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New hope for Rush Limbaugh!

Military Recruitment standards low standards

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#41 Call Me Robin

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 06:42 AM

dec55, on Jun 6 2005, 05:38 AM, said:

Walter Cronkite is one of the most venerated journalists around today, and you're calling him a fraud?   A man who knew how to report the news and you're calling him a fraud?  

As I recall...he said we lost at TET in Vietnam.....we didn't.....it was the
biggest defeat of the Vietcong that day..... and  President Johnson himself said Cronkite's report help the enemies' cause.......Even the North Vietnamese where elated at such a ally in Cronkite's reporting.  It was really a diservice to our troops that  fought and won the Tet offensive.........IMO

President Johnson got us into this mess, so of course he's have a...vested interest in blaming Cronkite and, by extension, saying Cronkite "helped" the enemy.

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And who is this "liberal press" bashing the troops, anyway?  Press coverage of the troops in Iraq has been pretty sympathetic.  This is not Vietnam.  We're not spitting on the troops and calling them baby-killers.

Well....not quite.......the whole Gitmo, Quran thing, (The not mentioning that the Quran was desecrated by inmates as well as a few soldiers that were the exception.)

The Quran story was in the media long before Newsweek reported it.  From what I understand, the Newsweek reporter in question showed the article to the Pentagon and nobody said anything.  Hmmmmm.

Abu Ghraib is a documented case of blatant prisoner abuse, and I've read that some of the inmates weren't even part of Saddam's regime--they were regular, run-of-the-mill criminals.  Is reporting on Abu Ghraib "bashing the troops" as a whole?

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Many Democrats said that soldiers targeted civilians and were torturing inmates, was common place at Abu Grabe with no difference between Saddams military by Kennedy.

That is one Democrat.  Are there examples of others?  What of ordinary Americans who were horrified about Abu Ghraib?  Are they bashing the troops?

In fact, many Democrats have served in the military, whereas most of today's prominent Republicans have not.  Check out this list (you may need to scroll down a little).  Even Teddy the K served in the army!

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They said they support the troops but undermine everything they try
to do to win this war.  I think it is best that we concentrate on winning and fix the
problems that need to be fixed instead of telling the world that their mission is
just for oil and not defeating Terrorism.  They know what they are fighting for..
and we should support them until their mission is completed.

How do they try to undermine what the troops are doing?  Howard Dean himself has said that we can't pull out now.  We broke it, we bought it.  

I support the troops, but not the war.  I believe we should've concentrated on stamping out al Qaeda and finding bin Laden.  

The best way to support the troops would be to stabilize the nation and then pull out.

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If you think it's nice that the troops get to listen to Rush, you'll be very happy that Al Franken has gone overseas to personally entertain troops!  :)  He's not just giving lip service to supporting the troops--he's doing it!  :)

Rush went to Afganistan during the winter.......

Yes...as part of a fact-finding mission for the administration, IIRC.  You don't see very many right-wingers doing this, though.  And, FWIW, former Democratic Senator John Glenn has gone to entertain the troops as well.  

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Are reporters with intelligence and integrity considered liberal these days?  If so, "liberal" is a compliment of the highest order!  I knew there were some good things about being liberal!   :)

I dunno....Rather still likes his forged documents.......he wants to use it again.
As for folks like Woodward and Burnstein.....money has become a sore point
with (Deepthroat Phelps).....and money from book deals.......

That again.  If you have a problem with forged documents and sloppy journalism, what do you think of Faux News and the NY Post making up stories?  

And it's Felt, not Phelps.  :)

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Like the movie said.   Follow the money....  It  isn't just for jounalism sake...anymore.  But hey Republicans knew that already.

Just ask Faux and the New York Post!  :)

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Or perhaps the jokes about Limbaugh really hit close to home for some people, huh?   :whistle:

I know conservatives like to pretend that the media is overwhelmingly liberal, but that's just dishonest.  Especially with Faux News, the New York Post, the Washington Times, and the overrepresentation of right-wingers in the media. 


Last time a poll was taken it was 80% plus  Democrat for the media, and most
voted for Kerry......  Folks are human....and when they hate GW Bush who knows
what they can do?

Where is this poll?  Is it a recent one?  Who produced it?  Is it a poll from an impartial source?  The liberal media?  You could've fooled me!  


Quote

It sounds like the right-wing media and their followers are engaging in a bit of wishful thinking, just as Limbaugh is busted for drugs, Bush's approval ratings drop, the GOP-run Congress is embarassing itself, and the Iraq war drags on.

See what you get when you watch the Liberal press......? I got news for you,
to this date Rush has not been charged with anything....nor is accused by
anybody to investigate his medical records officially.  There are no charges for even
Dr. shopping which has been reported for almost 2 years.  As for the Iraq war,
troops will be coming home soon. The new Iraqi military have just made their
first offensive against the Insergents and Al queda.....

Rush has not been charged YET.  Operative term...YET.  And where did you hear that the troops will be coming home soon?  Even Cheney says troops will be out "by 2009"--which is not "soon."  

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Iran and North Korea will be next.....on GW's agenda.

North Korea?  The country whose leader is a total nutcase with his finger on the little red button to launch nukes?  THAT North Korea?

Bush does not have the resources or manpower for military action in North Korea or Iran.  The resources are all concentrated on Iraq.  Military recruitment is down.  Reservists in their 40s are being called up for duty.  The military has loosened its requirements.

The only way Bush can even think of sending troops into these countries is if he brings back the draft.  Do you think the draft is a good idea?

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Perhaps we've reached a saturation point with right-wing media.  After all, screaming right-wingers have been overrepresented for years.  But now, Faux News is losing viewers, it seems.  Dennis Miller's show has been cancelled; Crossfire was yanked because CNN decided that they agreed with Jon Stewart's opinion of the show.  And Stewart?  He's still a ratings hit.  Meanwhile, Air America is up to 64 stations now and growing. 

Dennis was on some cable channel......nobody watches .....he will just go back to HBO
or Fox...... 

Miller has been described as an opportunist, nothing more.  I believe it.

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John Stewart tries to be neutral.....but is still dominated by Hannity and Colmes(Liberal). Plus Greta (Also a liberal gets John Stewart on the ratings at times too..)  Though Orielly is still king........;) (They says he is Conservative....but he says
he a independent......)

Miller's supposed to be a right-wing cheerleader and with promotion it could've been a hit.  Colmes is a punching bag, nothing more.  He is set up to be shouted down and silence.  So much "fair and balanced" on Faux.  I wasn't aware that Greta was a liberal.  She is an ex-trial lawyer, but that does not, contrary to popular belief, equal liberal.  Falafel O'Reilly likes to claim he's an independent, but in fact he is a registered Republican.  

Jon Stewart, meanwhile, maintains a loyal audience and has won Emmys while Falafel guy is losing viewers.

BTW, did you check out Spinsanity and Media Matters for America?

Quote

Air America is still losing money........I hear Sharpton may join up....and Rusbo wants
to give him pointers......

Air America is now stable.  Since it is only a year old, it was bound to have a rough patch.  I know conservative commentators like to say it's a money hole.  However, if that were true, Air America would not be adding stations.

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CNN isn't a sinking ship because of Rush or Faux News.  It's a sinking ship because it's not doing its job.  It's not reporting the news.  It is, like most mainstream media outlets these days, driven by corporate concerns, not journalistic ones.  And it's not exactly a liberal station--in fact, I hear a lot of complaints that it's trying to be Faux Lite.. 

Personally I think they should do what it takes to survive as a business. If it means
actually reporting with no bias and telling the public what your politics are would be refreshing.

Well, Faux News tried a much different approach from what you're describing...and it worked for a while.  :)

Since Faux is losing viewers, CNN can step into the breach.  Faux isn't doing what you are saying, so CNN should report the news reliably and with integrity.

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I don't doubt that Liberals love this country and care for all who are in it.....

I'm confused.  You just wrote that the "liberal" press and "liberal" reporters are trying to undermine this country and are bashing the troops.  Now you say that liberals love this country and care for all who are in it.  Which is it?

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I just
wish they would believe us Republicans are the same way even though we disagree on what to do.....we are not the Nazis
they say we are. And I am sure not all Democrats are Soviet loving Commies
that want GW Bush to be assasinated.....either.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Then conservatives should stop accusing people who disagree with them of aiding the enemy.  That attitude is anti-democratic and anti-American.  Period.
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#42 Spectacles

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:15 AM

Quote

dec55: I got news for you,
to this date Rush has not been charged with anything....nor is accused by
anybody to investigate his medical records officially. There are no charges for even
Dr. shopping which has been reported for almost 2 years.

Actually, Rush's legal troubles were stalled for a while by his attorney, Roy Black, who fought the release of his medical records. I think the prosecution now has access to the records and are in the process of building their case. So, this isn't over yet.
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#43 Zwolf

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 09:09 AM

Just chiming in to note one thing, which I don't think is completely off-topic at this point:  I, too, get dinged by moderators for things I say - in fact, it's happened in the past couple days.   It's not unfair, it's just something that's bound to happen from time to time when debates get heated.  Should it happen to you, please realize that it's because of something you said, not because of which side of the arguement you're on.   Be a man, shoulder responsibilities for your actions, take your knocks without any illusions that you're being "picked on," and spare everyone any martyr complexes.    Those never serve anyone well, anyway.

Thank you.

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#44 Nonny

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:20 AM

waterpanther, on Jun 5 2005, 10:12 AM, said:

If there is a draft, women will be liable as well as men.  Have to be--unconstitutional otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speculation among veterans is that Congress made that attempt to get servicewomen out of combat support as one step in the path to conscription.  :(

eloisel, on Jun 5 2005, 10:17 AM, said:

Interesting.  I've never heard of women being drafted before. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Women were drafted in WWII.  Nurses.  One entire graduating class from at least one school.  At a women veterans event a few years back, one of them was recounting how she thought it was a joke until the MPs showed up on her parents' doorstep.  

Hibblette, on Jun 5 2005, 10:52 AM, said:

Rolling Stone had an article not to long ago about why they [the government] don't want the draft started.

It was a very interesting article.

The bottom line was that there have not been that many protest of the war because this is a volunteer military we have at the present time.

If they start drafting there will be a whole new perspective for so many people.  Not just the ones that will be drafted but we parents.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I'd join you.  I've always been anti-draft.  I joined the Volunteer Armed Forces in 1973, and would like to see recruitment enhanced by fair treatment of service members, not enforced by conscription.  :angry:

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 5 2005, 11:12 AM, said:

Well perhaps the numbers wouldn't be so bad if the Administration actually STOOD behind it's soldiers....rather then charging them for their own hospital food when they get injured, throwing them to the media everytime a reporter spins a story, arresting and charging them with crimes when they are merely following orders...that sort of thing is definately going to have an impact on recruiting. I know there would be no way in hell I would join the army...I would expect the Government I'm protecting to watch my back also...which, given this administration, is apparently asking too much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AMEN TO THAT!

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#45 HubcapDave

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 12:47 PM

Quote

QUOTE
Air America is still losing money........I hear Sharpton may join up....and Rusbo wants
to give him pointers......


Air America is now stable. Since it is only a year old, it was bound to have a rough patch. I know conservative commentators like to say it's a money hole. However, if that were true, Air America would not be adding stations.

I wouldn't go singing the praises of Air America just yet either. I did a little research some months back on the markets Air America is in. What I found is that most places they are in, with a few exceptions, they are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to ratings in their market. Besides, 64 markets is about 10% of what Mr. Limbaugh has for his show alone.

Now, in my area (SF Bay Area) Air America transmits on 960AM, The Quake. 960 has a weak transmitter, so you can't really pick it up all that well (and power lines usually interfere with it quite easily. The last time I checked the ratings, it was being beat by the main liberal talk station in town, KGO, and BOTH of the conservative stations (KSFO and KNEW). And this is despite a heavy advertising push in this area (I have to say, I kind like the billboards they did).


Now, I won't join in the chorus and say that Air America is doomed to fail. I will say that they may find their little niche in the world and may do enough to keep in existence for awhile. However, based on the shrill rhetoric of what I have heard from the shows I've tuned into, I doubt they will ever compete head on with the Limbaughs or the Hannitys, or even the Glen Becks, Bill O' Reillys and Michael Savages of conservative talk radio.

#46 Call Me Robin

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 01:01 PM

HubcapDave, on Jun 6 2005, 05:47 PM, said:

[Now, I won't join in the chorus and say that Air America is doomed to fail. I will say that they may find their little niche in the world and may do enough to keep in existence for awhile. However, based on the shrill rhetoric of what I have heard from the shows I've tuned into, I doubt they will ever compete head on with the Limbaughs or the Hannitys, or even the Glen Becks, Bill O' Reillys and Michael Savages of conservative talk radio.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I dunno...shrill rhetoric worked for Limbaugh and his ilk.  I think it's a little early to write off Air America.  That's my point.  AND, IIRC, Limbaugh was on the air for a few years before he really rose into national consciousness.  Air America is about a year old at this point, and I know it's on satellite radio as well.  But you're right--being on a radio station with a weak transmitter isn't going to guarantee high ratings.
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#47 Zwolf

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 01:25 PM

Quote

960 has a weak transmitter, so you can't really pick it up all that well (and power lines usually interfere with it quite easily. The last time I checked the ratings, it was being beat by the main liberal talk station in town, KGO, and BOTH of the conservative stations (KSFO and KNEW). And this is despite a heavy advertising push in this area (I have to say, I kind like the billboards they did).

****** That's the reason for the low ratings, right there.  The last book I checked on (which admittedly was a while back) had Air America beating Rush Limbaugh in many of its markets.   But anything on a weak station is going to suffer, ratings-wise.  I used to work in radio, and political talk is a rough format to sell in the first place.  At one point we were airing Limbaugh on a fairly powerful station, and we had to drop him because sponsors wouldn't touch it.  Some of the sponsors were actually fans of his and still wouldn't advertise on his show because they were afraid of getting boycotted.   They'd get angry even if we dropped their spots in during Rush as "comped" with some other station deal.  That's why most of these talk shows have corpate sponsors that can afford potential boycots, and most of the "local avails" are filled with PSAs and stuff instead of local advertising.  

Anyway, years after dropping Limbaugh and after going through several more format changes, we changed owners and our new PD put on Hannity and O'Reilley.  He was all happy about it because he's a big right-winger, but I told him, "We've been through this before, before you got here, and it didn't work out."  He got all ticked off at me and blazed stubbornly along.  They held on to Hannity for a couple of years, despite the fact that the station wasn't registering in the Arbitron books at all (it, too, was a low-powered station, which is probably more to blame for the low ratings than for Hannity or O'Reilley's programming.  I mean, I hate Hannity's guts and I still listened to the show on the way home every day, just for recon purposes. :) )  Anyway, they're now airing sports talk radio instead, which is what I told the guy to go with in the first place - it gets more listeners than politics, and sponsors aren't afraid of it.  I don't know if the station's showing up in the ratings book now or not, though - the format change hasn't been in effect long enough.

Air America has a tough road to take to try to beat Limbaugh overall, though, because nearly all radio stations are owned by right-wing companies... so Air America is having to try to court the few remaining mom-and-pop stations left.  Radio's a dying business, unfortunately...

Cheers,

Zwolf
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Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
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#48 tennyson

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 03:44 PM

Non military solutions are still possible with both Iran and North Korea Robin although I think that wasn't what G was refering to. As for military issues, I've described before in great detail why a conflict with North Korea would not require a draft and a quick search should lead you to those posts or I could repost it for you.
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#49 G1223

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 04:49 PM

Ok the thread has taken a lot of turns.

Now as to why women are not going to face an immedate draft. Is First the system has not been set up to get women registered. Second we have not started a new draft. Now as to women in combat I am not passing judgement. I am saying that if the servies set a minimum physical requirement and left it at them. Not raising nor lowering it simply the benchmark above this mark passes below this mark fails.  I think it is verry fair.

I also raised the issue of the ground servcies making basic proficency with a rifle required of all people in uniform. To me that makes sense. sometimes the enemy gets behind our lines and we need to make sure our people can defend themselves properly.

I would add maybe pistol training could be useful for the other services. As situations can happen in port or at sea.
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#50 Anastashia

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:00 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 5 2005, 03:12 PM, said:

Well perhaps the numbers wouldn't be so bad if the Administration actually STOOD behind it's soldiers....rather then charging them for their own hospital food when they get injured, throwing them to the media everytime a reporter spins a story, arresting and charging them with crimes when they are merely following orders...that sort of thing is definately going to have an impact on recruiting. I know there would be no way in hell I would join the army...I would expect the Government I'm protecting to watch my back also...which, given this administration, is apparently asking too much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


LotS, I suspect the reason that service members are being charged for hospital food is because they are under temporary duty orders to the hospial. With TD orders you get per diem which is designed to pay for food and lodging costs. So it's a paper work drill (the orders, no one can be anywhere without written orders)and an administrative budgetary issue (assigning cost to the right budget line item) not an additional cost to them.
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#51 eloisel

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:03 PM

Call Me Robin said:

Howard Dean himself has said that we can't pull out now. We broke it, we bought it.
If we buy it, then it is ours.

Seriously, the reason for the war was to go in and get the WMDs.  No WMDS, so in effect the mission is accomplished.  Why should we have to fix anything, save them, rebuild or anything else?

#52 Call Me Robin

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 08:39 PM

eloisel, on Jun 7 2005, 01:03 AM, said:

Call Me Robin said:

Howard Dean himself has said that we can't pull out now. We broke it, we bought it.
If we buy it, then it is ours.

Seriously, the reason for the war was to go in and get the WMDs.  No WMDS, so in effect the mission is accomplished.  Why should we have to fix anything, save them, rebuild or anything else?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well, as far as WMDs go, the administration has egg on its face.  Since the US overthrew Saddam, it's the US's job to clean up the mess, with the aid of whoever's still in our coalition.
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#53 tennyson

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 09:17 PM

Which would still be over thirty nations.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

— Londo, "Ceremonies of Light and Dark" Babylon-5


#54 Call Me Robin

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 09:53 PM

tennyson, on Jun 7 2005, 02:17 AM, said:

Which would still be over thirty nations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


We're still doing most of the legwork.
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#55 eloisel

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:07 PM

Seriously - Why should we clean up the mess?  Under what Law?

#56 Gefiltefishmon

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:10 PM

eloisel, on Jun 5 2005, 07:39 PM, said:

All I know for sure is if the military strategists put me in charge of the war during my perimenopausal/PMSing days, the insurgency problem would be taken care of.  Of course, humans as a species would be extinct as a result of the gaping hole where the middle east once was knocking the planet off its axis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


:howling:  :howling:  :howling:  :howling:  :howling:  :howling:

ROTFLMAO!!!
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#57 tennyson

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:18 PM

[QUOTE]We're still doing most of the legwork.[QUOTE]

I never said we weren't. It was the same way back in 1991.
"Only an idiot would fight a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the Kingdom of Idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts."

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#58 eloisel

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 10:38 PM

Gefiltefishmon, on Jun 7 2005, 03:10 AM, said:

eloisel, on Jun 5 2005, 07:39 PM, said:

All I know for sure is if the military strategists put me in charge of the war during my perimenopausal/PMSing days, the insurgency problem would be taken care of.  Of course, humans as a species would be extinct as a result of the gaping hole where the middle east once was knocking the planet off its axis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


:howling:  :howling:  :howling:  :howling:  :howling:  :howling:

ROTFLMAO!!!

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[off topic]
Because you appreciate my odd sense of humor ...

Years and years ago when I was quite wild, I had an even wilder friend.  He would come to parties at my house, get drunk and get naked.  When sober, I would tell him of his antics and he would not believe me, nor any other witness.  So, the next time he came to a party, got drunk and then naked, I took pictures.  I bought a copy of the Rubai'yat of Omar Khayyam by Kahlil Gibran and put the picture in between the pages next to this verse:

Indeed, indeed, Repentance oft before
I swore---but was I sober when I swore?
And then and then came Spring, and Rose-in-hand
My thread-bare Penitence apieces tore.


[back on topic]

#59 Gefiltefishmon

Gefiltefishmon

    Oolong Caluphids Private Secretary

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:13 PM

eloisel, on Jun 6 2005, 10:07 PM, said:

Seriously - Why should we clean up the mess?  Under what Law?

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No real law that I know of except the one my mother taught me at the end of a wooden spoon; 'You break it, you buy it" is as apt a description as any.

I mean we FLATTENED Germany during WWII and we rebuilt that - I think the Administration thought that Iraq would be a lot more like Post WWII Germany than it has demonstrated thus far and, honestly, I think that has come as a great surprise to the Bush Administration.

The down side of this is, instead of saying, publicly "Whoa, this has turned out to be a LOT more difficult than we thought it would be, we need to bring in more troops and REALLY squash the insurgents and get Iraq on it's feet" the administration is playing "Elephant-in-the-living-room" and saying, in effect; "Everything is fine, nothing to see here folks, move along...." which frankly isn't helping the Iraqi's nor the US soldiers in-country.
"To know that you do not know is the best. To act from the pretense that you know when you do not know is a disease" - Lao Tzu

"From All, One; and From One, All" - Heraclitus

"Let me be clear: however the world's goblet turns there will always be those drunk on the wine of the Self" - Ghalib

"A 'politically savvy challenge to evolution' is as self-evidently ridiculous as an agriculturally savvy challenge to euclidean geometry would be." - Charles Pierce

#60 eloisel

eloisel

    Non-sequitur

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Posted 06 June 2005 - 11:29 PM

Considering the mess Iraq was in, the only thing that will save them financially in the end is this war, and probably more war after that.  In 2003, Iraq's debts amounted to around 15 times its annual GDP.  $127 billion in loans, including $47 billion in accrued interest; $199 billion in reparations and $57 billion in contractual obligations.  $37 billion was in loans from the Gulf States ($17 billion from Kuwait alone) for support during the 1980-88 war with Iran. France was owed $4 billion, much of it to pay for F1 fighters and Exocet air-to-surface missiles, and $9 billion was owed to Russia for purchases of MIG fighters and helicopters.

I've been looking for information on "war reparations." So far all I'm turning up is the losing side pays - regardless of who was the aggressor or any justification for the aggression.  Interesting to note the huge amount Iraq owed in war reparations to Kuwait, in addition to the debt it owed for Kuwait's support in the Iran war.  There is some thought that Germany's economic woes exacerbated by war reparations from WWI gave rise to the Nazi's and Hitler.  How ever will Iraq come out from underneath all its debt?



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