a matter of who's telling the jokes. Which means that moral outrage is often relative even among some absolutists.  :eek4:  For instance, had, say, Hillary told some of them, the airwaves would be humming with condemnations of their "off-color"-ness. So I see your point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not just who tells them. It's also what the actual words are. The ones in this recent case were just silly and absurd. Other jokes are just plain attacks and insults, nothing else, with their supposed "humor" being just an excuse for the attacks & insults.

#6 HubcapDave

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:38 PM

There is also somehting to be said for the manner of execution.

Whoopi was being outright vulgar andcrude, pointing to her private parts.

Heinz-Kerry was just plain stupid with her buttons.

Mrs. Bush told what would be somewhat off-color jokes, but managed deliver them in a manner that was not crude. If she said something to the effect of, "So I come out, and there's George and he's got the horse by his c*ck and he's jerkin'
the horse off like there's no tomorrow!" I might agree with your assessment. But she told these jokes in a way that leaves it up to the imagination of the listener as to what happened.

There's also the aspect that her jokes are in the context of "roasting", wheras Whoopi and Heinz-Kerry's actions were meant to be demeaning.

#7 MuseZack

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:43 PM

HubcapDave, on May 4 2005, 12:38 AM, said:

There is also somehting to be said for the manner of execution.

Whoopi was being outright vulgar andcrude, pointing to her private parts.

Heinz-Kerry was just plain stupid with her buttons.

Mrs. Bush told what would be somewhat off-color jokes, but managed deliver them in a manner that was not crude. If she said something to the effect of, "So I come out, and there's George and he's got the horse by his c*ck and he's jerkin'
the horse off like there's no tomorrow!" I might agree with your assessment. But she told these jokes in a way that leaves it up to the imagination of the listener as to what happened.

There's also the aspect that her jokes are in the context of "roasting", wheras Whoopi and Heinz-Kerry's actions were meant to be demeaning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Ah, so it's true.  It really is Okay If You're A Republican ™, because of some magical sort of line delivery.  And how convenient that we have selfless Republicans like HubcapDave ready to offer themselves as neutral, unbiased judges of what's demeaning and what's all in good fun.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#8 HubcapDave

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:53 PM

MuseZack, on May 3 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

HubcapDave, on May 4 2005, 12:38 AM, said:

There is also somehting to be said for the manner of execution.

Whoopi was being outright vulgar andcrude, pointing to her private parts.

Heinz-Kerry was just plain stupid with her buttons.

Mrs. Bush told what would be somewhat off-color jokes, but managed deliver them in a manner that was not crude. If she said something to the effect of, "So I come out, and there's George and he's got the horse by his c*ck and he's jerkin'
the horse off like there's no tomorrow!" I might agree with your assessment. But she told these jokes in a way that leaves it up to the imagination of the listener as to what happened.

There's also the aspect that her jokes are in the context of "roasting", wheras Whoopi and Heinz-Kerry's actions were meant to be demeaning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Ah, so it's true.  It really is Okay If You're A Republican ™, because of some magical sort of line delivery.  And how convenient that we have selfless Republicans like HubcapDave ready to offer themselves as neutral, unbiased judges of what's demeaning and what's all in good fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And how nice it is to have you be non-partisan and not twist my meaning into something it's not.

Now, if Mrs. Bush had taken the time to make a joke which refers to John Kerry as a piece of a horse's anatomy, then your petty whining might actually mean something. But since the contexts are so different, you're doing nothing but comparing apples and oranges so you can feel morally outraged at Republicans.

#9 MuseZack

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:14 PM

HubcapDave, on May 4 2005, 12:53 AM, said:

MuseZack, on May 3 2005, 05:43 PM, said:

HubcapDave, on May 4 2005, 12:38 AM, said:

There is also somehting to be said for the manner of execution.

Whoopi was being outright vulgar andcrude, pointing to her private parts.

Heinz-Kerry was just plain stupid with her buttons.

Mrs. Bush told what would be somewhat off-color jokes, but managed deliver them in a manner that was not crude. If she said something to the effect of, "So I come out, and there's George and he's got the horse by his c*ck and he's jerkin'
the horse off like there's no tomorrow!" I might agree with your assessment. But she told these jokes in a way that leaves it up to the imagination of the listener as to what happened.

There's also the aspect that her jokes are in the context of "roasting", wheras Whoopi and Heinz-Kerry's actions were meant to be demeaning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Ah, so it's true.  It really is Okay If You're A Republican ™, because of some magical sort of line delivery.  And how convenient that we have selfless Republicans like HubcapDave ready to offer themselves as neutral, unbiased judges of what's demeaning and what's all in good fun.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And how nice it is to have you be non-partisan and not twist my meaning into something it's not.

Now, if Mrs. Bush had taken the time to make a joke which refers to John Kerry as a piece of a horse's anatomy, then your petty whining might actually mean something. But since the contexts are so different, you're doing nothing but comparing apples and oranges so you can feel morally outraged at Republicans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Let's see...when it was Republicans like you who spent most of last summer and fall whipping up mock outrage over the use of coarse language and ribald jokes at private functions, yet now it's hunky dory when the First Lady does it on national television.  And like I said above, I don't care about the language-- I'm just irritated by the blatant double standard and hypocricy you're showing.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#10 eloisel

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 08:59 PM

I just liked it that she told George to sit down.

#11 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 10:35 PM

Guys and Gals: I would suggest that everyone take a step back and consider what they are saying.  This thread is heating up a little bit.  Please try to remain civil.
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#12 Nick

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 11:21 PM

^What CJ said.

#13 QueenTiye

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 11:57 PM

Delvo's right.  The difference so far as I can tell is that she's poking fun at people in her own camp, and so the implication is "all in good fun."  One might be shocked at the crude humor, if it is that, but none can deny that it is, after all, humor.  Morality policing would be required to take issue with it.

To the contrary, the Theresa Heinz Kerry stuff was humor at someone else's expense - someone NOT in her camp, and so it could only come off as schoolyard bullying.

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#14 tennyson

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 12:30 AM

I'm not a Republican, in fact I'm a Democrat (just look at my voter registration) and I see a difference. Although they keep playing that "desperate housewife" quip so much like its the second coming of Johny Carson or something that I didn't hear any of the rest of it until this very thread.
Back then as today I don't think using the kind of terms mentioned in the Goldberg joke to refer to a sitting president or calling him a chimp or any of the rest of it were in good taste or showed any level of respect of a person that they obviously regarded with disdain. As far as I can tell from Laura Bush's comments there wasn't any use of swear words at all and it was done in a gentle and friendly manner. I don't see them having any similarities aside from the most general category of them both being comedy aimed at adults.

edited for spelling and grammar mistakes.

Edited by tennyson, 04 May 2005 - 01:27 AM.

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#15 Mr.Calgary

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 01:17 AM

HubcapDave, on May 3 2005, 05:38 PM, said:

There is also something to be said for the manner of execution.

Whoopi was being outright vulgar and crude, pointing to her private parts.

Heinz-Kerry was just plain stupid with her buttons.

(snip)

There's also the aspect that her jokes are in the context of "roasting", wheras Whoopi and Heinz-Kerry's actions were meant to be demeaning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


HubcapDave, on May 3 2005, 05:53 PM, said:

......you're doing nothing but comparing apples and oranges so you can feel morally outraged at Republicans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


QueenTiye, on May 3 2005, 09:57 PM, said:

To the contrary, the Theresa Heinz Kerry stuff was humor at someone else's expense - someone NOT in her camp, and so it could only come off as schoolyard bullying.

QT

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


tennyson, on May 3 2005, 10:30 PM, said:

As far as I can tell from Laura Bush's comments there wasn't any use of swaer words at all and it was done in a gentle and friendly manner. I don't see them having any similarities aside from the most general category of them both being comedy aimed at adults.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Right on all accounts.     Oops, is it okay to say right????  :lol:

Or should I say EEEvilly right?  :winky:  :winky:

Isn't May supposed to be my month for expressing moral outrage?  :whistle:
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#16 TechHarper

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 02:09 AM

Mr.Calgary, on May 3 2005, 11:17 PM, said:

Right on all accounts.     Oops, is it okay to say right????  :lol:

Or should I say EEEvilly right?  :winky:  :winky:

Isn't May supposed to be my month for expressing moral outrage?  :whistle:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No no no!  LIBERALS are evil.  Evil Liberals remember?  Hate America.  All atheists.  Pinko commies.  You know. ;)

You conservatives are dastardly!  Dastardly I say! ;)
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#17 eryn

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 02:11 AM

TechHarper, on May 4 2005, 01:09 AM, said:

You conservatives are dastardly!  Dastardly I say! ;)


We do try. ;)
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#18 TechHarper

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 02:15 AM

eryn, on May 4 2005, 12:11 AM, said:

TechHarper, on May 4 2005, 01:09 AM, said:

You conservatives are dastardly! Dastardly I say! ;)


We do try. ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



hehehehe!  :lol:

Er... I mean, dastardly!  :glare:

:D
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#19 Nonny

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 09:28 AM

MuseZack, on May 3 2005, 03:37 PM, said:

Juris Rovvius, on May 3 2005, 11:28 PM, said:

If Ms. Bush had taken the opportunity to, for instance, joke about Ted Kennedy's inability to drive on water, I could see the equivalence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given Ms. Bush's own unfortunate history behind the wheel of a car, that would have been inappropriate indeed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Damn skippy!  :blink:  

But didn't somebody in their camp try that one during one of the campaigns?  And isn't that how her driving record became public knowledge?  :blink:  :blink:  

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#20 Nonny

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 09:29 AM

eloisel, on May 3 2005, 05:59 PM, said:

I just liked it that she told George to sit down.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, that was good.  :lol:

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot



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