Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Does McCain have a chance to be Rep. nominee?

Election 2008 McCain Republican Nominee

  • Please log in to reply
62 replies to this topic

#1 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 27 May 2005 - 05:27 PM

I've been thinking a bit about the 08 presidential race. (What else you gonna do when you're stuck with the 04 results for four more years. ;) )

I know it's absurdly early, but there's already considerable talk about Hillary's positioning herself for a run in 08--and Frist.  

There have been times when I've been irked at John McCain and I don't always agree with him--and I have a hard time voting Republican these days because of its close alliance with the religious right and what we used to call Big Business. But I respect McCain as much as I respect any politician, think he's a pragmatic guy who would truly be "a uniter, not a divider" and would give serious thought to voting for him in 08 if he wins the Republican nomination.

Of course, in order for me to be placed in that quandry of maybe even voting for a Republican presidential candidate, McCain would first have to win the party's nomination.

Any thoughts out there on whether that's possible?
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#2 Delvo

Delvo
  • Islander
  • 9,273 posts

Posted 27 May 2005 - 05:38 PM

That question isn't like most ordinary questions of whether or not somebody can become the party's nominee... because it involves not just factors of the individual himself, but also the direction of the whole party.

If the party undergoes a great schism between those who are relatively Democrat-like and those who aren't, then McCain is the natural frontman for the breakaway sect, and then he'd win the nomination if that recognized movement gains much ascendancy within the party and its voter base. If the party doesn't face such an identity crisis, he'll be buried by his own tendency to go against the party and do what Democrats would have wanted him to do, because the party doesn't have, in its current form where the two types are all mixed together, enough of those who think that's a good thing.

#3 tennyson

tennyson
  • Islander
  • 6,173 posts

Posted 27 May 2005 - 05:41 PM

At this point anything is possible. There is so much rumor and noise floating about that may or may not have any relation to a potential candidates actual intentions that this is just too early to rule anyone out. I've not been right about who the opposition party will nominate since 1996 even a year before the nomination so choosing the obvious front runner isn't going to be a safe bet not to mention it being so early in the process right now.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#4 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 27 May 2005 - 07:39 PM

Quote

Delvo: That question isn't like most ordinary questions of whether or not somebody can become the party's nominee... because it involves not just factors of the individual himself, but also the direction of the whole party.

Very true. I guess I'm wondering in part if the Republican party can moderate enough to nominate McCain....I hope so because he strikes me as someone who would probably make a good President. If the party remains controlled by the Frists and DeLays, then McCain is definitely out of the running. Of course at some point, Republican centrists may just give up and do what Jeffords did and leave the party. Just as centrist Democrats switched parties when the extreme left ran the show in the late 70's early 80's, the Republican party may see a hemorrhage (or a purge) if the extreme right maintains control.



Quote

Delvo:...those who are relatively Democrat-like

I'm curious about this: what makes McCain "Democrat-like"?


Quote

Tennyson: At this point anything is possible.

True. And that's what makes it interesting. :)

I haven't fully thought it out, but I think that I'd have a hard time deciding between Hillary and McCain should those two be the nominees. Both are commendable in some respects and both give me pause in others....Now Anybody vs. Frist would be easy--I'd vote for Anybody in a heartbeat. ;)
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#5 Ogami

Ogami
  • Islander
  • 2,976 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 01:48 AM

Does Joe Lieberman have a change to be Dem. nominee?

Self-answering question either way.

#6 Kevin Street

Kevin Street
  • Islander
  • 6,256 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 02:01 AM

McCain would make a superb Presidential nominee. And he might be the only person credible enough to heal the Republican party of its many self-inflicted wounds. He certainly seems like a statesman, anyway.

Edited by Kevin Street, 28 May 2005 - 02:03 AM.

Per aspera ad astra

#7 UoR11

UoR11
  • Islander
  • 1,839 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 02:03 AM

I can't see McCain getting the Republican nomination under any forseeable circumstances, as I think the extremists will still be running the show through that election. That being said, I can easily see him becoming President in '08, assuming Frist and Reid continue on thier insane course of "Pure Hatred of the Other Side" politics. That could easily cause a breakaway from the moderate sides of both parties into a third party that would start with decent name recognition. A McCain-Edwards ticket could easily be run for the Presidency from that hypothetical party, which could make for some very interesting coalition politics.
Yes, I am an economist. Yes, I do frequently sing "Can't Buy Me Love". No, I don't see any contradiction there.

#8 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 06:52 AM

I've been wondering about the possibility of a third party, too, UoR11. All the demogoguing on the right and on the left, combined with legalized bribery by lobbyists and pressure groups, has made the pragmatists in both parties too dependent on their wedge-issue colleagues (school prayer, abortion, gays, guns, etc.)

We need very much for people from both parties to work together to solve our problems and stop the grandstanding for extreme constituents on the right and on the left. If they can't drown out the rabble-rousers in their own parties, maybe it's time to start a third.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#9 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 11:09 AM

I think if McCain gets the nod, he'll very likely win.   Heck, I'd be likely to vote for him myself, despite my  idea not to vote for any Republican for a long, long time (even though I used to actually consider myself a Republican at one point).  But I don't know if his party will let him become the nominee.   Most Republicans in the country (like most Democrats) are center-leaning, and he'd appeal to them.

I'm not really all that fond of Hillary, but a snarky lil' bastard part of me kinda hopes that the Republicans don't give McCain the nod and run some d-bag like Frist instead... and then Hillary stomps his ass and they're stuck with having to say "President Hilary" for four-to-eight years.  :devil:   Serve 'em right!   They already goofed by going with the vastly-inferior Bush instead of McCain the first time.   Overall, though, I wouldn't want a President Hillary myself.  I think she's smart and a whole lot more centrist than people give her credit for, but she'd further divide a country that's already too divided, and her presidency would likely be a failure just from the Republicans opposing everything she tried to do, anyway.   She's too much of a polarizing figure.  Better she stays in the senate and becomes a strong force there.

Cheers,

Zwolf

Edited by Zwolf666, 28 May 2005 - 11:14 AM.

"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#10 Chipper

Chipper

    Give it up

  • Islander
  • 5,202 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 12:04 PM

I would also like to see McCain run and would probably vote for him.  He was the best of the candidates 5 years ago, and he will be three years from now if he runs, IMO.
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

- Jenny Smith on Usenet, via Jid, via Kathy

#11 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 07:13 PM

Quote

Zwolf: They already goofed by going with the vastly-inferior Bush instead of McCain the first time.

Yep. And if Novak and Kate O'Bierne are any indication of the Republican establishment's thinking, McCain still makes them too uncomfortable for him to get the nod in 08. That was the impression I got from tonight's Capitol Gang discussion on the topic.

And that's a shame. Again. But it's early. It's quite possible that the winds might shift before 08.

Santorum's name came up as a possible candidate. If he runs in 08, he may not be running from the Senate, though. Santorum's not especially popular in PA these days--thank goodness. So I'm thinking that Casey's gonna win Santorum's seat in next year's midterms. Casey hasn't even begun to campaign and is already way ahead of Santorum in the polls. The religious right and his corporate sponsors will throw a ton of money into Santorum's campain, but at this point so many Pennsylvanians are so disenchanted with him it may like trying to make a silk purse of a sow's ear.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#12 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 07:28 PM

I just came across this article on how absolutely, positively furious the leaders of the religious right are with McCain. They're practically cussin'! And they vow revenge.

http://www.theledger.....05280316/1021
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#13 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 07:33 PM

Even I have more respect for the current GOP than to think they'd seriously go with Santorum....   The guy's got all the charisma of a metasticized cyst, he's got scandals all over him, and even though he tries really hard to play to the homophobes by protesting too much, he comes across as "fabulously swishy."  He's also too young and plastic-lookin'.  Can you imagine that guy trying to lead this country during a war?   I don't see him getting very far, unless the Dems decide to run Kucinich against him or something... :p    I really don't think the Republicans would make a bad choice like that.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#14 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 07:36 PM

Quote

Zwolf: Can you imagine that guy [Santorum] trying to lead this country during a war? I don't see him getting very far, unless the Dems decide to run Kucinich against him or something...  :p

:eek:
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#15 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 28 May 2005 - 07:43 PM

A couple of religious-righties at work the other day were really furious with the Republicans who made the compromise the other day.  They didn't mention McCain specifically, because, to be frank, I don't think either of these people know who he is.   Neither of them follow politics much - they just basically vote based on one or two issues and that's it.  One of 'em's not even familiar with Dick Cheney - I said something about "Bush/Cheney" once during the campaign and she thought Cheney was Bush's opponent.   They were mostly concerned with whether Trent Lott had "sold them out" and if they could write to Planned Parenthood or anything.  The one who didn't know who Cheney was kept repeating "I think if you're a Republican you should vote with the Republicans!" - which is really lame to my way of thinking.  I don't think people should always vote the party line if it's against their best judgement, whether they be Dems or Repubs.   But, like I said, this girl's not too bright.   The lady she was discussing this with kind of bowed out of agreeing with that statement, even though it got repeated two or three times, fishing for approval.    Anyway,  they both seemed pretty ticked off.    I don't know if they'd have issue with McCain for dissing Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson, though - I'm not sure if they're fans of those two.  

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#16 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 29 May 2005 - 08:52 PM

Spectacles, on May 28 2005, 04:28 PM, said:

I just came across this article on how absolutely, positively furious the leaders of the religious right are with McCain. They're practically cussin'! And they vow revenge.

http://www.theledger.....05280316/1021

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmmmmm....

Quote

McCain's role reopened old wounds. His 2000 presidential bid tanked in Virginia and South Carolina when he called religious broadcasters Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson "agents of intolerance" who exerted an "evil influence" on the Republican Party.
So it's telling the truth they hate him for, huh?  :suspect:

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#17 Call Me Robin

Call Me Robin

    red-haired and proud

  • Islander
  • 970 posts

Posted 30 May 2005 - 09:22 AM

And THAT is why McCain will not get the 2008 nomination.  As long as the lunatics are running the asylum in the GOP, McCain can forget about being president.
Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.
--Aristotle

The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
--Eric Hoffer

#18 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:11 AM

Quote

Robin: And THAT is why McCain will not get the 2008 nomination. As long as the lunatics are running the asylum in the GOP, McCain can forget about being president.

And that's frustrating to me. Yesterday, McCain's 08 chances were discussed on several of the "sabbath gasbag" shows, and the consensus seemed to be that while McCain is one of the most respected politicians in America, he'll have an uphill battle because the religious right and the rightwing, both of which seem to be calling the shots in the Republican party these days, will fight him tooth and nail. Which leads me to wonder why he remains with the party. According to polls, McCain would probably beat any Democrat in 08. The majority of Americans seem to think he'd make a helluva president--even those of us who don't agree with him on everything respect his integrity and his statesmanship and his pragmatism. But it looks right now like he won't be able to secure his own party's nomination--which says something about how un-mainstream the Republican party is becoming.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#19 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:16 AM

I think McCain is too far out the right circles to become the nominee and he's angered some of wrong people to help his cause.
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#20 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 30 May 2005 - 10:19 AM

The way things are going, I think it may be possible for the Dems to pick up significant gains in Congress in 2006, especially if Bush continues his current run of wet firecrackers--the Schiavo intervention, insistence on the SS "reforms" the public doesn't want, the continuing debacle in Iraq, oil/gas price increases--all leading to his continued fall in the polls.  If that causes the Republicans to reassess their positions and return to the mainstream, then McCain might have a chance as the one credible candidate they can offer.  If the right-wing radicals and the religious Dominionists remain in charge, they'll try to run someone like Santorum, which is likely to cause a stampede toward the Democrats.  The country wins either way.
Posted Image



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Election, 2008, McCain, Republican Nominee

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users