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Religion Christianity Democrats not welcome Baptist

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#41 G1223

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 04:41 PM

LotS I would leave the church either way. There are some acts I find that I would seperate from organizations I have deep reaching connections to. Then again I am not a church going Christian.


To me a Good Christian is
One who is a good Neighbor who gives what can be given.
One who lives within the teaching of Jesus
One who does not bother his neighbor's about their faith unless it is a distrubance. (Read as Loud booming Drums and shouting singers and revelers)

What I learned from Jesus
Respect the faith of others so you can have your's equally respected.
Treat people as they earn from their actions not for who they are.
Never take from people who needy in fact give what can be given.
Never mistreat those who are in need or those giving the needed help.

Now I admit I do not always do this but I try and ask God to forgive my failings.

So this is why I would have left that church. And I would have left itfor being asked to vote one way or the other. But I also would not going looking to collect a pound of flesh in way of revenge.


I also believe that killing in self defense, defense of another, or to protect the state from those who would murder again if allowed the chance is correct.

I do not see aboortion as murder if done in the first trimester. I can also see it being done past that time period to save the life of the mother. I can see it being done for incest, rape or extenuating circumstances that a court agrees upon.

Now I want to point out that there are likely worth causes this church has supported or organized. So who wants to shut down a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter because that is what you might very well do for your feeling revenge.


Then again what revenge are folks here entitled to? Is anyone hwere a member of that church? Did you give them money in the past? If you answered no then you can moral outrage but any desire to do harm is comming from a desire to do harm not to redress wrongs done to you.  And that is lacking in Christanity and maybe just as wrong as this church's action.
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#42 Spectacles

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 04:53 PM

Quote

Now I want to point out that there are likely worth causes this church has supported or organized. So who wants to shut down a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter because that is what you might very well do for your feeling revenge.

G, I don't see anyone here asking for the church to be closed. Several have stated that if what the preacher is reported to have said is true, then it looks a whole lot like he's put his church's tax-free status in jeopardy. What exactly is wrong with expressing that opinion? Or saying that one hopes action is taken, if the allegations are true. I'm missing something....

And if this true, then the most likely next step would be for the preacher to lose his job--and he should. Given that many members of this church think he's gone way too far, I think that if the church loses its tax-exemption, then he'll get the heave-ho and the church may re-organize--or even split, considering that many apparently agree with him that Democrats are bound for hell. The saddest part of this is the polarization and division he's fostered in the community by bringing politics into the pulpit.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#43 G1223

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 06:29 PM

Without the 501 status most churches cannot do business. They cannot in some cases cover the property tax. So that means the church has to close.

There is nothing wrong with expressing this guy is wrong but the bloodseeking I have read here borders on people who in my opinion would not be happy till they are indeed being allowed to lock up the place and laugh in the pastor's face.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#44 waterpanther

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 06:44 PM

The parishioners have some choices here:

1.  They can fire the minister and make sure his replacement understands he's not to cross the line between advocating positions and campaigning for a candidate.  
2. They can retain the minister, warn him that if he crosses the line again he'll be shown the door, and invite the excommunicated members back in.  
3. Or they can take responsibility for their actions and pay the consequences in the loss of their tax-exempt status.
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#45 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 May 2005 - 09:14 PM

G1223, on May 8 2005, 04:41 PM, said:

LotS I would leave the church either way. There are some acts I find that I would seperate from organizations I have deep reaching connections to. Then again I am not a church going Christian.

I also would've left...but probably not as quietly as you. And it wouldn't matter which side the preacher was pushing for...But, then again, I don't go to church, so that type of altercation probably wouldn't happen.


Quote

To me a Good Christian is
One who is a good Neighbor who gives what can be given.

I can't resist: You mean like State Farm? LMAO!  ;)

Quote

So this is why I would have left that church. And I would have left itfor being asked to vote one way or the other. But I also would not going looking to collect a pound of flesh in way of revenge.

That's where we differ...I was raised "old School" where if you F*ck with me it's a must that I F*ck with you. So while I would've left the church, I'd be looking for the Preacher's head of a silver platter.



Quote

Now I want to point out that there are likely worth causes this church has supported or organized. So who wants to shut down a soup kitchen or a homeless shelter because that is what you might very well do for your feeling revenge.

Good point. But I'm not looking for the church to close down...just to loose it's 501 tax exemption status. This preacher wants to turn is church into a politcal arm, so be it...pay taxes then just like everyone else.

Quote

Without the 501 status most churches cannot do business. They cannot in some cases cover the property tax. So that means the church has to close.

Then I'll settle for this preacher being fired and kicked out of the church. If that happens, and as long as the new preacher doesn't push politics, then I have no problem with the church remaining tax free.

Quote

Then again what revenge are folks here entitled to? Is anyone hwere a member of that church? Did you give them money in the past? If you answered no then you can moral outrage but any desire to do harm is comming from a desire to do harm not to redress wrongs done to you.  And that is lacking in Christanity and maybe just as wrong as this church's action.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No I'm not a member of this church, nor have I given money...but that doesn't mean I'm not going to speak my mind when I have something to say...especially when it's about something I believe to be wrong.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#46 Godeskian

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 01:29 AM

G1223, on May 9 2005, 12:29 AM, said:

Without the 501 status most churches cannot do business. They cannot in some cases cover the property tax. So that means the church has to close.

Then maybe the priest should have remembered that before he broke the rules. It is not the fault of those who enforce the laws that people break them. This priest chose to use his pulpit as a political weapon, and he should pay the price for his choice.

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#47 Nonny

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 09:02 AM

G1223, on May 8 2005, 03:29 PM, said:

Without the 501 status most churches cannot do business. They cannot in some cases cover the property tax. So that means the church has to close.

There is nothing wrong with expressing this guy is wrong but the bloodseeking I have read here borders on people who in my opinion would not be happy till they are indeed being allowed to lock up the place and laugh in the pastor's face.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Money is not blood.  

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#48 Rhea

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Posted 09 May 2005 - 02:24 PM

Lord save us from boobies trying to impose their world view on everybody else.  :eek2:  :angry: I'm not fond of the Baptists (having been raised one, a disillusioning experience if ever there was one), but I know of nothing that would allow a pastor to impose his political beliefs on his congregation. As far as I'm concerned, he ought to find another line of business, because even the Baptists don't normally encourage petty tyrants. Perhaps a challenging job as a crossing guard? (then he could spend his days telling people when to walk and when not to :p~).

Edited by Rhea, 09 May 2005 - 02:29 PM.

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#49 Spectacles

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Posted 11 May 2005 - 04:25 PM

Update: The reverend resigned. CNN played the tape on which he said that Kerry voters needed to "repent or resign." And one tearful young woman who supports the preacher declared this all "the work of the Devil."
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#50 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 12 May 2005 - 12:32 AM

Spectacles, on May 11 2005, 04:25 PM, said:

Update: The reverend resigned. CNN played the tape on which he said that Kerry voters needed to "repent or resign." And one tearful young woman who supports the preacher declared this all "the work of the Devil."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thanks for the update. Glad the GOP assistant/preacher resigned...Although it was probably the only way that the church would avoid having to pay taxes. Good riddance to him. As for the woman who shouted "All the Devil's work" that's her right to feel that way...as long as she's not a church official.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson



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