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Dean does it again

DNC Howard Dean Criticism Democrats Party Chairman

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#81 G1223

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 08:47 PM

Post 4.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

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#82 G1223

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 08:48 PM

Post 5.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#83 G1223

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 08:50 PM

Post 6.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#84 Zwolf

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 08:53 PM

Now, see, G, that is what I think constitutes spamming.  If what I was doing can get looked at as spamming, putting up tons of empty posts would really be it.  I'm not trying to tell you what to do, but, just some advice... I don't think it's a good idea, and I don't think it'll work well for you.  Do what you think's best, but... just giving ya my opinion.

Cheers,

Zwolf
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I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
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But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
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#85 G1223

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 08:54 PM

Oh ok.


I like wiping after taking a dump with my left hand.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#86 Josh

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 08:55 PM

Knock it off, G.

If I put the people who annoy me in this forum on ignore, about 80% of the posts would be blocked. This place is that bad right now.

Edited by Josh, 10 June 2005 - 08:57 PM.

"THE UNICORNS ARE NOT TO BE TRIFLED WITH!" - John Burke.

#87 G1223

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 08:56 PM

I like Charmin double roll.  The one in the red packageing over the older blue packaging.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#88 G1223

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 09:01 PM

Now as to alternate  toilet papers. We have Cottonelle. That has nice strength to it.


But then again the effect might have desired effect of ending this thread.

Edited by G1223, 10 June 2005 - 09:21 PM.

If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#89 eloisel

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 09:54 PM

waterpanther, on Jun 11 2005, 01:28 AM, said:

PS-- Is it of any concern to anyone whatsoever that what Dean said is actually true?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On what information do you base your statement that Dean's statement that Republicans are pretty much white and Christian is true?

Considering that Latinos have a strong personal commitment to God and family, which is not supported by the current Democratic platform, is it surprising that a large number of Latinos are now voting Republican?

Considering that African-Americans and single moms have or can become members of the investor class, is it surprising that yet two more groups of people who were considered a traditional Democratic demographic are now voting Republican?

If Dean's statement is true, then that means non-Republicans are pretty much non-white and non-Christian.  Is that the truth?

I also challenge Dean's statement that Republicans typically have not done an honest day's work in their lives.  It also has no basis in fact.

#90 G1223

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:12 PM

Now Eloisel why respond to him? He is  acting in his bigoted manner towards Republicans.  It is better to leave him be.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.

#91 waterpanther

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:22 PM

There's a difference between voting for a party's ticket and being a member of the party.  Just personally, if voting for party's candidate made one a member thereof, I'd have to list myself as a Democrat-Green-Libertarian-Republican.  

I suspect that most Hispanics who voted for Bush did so because they're religious and anti-abortion, and/or because they perceive Bush as somehow more "patriotic" than Kerry, given that his Iraq war has cast him in the role of CinC.  Ditto African-American voters, many of whom are evangelicals.

Now:  how many Republican members of Congress are African-American?  How many delegates to the Republican convention were African-American?  How many Republican governors are African-American?  How many African Americans and Hispanics are actually members of the party?  How about Native Americans?  Because that's what Dean was talking about, not about how many voted for Bush.

As for being Christian--it's in the Texas Republican platform that "the United States is a Christian nation."  Certainly the Republicans themselves seem to think they're Christian.  If you want to dispute that, you can argue the point with them.

Quote

If Dean's statement is true, then that means non-Republicans are pretty much non-white and non-Christian. Is that the truth?

Actually, it doesn't mean that.  Why should it?  

Quote

I also challenge Dean's statement that Republicans typically have not done an honest day's work in their lives. It also has no basis in fact.

If he'd actually said that, I'd challenge it, too.  What he said is that some Republicans haven't done an honest day's work in their lives.  I suspect he was referring to GeeDubya, whose sole experience before moving into the Governor's mansion was running several oil exploration companies into the ground and who has brought that experience to bear in his political career, with unfortunate results.
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#92 Delvo

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 10:53 PM

Cardie, on Jun 10 2005, 08:12 PM, said:

4. The mods repeatedly suspend them because their opponents have goaded them into breaking the guidelines.  Neither side gets covered with glory in that one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as the people doing the goading are concerned, they do. That's a win to them. And it's one that is aided as a matter of official forum policy at a forum where goading doesn't get bans and responding to the goading does. It's like the second kid, the one who's hitting back to defend against an attack, getting punished but the kid who started it by attacking being congratulated for so cleverly setting that up.

Zwolf666, on Jun 10 2005, 08:44 PM, said:

I really did think that Robin's tactic was a good one - it made the point without being nasty or cruel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Close, but not quite. This recent batch of it might have been set off by me, actually, since it happened soon after I posted once in some thread about liking dandelions, and later in the same thread about liking rain. But there are three differences in how and why it was done in that case and in the more recent cases. One is the amount; too high of a volume and it goes past what it started out as and becomes something else, something more direct and personal and condescending, less a matter of reason and more a matter of force. (Edited to add a comparison: it's really the same thing as when Ogami would directly quote somebody and then type no more response himself than "chuckle". And that kind of dismissiveness is directly against a written guideline against responding dismissively instead of substantively.) The second is the presence of quotes, making the absurdly off-topic stuff a direct response to an individual, instead of one preceded by no quotes at all so that it's a general reaction to the nature of the thread. And the third is that this time, the group of people doing it was a group that apparently had already openly admitted before that the entire reason they ever came to Ex Isle and the entire reason they ever post here at all is simply to troll against conservatives (starting with Ogami) to try to get ban-earning reactions from them.

Edited by Delvo, 10 June 2005 - 11:10 PM.


#93 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 11:05 PM

Moderator's Helmet On! G knock it off now.  We gave you your final warning about your behavior and you have decided to ignore that warning.  You can expect further communication from the staff. Please don't make this worse for yourself.Moderator's Helmet Off!

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 10 June 2005 - 11:06 PM.

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#94 waterpanther

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 11:10 PM

Quote

And the third is that this time, the group of people doing it was a group that apparently had already openly admitted before that the entire reason they ever came to Ex Isle and the entire reason they ever post here at all is simply to troll against conservatives (starting with Ogami) to try to get ban-earning reactions from them.

Please post quotes of said " open admission" by said "group of people."
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#95 MuseZack

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 11:13 PM

Whew!  Glad I'm staying out of this one, for the most part.  


Oh yeah, and Dean's statement was unwise, because hey, shouldn't the Democrats be trying to win white Christians back?  

But no one is seriously contesting that the vast bulk of the Republican party's leadership and membership are actually white Christians, are they?  Especially since the "pretty much" was a modifier that meant he wasn't actually saying "all"?  

Has anyone actually crunched the numbers on this?  I did one lazy google but didn't come up with anything.
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We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
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#96 eloisel

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 11:18 PM

waterpanther, on Jun 11 2005, 03:22 AM, said:

There's a difference between voting for a party's ticket and being a member of the party.  Just personally, if voting for party's candidate made one a member thereof, I'd have to list myself as a Democrat-Green-Libertarian-Republican. 

I suspect that most Hispanics who voted for Bush did so because they're religious and anti-abortion, and/or because they perceive Bush as somehow more "patriotic" than Kerry, given that his Iraq war has cast him in the role of CinC.  Ditto African-American voters, many of whom are evangelicals.

Now:  how many Republican members of Congress are African-American?  How many delegates to the Republican convention were African-American?  How many Republican governors are African-American?  How many African Americans and Hispanics are actually members of the party?  How about Native Americans?  Because that's what Dean was talking about, not about how many voted for Bush.

As for being Christian--it's in the Texas Republican platform that "the United States is a Christian nation."  Certainly the Republicans themselves seem to think they're Christian.  If you want to dispute that, you can argue the point with them.
Good point.  My own personal voting record sounds similar to yours.  However, considering I voted for some of the Republicans currently in power because of my agreement on some key issues, I claim affiliation with the party.  I did get an invitation to Dean's upcoming event in Dallas on June 17th.  Don't know why.  I wouldn't go.  Just like I didn't throw a party when Bush asked me to.  Really, by email no less.  I'm an engraved formal request kind of gal.

Quote

Mine:  If Dean's statement is true, then that means non-Republicans are pretty much non-white and non-Christian. Is that the truth?

WP's: Actually, it doesn't mean that.  Why should it?
If the White Christians are pretty much in the Republican party, then who is left for the Democratic, Liberal, Socialist, Communist, Green, etc parties?  

Quote

Mine:  I also challenge Dean's statement that Republicans typically have not done an honest day's work in their lives. It also has no basis in fact.

WP's:  If he'd actually said that, I'd challenge it, too.  What he said is that some Republicans haven't done an honest day's work in their lives.  I suspect he was referring to GeeDubya, whose sole experience before moving into the Governor's mansion was running several oil exploration companies into the ground and who has brought that experience to bear in his political career, with unfortunate results.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Dean Defending Comments About Republicans

Quote

While discussing the hardship of working all day and then standing in line for eight hours to vote, Dean had said, "Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives."
[emphasis mine]
Well, my daughter and I stood in line several hours to vote.  I'm quite sure not everyone or even most of the people that stood in line along with us were voting Republican.

#97 waterpanther

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 11:18 PM

CNN apparently--and I'm saying "apparently" because I don't have a link and didn't see or hear it myself--said that Republicans are 82% white Christian, with Dems coming in at 57% white Christian.  That seems about right to me, but again, it's hearsay at this point.
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#98 waterpanther

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 11:26 PM

Quote

If the White Christians are pretty much in the Republican party, then who is left for the Democratic, Liberal, Socialist, Communist, Green, etc parties?

Dean did not say that most white Christians are Republicans.  He said most Republicans are white Christians.  There's a substantial difference.  Just as there's a difference, say, between saying most hairdressers are women and saying that most women are hairdressers.

Quote

"Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives." 

As far as I can see, this is likely to be true.  Note that "a lot" does not mean "all" or even "a majority."  By the time we add up the Bush brothers, Ken Lay and his bunch, the professional bloviators such as Rush and Coulter and their ilk, the lobbyists such as Abramoff--I think we could honestly arrive at "a lot."
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#99 Cardie

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Posted 10 June 2005 - 11:37 PM

eloisel said:

If the White Christians are pretty much in the Republican party, then who is left for the Democratic, Liberal, Socialist, Communist, Green, etc parties?

What he said was that most Republicans were white Christians, not that all--or even most--white Christians were Republicans. The converse of a true statement is not necessarily a true statement too.

These are totally made-up figures, but if, say, there are 75 million registered Republicans and 70 million of them are white Christians, but the total number of white Christian registered voters is 120 million, then it would leave 50 million to be Democrats.

I think Dean is not being very wise to say these things and alienate scads of voters, but we should at least criticize him for what he's actually said, which is quite blameworthy enough.

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#100 D'Monix

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Posted 11 June 2005 - 12:02 AM

Josh, on Jun 11 2005, 01:55 AM, said:

Knock it off, G.

If I put the people who annoy me in this forum on ignore, about 80% of the posts would be blocked. This place is that bad right now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


There are times, though Josh, that I'm glad all I see of G's (and other's) continued posts is a sea of solid gray and the little magic words "you are ingoring this user."

kinda soothing.

:D



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