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Dean does it again

DNC Howard Dean Criticism Democrats Party Chairman

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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:23 AM

Here's the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8142785/

Quote

WASHINGTON - Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday defended his recent harsh criticism of Republicans, including his observation that they are “pretty much a white, Christian party.”

Talk about your over generalizations. And THIS is the person the DNC chose to lead their party? OMG....Looks like I won't de a dem or a republican come next election.

Quote

Dean noted that he, too, is a white Christian. But he said the GOP is too narrow in its scope and the Democratic Party is far more diverse.

So basically, according to Howard Duck...ooops, meant Dean, all White Christian people, with narrow minded views are GOP members. Hmmm. Who defines what's narrow minded and what isn't? Certainly hope it isn't Dean.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#2 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:27 AM

In another interview...

Quote

The one-time presidential candidate also said that House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, who has not been accused of any crime, ought to go back to Houston where he can serve his jail sentence.

OMG...I'm so glad this guy didn't get elected. It scary enough that he was even considered for the job of President. If he's expecting Delay to serve a jail sentence, without being accused of a crime, let alone convicted, can you imagine how he'd handle the illegal combatants being detained???
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#3 Zwolf

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:39 AM

I'm not a Dean fan.   I was really happy when he didn't get through the primaries, because, other than Kucinich (a completely unrealistic drip) and Sharpton (a very funny guy, but nuts), he was 'bout my last choice.   At first I didn't mind it so much that he was picked as DNC chairman, because the guy was good at fund-raising and that's the main thing the chairman's responsible for, but so far he hasn't been doing such a great job at that anymore, and a lot of the stuff he says is absolutely moronic.   Please don't judge all Dems by this guy - plenty of us don't like him, either.

Cheers,

Zwolf
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Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
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#4 Ogami

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:40 AM

From the opening article:

Quote

WASHINGTON - Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday defended his recent harsh criticism of Republicans, including his observation that they are “pretty much a white, Christian party.”

Yeah, and 40% of Hispanic voters voted for Bush this time around. And how many Christians vote Democrat? And women?

I want the Democrats to keep Howard Dean on as chairman. Keep repeating the mindless talking points from the DNC surrogate groups, keep losing elections like you absolutely deserve.

-Ogami

#5 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 11:56 AM

Zwolf666, on Jun 8 2005, 11:39 AM, said:

  Please don't judge all Dems by this guy - plenty of us don't like him, either.

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'm trying not to...but the mere fact that Dean has made these idiotic statements, and that the Dems have kept him in this position tells me that, for the most part, the dems are agreeing with him. Yes, a few are trying to distance themselves...but if the dems didn't agree with what Dean was saying, why is he still the DNC chairman.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#6 Enkanowen

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 12:06 PM

What the US needs is a black female president. Or either really. For a country with so much diversity, it is run by the WASP guys, whether they are Republican or Democratic. Howard Dean recognizes this fact, but in good old mudslinging fashion he soley projects it onto 'the opponent', when the problem encompasses the entire political system.

#7 Ogami

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 12:08 PM

http://www.rice2008.com/

#8 Spectacles

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 12:10 PM

Dean definitely has a way of stepping in doo-doo.

He's going to be a sideshow thanks to his tactlessness. I wish the Democrats would ditch him as party leader.


That said, a recent poll shows that Bush's support is strongest among white, Southern evangelicals--and that's no accident. Of course, it's costing him support elsewhere, as most Americans really do believe that faith is a private matter and the country ought to be run in such a way as to respect that longstanding American value.

http://abcnews.go.co...d=826934&page=1

Quote

Sixty percent of Southerners approve of Bush's work, compared with 32 percent in the Northeast, and 44 percent in the Midwest and West alike.

Quote

Another result describes the increasing narrowness of Bush's support. The only population groups in which majorities say he's concentrating on issues that are important to them personally are Republicans, evangelical white Protestants, conservatives and better-off Americans, those with household incomes of $75,000 a year or more.

So, while Dean may be on to something, it was still not a very smart thing to say--especially the way he said it. Unfortunately, he seems to have a knack for that.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#9 Enkanowen

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 12:15 PM

Ogami, on Jun 8 2005, 01:08 PM, said:


Very good. Mrs Clinton is running as well? Should it be the year of the women? I would love to see that.

Quote

So, while Dean may be on to something, it was still not a very smart thing to say--especially the way he said it. Unfortunately, he seems to have a knack for that.

Yes, a political leader should have a lot of diplomacy. Dean seems to lack that... so does Bush.

Edited by Enkanowen, 08 June 2005 - 12:18 PM.


#10 G1223

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:17 PM

Spectacles, on Jun 8 2005, 05:10 PM, said:

Dean definitely has a way of stepping in doo-doo.

He's going to be a sideshow thanks to his tactlessness. I wish the Democrats would ditch him as party leader.


That said, a recent poll shows that Bush's support is strongest among white, Southern evangelicals--and that's no accident. Of course, it's costing him support elsewhere, as most Americans really do believe that faith is a private matter and the country ought to be run in such a way as to respect that longstanding American value.

http://abcnews.go.co...d=826934&page=1

Quote

Sixty percent of Southerners approve of Bush's work, compared with 32 percent in the Northeast, and 44 percent in the Midwest and West alike.

Quote

Another result describes the increasing narrowness of Bush's support. The only population groups in which majorities say he's concentrating on issues that are important to them personally are Republicans, evangelical white Protestants, conservatives and better-off Americans, those with household incomes of $75,000 a year or more.

So, while Dean may be on to something, it was still not a very smart thing to say--especially the way he said it. Unfortunately, he seems to have a knack for that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



But he represents the values that Move on .og expresses.  Dean is why a lot of americans look at the democrats as being a LOT off center. They see him put into a position of power with in the DNC,and they will suspect the parties motives in the 06 mid terms,and if he keeps this up he will damage the party so badly they will not gain seats at all in congress even in 2008.

Now while I can deal with keeping the demoacrats from having control in congress. (40yrs was too long a run) I think making the canidates for federal office having to distance themselves so sa to have a chance to run is stupid.

Yes Dean has to go.
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#11 Call Me Robin

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:27 PM

Ogami, on Jun 8 2005, 04:40 PM, said:

From the opening article:

Quote

WASHINGTON - Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean on Wednesday defended his recent harsh criticism of Republicans, including his observation that they are “pretty much a white, Christian party.”

Yeah, and 40% of Hispanic voters voted for Bush this time around. And how many Christians vote Democrat? And women?

I often suspect that Dean is trying to get a rise out of right-wingers, in much the same way that right-wing politicians and pundits have done with liberals in the past.

Relax, Ogami.  Liberals have gotten used to these kinds of generalizations.  You will too.   At least he hasn't accused you of treason.  :)

Quote

I want the Democrats to keep Howard Dean on as chairman. Keep repeating the mindless talking points from the DNC surrogate groups, keep losing elections like you absolutely deserve.

-Ogami

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


With this kind of pathological hatred from the right wing, I suspect the Republicans are going to start to implode.  Don't right-wingers have anything to offer other than spite and anger?  No wonder Bush and Congress have such poor approval ratings.

Newt Gingrich and his gang spouted all kinds of angry, mean-spirited crap for years and years.  So why is everyone so thin-skinned now?

Actually, Dean is supposed to be a superb organizer with a 50-state plan for rebuilding the party at the ground level.  Local Democratic party leaders are now surprised that he's asking them for their ideas.  I'm betting that they're willing to overlook Dean's more outlandish comments in exchange for his organizational skills.  Just as prominent Republicans overlooked the antics of Gingrich, Dole, Bob Barr, and, more recently, Tom Delay.

Quote

But he represents the values that Move on .og expresses. Dean is why a lot of americans look at the democrats as being a LOT off center.

Think that's bad?  A recent Washington Post poll indicates that most Americans don't think Bush is addressing concerns...i.e., that he's way off-center.  And unlike Dean, he is not running the party.

Here's an interesting take on things, titled "Dean is Crazy Like a Fox"

Edited by Call Me Robin, 08 June 2005 - 01:31 PM.

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--Aristotle

The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
--Eric Hoffer

#12 G1223

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:35 PM

The patholgical hatred I have seen has been from Democrats. Now I know this does not represent all democrats but I see more than a few of them looking for a ship to jump on to. They themselves roll their eyesand wonder when is the party going to spot being a mouthpiece for fringe groups and going to get back to basic issues.

Evan Byah said as much in 2003 to try and give a wake up call to the party. So till the far left shuts up then the democratic party is going to keep going down.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#13 Banapis

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:44 PM

*dusts off the ol' stovepipe moderator hat*

Hi guys, let's try to avoid making generalizations about "right-wingers" and "left-wingers" and "Democrats" and "Republicans" in this thread.  I know it's easy to fall into that trap... especially when the topic of the thread is someone's comment about what the right-wing party in American politics allegedly is.

Banapis

#14 Call Me Robin

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:45 PM

G1223, on Jun 8 2005, 06:35 PM, said:

The patholgical hatred I have seen has been from Democrats. Now I know this does not represent all democrats but I see more than a few of them looking for a ship to jump on to. They themselves roll their eyesand wonder when is the party going to spot being a mouthpiece for fringe groups and going to get back to basic issues.

This is not true of any Democrat or any liberal I know.  Their wish is this: that the Democrats stand up and tell it like it is; that the Democrats answer the mean-spiritedness and anger of right-wing pundits; that Democrats develop a coherent policy; and that the Democrats respond to such issues as healthcare reform and jobs.  

Bayh is a member of the DLC, the "if you can't beat the GOP, join 'em" wing of the party.  I know that the right-wing media likes to tell people that the Demcoratic Party is too far left, but in fact, the opposite is true.  The Democrats have pursued a centrist course since the 1990s, and the GOP responded by moving further and further right.  Meanwhile, the Democrats weren't winning elections, because they didn't establish an identity separate from the GOP.  

I know that the right-wing media likes to believe that the Democrats would win elections if they smiled, nodded, and rubber-stamped everything.  I know they want liberals to be pushovers a la Alan Colmes.  But that's not how a functioning democracy works, and it's not healthy for this country.

As a poster to Daily Kos puts it:

Quote

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine telling me  I am not part of the mainstream because I am a Democrat.

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine telling me I am a terrorist

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine telling me I am not a Christian because I believe the poor need help

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine saying that judges should obey the will of the people when the will of the people are racist, homophobic closeted homosexuals

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine telling me Democrats need to be more like Republicans

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine using the word liberal in the pejorative

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine dominating the radio and news nedia

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine telling me lying about adultery is bad but lying about going to war is OK.

I am sick and tired of the Right Wing Noise Machine villifying Democrats but acting like a bunch of babies when we villify them.

I feel that the Right Wing Noise Machine just doesn't "get it."  Liberals, Alan Colmes notwithstanding, don't want to be bullied and shoved around.  They don't want to be told "Shut up and toe the line."
Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.
--Aristotle

The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
--Eric Hoffer

#15 Call Me Robin

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 01:47 PM

PS: if you don't like what Dean is saying, then surely you must also have a problem with the Limbaughs, Hannitys, Coulters, and Savages, who proclaim that liberalism is some sort of social disease.  And surely you must cringe at the extreme, even eliminationist rhetoric over at sites like Little Green Footballs.  

Fair is fair, after all.
Of all the varieties of virtues, liberalism is the most beloved.
--Aristotle

The fanatic is not really a stickler to principle. He embraces a cause not primarily because of its justness or holiness but because of his desperate need for something to hold onto.
--Eric Hoffer

#16 emsparks

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 02:04 PM

WELL: ALL RIGHTY THEN….

Patholgical hatred?

You know the Republicans actually think it makes them look good in the eyes of American public when a Democrat calls then a name. AND GM sends 23,000 jobs to their new 6 billion-dollar plant in China.

I hope you enjoy learning a Communist national anthem.

Looks around the American people know full well who was the gatekeepers when their, and their families jobs when over seas.
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#17 Gabrielles Army

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 02:05 PM

G1223, on Jun 8 2005, 11:35 AM, said:

The patholgical hatred I have seen has been from Democrats.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I would answer that with two words. The Clintons. I can`t  remember ever seeing the kind of pathological obsessive hatred directed at someone like I saw in the years he was president. Even now those mouthpieces representing the right like Rush, Coulter, and others, literally start foaming at the mouth at the mention of Bill or Hiliary

#18 Zwolf

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:08 PM

Quote

The patholgical hatred I have seen has been from Democrats.

I do know for a fact that Democrats have said some hateful things.  Sure.  But in the interest of fairness, balance, and enlightment, let me show you a few quotes from Republicansthat you've apparently missed, since the hate you've seen has been only from Dems.   There are many at that link, but here are a few choice ones.

"I tell people don't kill all the liberals. Leave enough so we can have two on every campus - living fossils - so we will never forget what these people stood for."
- Rush Limbaugh, Denver Post, 12-29-95

"Get rid of the guy. Impeach him, censure him, assassinate him."
   - Rep. James Hansen (R-UT), talking about President Clinton, as reported by journalist Steve Miner of KSUB radio who overheard his conversation, 11-01-98

   "We're going to keep building the party until we're hunting Democrats with dogs."
- Senator Phil Gramm (R-TX), Mother Jones, 08-95

   "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building."
- Ann Coulter, New York Observer, 08-26-02

"Chelsea is a Clinton. She bears the taint; and though not prosecutable in law, in custom and nature the taint cannot be ignored. All the great despotisms of the past - I'm not arguing for despotism as a principle, but they sure knew how to deal with potential trouble - recognized that the families of objectionable citizens were a continuing threat. In Stalin's penal code it was a crime to be the wife or child of an 'enemy of the people.' The Nazis used the same principle, which they called Sippenhaft, 'clan liability.' In Imperial China, enemies of the state were punished 'to the ninth degree': that is, everyone in the offender's own generation would be killed and everyone related via four generations up, to the great-great-grandparents, and four generations down, to the great-great-grandchildren, would also be killed."
- John Derbyshire, National Review, 02-15-01

  "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors."
- Ann Coulter, at the Conservative Political Action Conference, 02-26-02


These statements should not be taken as being representative of all Republicans any more than stupid statements made by Dems should be taken as representative, either.    Nobody's got their hands clean.  

That said, I still cannot fathom why Ann Coulter hasn't been condemned by conservatives across the board for that statement that her "only regret" with a bombing that killed a lot of innocent people, including children in a daycare center, is that it didn't happen to "liberals" instead.   Ted Rall had to do a lot less than that to get me against him.   I used to like Rall's cartoons, but now I can't stand the s.o.b. because he insulted Pat Tillman's sacrifice, and every Democrat I know put Rall on their sh*t-list for that one.  Why Ann Coulter still has an audience at all, I have no idea.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#19 Enkanowen

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:41 PM

wow i leave for a few hours and the thread explodes. Is it me or do all discussions start out as such and then turn into "them reps" and "them libs". I think there needs to be respect. It can start by avoiding the usage of abbreviations. Democrats, Republicans, Liberals.

#20 emsparks

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Posted 08 June 2005 - 03:59 PM

25,000 more Americans lost their jobs today and all we can talk about is stupid bipartisan political backbiting.

Edited by emsparks, 08 June 2005 - 04:01 PM.

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