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Activist Judge Tosses First Amendment

Constitution First Amendment Freedom of Religion

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#41 Nonprofit

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 08:31 AM

The Judge certainly made the wrong call on this case.

We know very little about this case as we all know, there are more sides to every case that goes through the courts.   The way I see this is the parents did very little to help their son when the door was open to make progress with information,  they firmly would not walk through it.  But shut it completely.  They should have been forth coming and protecting the right to teach their son their belief system. You would think or as least I would.

We know that a confidential report was presented to the court. This is when the parents could have made a difference but made the choice not to speak out.

Quote

"There is a discrepancy between Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones' lifestyle and the belief system adhered to by the parochial school. . . . Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones display little insight into the confusion these divergent belief systems will have upon (the boy) as he ages," the bureau said in its report.

By not giving information they only hurt their son and perhaps made this quick case into something more.

RuReddy

#42 sierraleone

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 09:29 AM

^ This is not an attack on you, but this situation RuReddy.

[Rant]

A lot of kids grow up in bi-racial and/or bi-religion (yeah yeah, not a word ;) ) homes. And even if they only raise their kids in one religion, I'm sure they still get exposed to them both (even if not on purpose) through the in-laws.

From what I understand the message of Jesus and the message of Wiccans are very compatible.... talking about morality, not about beliefs in God/Devil/heaven/hell.

Many kids growing up has seen movies like Hercules, or the tv shows or other stories that depict the God roster of different religions, with different vision of afterlife. heck, they teach about Eyptian/Greek religion in school. Along with a bit about native american religion when I was in school. Does that lead to confusion because of divergent belief systems, which harm the child?
:smirk:

[End Rant]
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#43 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 02:21 PM

offworlder, on May 28 2005, 03:06 PM, said:

so just teach him what you want. But tell him don't go spouting it to all his friends, and that's the hard part: you don't want it around his school or the neighborhood but kid's like to talk their interests and how do you muzzle him? so then community and such might start up a hue and cry -

Would you say the same thing if it was christianity this Judge decided to censor?

Quote

third- the judge doing it: because he can- they can appeal if they don't agree with the judgement; AND if they feel he's acted wrongly, outside his bounds or against the justice rules, they can get a reputable attorney who's been a judge, and those ex-judge attorneys in their nice partnerships now know everyone and are influential and can get info and favors and everything, then take it to the bar (no not where you get Heineken but the one that controls lawyers and judges): get him censured so he can't rule like that anymore or he's disbarred.

That's one way...not the way I would've gone. But my way would've wound up with me in jail and the Judge dead. It's decisions like this that is the cause for Judges becoming targets today. And if it had been me, I most certainly would've made the Judge a target. Judges are NOT above the law. When they step outside of it, like this moron did, they need to be dealt with.

Quote

so beyond that it's a (or practically) moot point - teach him your wicca, keep it on the downlow, and go on about your merry way

That's like saying: "Keep quiet about your being gay." Or "Keep quiet about your being Christian." that just doesn't wash....if they did that we might as well just tear out the First amendment entirely.


<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#44 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 02:26 PM

Ogami, on May 29 2005, 02:21 AM, said:

Bitter spouses will use anything in a divorce.

The article was not what was presented to the judge, what was presented to the judge was whatever Wiccan "rituals" could be described in the most offensive manner possible.

That's divorce, and this article is meaningless compared to what was actually raised and presented to the judge as "unfitness for parenting" evidence.

-Ogami

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


True...but then again so are some of the rituals described in the Old Testament. If a person was to honor those rituals, slaughtering lambs, ect they'd be locked up on animal cruelty, accused of being Satanists, ect. So, should we bann parents from teaching Christianity as well?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#45 Nonny

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 02:50 PM

sierraleone, on Jun 1 2005, 06:29 AM, said:

A lot of kids grow up in bi-racial and/or bi-religion (yeah yeah, not a word ;) ) homes. And even if they only raise their kids in one religion, I'm sure they still get exposed to them both (even if not on purpose) through the in-laws.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Put it in the form of an adjective, and 'bireligious' is a pretty good word, actually.  You saw a need for it, you coined it, and that makes you not a lingweenie.  :cool:

:thumbs-up:

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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

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#46 Nonny

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 02:52 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 1 2005, 11:26 AM, said:

True...but then again so are some of the rituals described in the Old Testament. If a person was to honor those rituals, slaughtering lambs, ect they'd be locked up on animal cruelty, accused of being Satanists, ect. So, should we bann parents from teaching Christianity as well?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And how supremely ironic is it that those following Old Testament animal-slaughtering rituals would be denounced as Satanists?! :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#47 sierraleone

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 02:54 PM

^ thanks, I knew there was something wrong with it (besides not being a word) but I couldn't quite put my finger on it... if it and I ever becomes famous I'll certaining thank you for fixing it up, k? ;) :D
Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.
- Masha Gessen
Source: http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html

#48 Nonny

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 04:56 PM

sierraleone, on Jun 1 2005, 11:54 AM, said:

^ thanks, I knew there was something wrong with it (besides not being a word) but I couldn't quite put my finger on it... if it and I ever becomes famous I'll certaining thank you for fixing it up, k? ;) :D

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just doing my job as a linguist.  :blush:  Glad to help.  :)

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#49 Spectacles

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 05:14 PM

Quote

RuReddy: We know that a confidential report was presented to the court. This is when the parents could have made a difference but made the choice not to speak out.



"There is a discrepancy between Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones' lifestyle and the belief system adhered to by the parochial school. . . . Ms. Jones and Mr. Jones display little insight into the confusion these divergent belief systems will have upon (the boy) as he ages," the bureau said in its report.


By not giving information they only hurt their son and perhaps made this quick case into something more.

Hi Ru,

I read that differently. To me, it looked like the person writing the report was impying something that the parents did not agree with: that the difference between their lifestyle and that advocated by the school will confuse the boy as he ages. The father himself went to that school as a non-believer, so I guess he drew from his own experience in rejecting the bureau's argument that this would be in some way harmful to his son. Saying that he "displayed little insight into the confusion these divergent belief systems will have upon (the boy) as he ages" is another way of saying the parents disagreed with the bureau's belief, not that they withheld information....

And, dang, now that I re-read it, what a garbled sentence! "...the confusion these divergent belief systems will have upon (the boy) as he ages" ??? Does anything "have confusion upon" us? Shoulda been "confusion these divergent belief systems will create (or foster or something like that) in (the boy)."

But anyway, I don't think that displaying little insight implies "withholding information" but instead "not understanding"--or in this case, probably, "disagreeing." But given the weirdness of the wording, it's understandable how people could read different things into it.  :)
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#50 Nonny

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 05:53 PM

Spectacles, on Jun 1 2005, 02:14 PM, said:

And, dang, now that I re-read it, what a garbled sentence! "...the confusion these divergent belief systems will have upon (the boy) as he ages" ??? Does anything "have confusion upon" us? Shoulda been "confusion these divergent belief systems will create (or foster or something like that) in (the boy)."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe the judge's problem is that he has confusion upon him.  :rolleyes:  :p

Spectacles, on Jun 1 2005, 02:14 PM, said:

But anyway, I don't think that displaying little insight implies "withholding information" but instead "not understanding"--or in this case, probably, "disagreeing." But given the weirdness of the wording, it's understandable how people could read different things into it.  :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct.  Insight has nothing to do with information, and everything to do with understanding.  

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#51 _Bellatrix_

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 01:21 AM

If anyone is still looking for information about the different trads in Wicca then you should go to Witches' Voice. As a practicing Electic Wiccan I find the website to have the best information out there.

_Bellatrix_
No power in the 'verse can stop me.
Avy made by me

#52 Julianus

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 01:32 AM

Maybe it will turn out that this judge is a victim of another "bad ice cube." They lurk everywhere. ;)



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