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Schiavo Autopsy Vindicates Husband

Top News 2005 Teri Schiavo

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#1 BklnScott

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 10:52 AM

Paging Dr. Frist...  

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From the NY Times:

June 15, 2005
Schiavo's Brain Was Severely Deteriorated, Autopsy Says
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
LARGO, Fla. (AP) -- Terri Schiavo did not suffer any trauma prior to her 1990 collapse and her brain was about half of normal size when she died, according to results released Wednesday of an autopsy conducted on the severely brain-damaged woman.

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin concluded that there was no evidence of strangulation or other trauma leading to her collapse. He also said she did not appear to have suffered a heart attack and there was no evidence that she was given harmful drugs or other substances prior to her death.

Vindicating the poor husband, at last.  Is it naive to hope those who so publicly smeared him will go to equal lengths now to take it back?  *Obviously*.  

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Autopsy results on the 41-year-old brain damaged woman were made public Wednesday, more than two months after Schiavo's death ended an internationally watched right-to-die battle that engulfed the courts, Congress and the White House and divided the country.

She died from dehydration, he said.

He said she would not have been able to eat or drink if she had been given food by mouth as her parents' requested.

And as various whack-jobs, including nurses-aids, claimed they did on a regular basis.  But, hey! -- Remember: she spoke to Randall Terry!
  

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"Removal of her feeding tube would have resulted in her death whether she was fed or hydrated by mouth or not," Thogmartin told reporters.

Thogmartin said that Schiavo's brain was about half of its expected size when she died March 31 in a Pinellas Park hospice, 13 days after her feeding tube was removed.

"The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain. ... This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons."

So... these results would appear to vindicate the side of science & reason and completely condemn the side of ignorants in the grip of religious hysteria.  What a surprise!   :whistle:

EDITED by Nick to fix the link that was stretching the page.  Didn't think you'd mind.

Edited by Nick, 15 June 2005 - 11:05 AM.

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There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#2 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 10:54 AM

_ph, on Jun 15 2005, 10:52 AM, said:

So... these results would appear to vindicate the side of science & reason and completely condemn the side of ignorants in the grip of religious hysteria.  What a surprise!   :whistle:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Doesn't surprise me in the least. It also isn't going to change these religious nut jobs minds....or the parent's mind. They are going to insist that these professional medical examiners are wrong. Talk about denial.
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#3 QueenTiye

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 11:01 AM

_ph, on Jun 15 2005, 11:52 AM, said:


Can you put url tags around the link?  For some reason, the board isn't doing this automatically anymore. :(  I did it here and you see that it shrinks the link... :)

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#4 Zwolf

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 11:09 AM

Can we re-summon those jugglers and the Statue of Liberty lady, etc., to help spread the truth about this?   I won't hold my breath.

Frist won't apologize, I'm sure.  This is a guy who wouldn't even tell the truth that AIDs can't be transmitted through tears or sweat, so facts aren't likely to budge him on the Schiavo case, either.   It's all political capital to him, nothing more, nothing less.

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#5 Cheile

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 11:10 AM

thank God the truth is finally proven!!  now mommy and daddy will have to eat their whining words. :smirk:

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#6 BklnScott

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 11:21 AM

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Frist won't apologize, I'm sure. This is a guy who wouldn't even tell the truth that AIDs can't be transmitted through tears or sweat,

Can I just say how much that pissed me off?  I don't watch Stephanopoulos regularly, but I happened to be watching that Sunday, and  :eek4: -- That dirty, lying, hate-mongering sc**bag!  ARRGH!!!    

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so facts aren't likely to budge him on the Schiavo case, either.

I'd like to see him squirm for the cameras, tho.  DeLay and Bush, too--both Bushes, in fact.  

Not to mention the conspiracy theorists--and there were a few hereabouts, as well.  I'm dying to see how they incorporate this turn of events.  Does Michael have secret pull with the ME's office, as he did with the many judges?  Stay Tuned!   :rolleyes:

Edited by _ph, 15 June 2005 - 11:22 AM.

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#7 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 11:43 AM

What I found most interesting about the medical examiner's report...MSNBC aired the medical examiners saying that Terri was blind, according to the results of the autopsy. So that means that the video the parents shoved down our throat where Terri was suppose to be following a ballon...She never saw the ballon, so she couldn't have been following it. It was all just random movement. Not that these Whiny, self absorbed parents will ever believe the truth.
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#8 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 11:44 AM

LoTS:

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It also isn't going to change these religious nut jobs minds....or the parent's mind. They are going to insist that these professional medical examiners are wrong. Talk about denial.

Zwolf:

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Can we re-summon those jugglers and the Statue of Liberty lady, etc., to help spread the truth about this? I won't hold my breath.

What they said. :smirk:

The truth?! Hah!! These people have moved on, and could care less about the facts. All that matters is their agendas.

:sarcasm:
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#9 schoolpsycho

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 12:49 PM

Well, Terri's husband was right.

Terri's parents were wrong.

And there really was no hope.

It should've never gotten to this point.

If only her parents had listened to him, and to her.

Thing is, they wouldn't have, and neither would a lot of others.

We can debate(and have and will) this over and over again. But, most people who are like Terri was will never get better. And all the politicians who wanted to change things for their personal gain, and all the protesters who make spectacles of themselves just to say something as noble as "Keep Terri Alive", and all the talking TV idiots wanting face time, and Jeb and George Bush, who had no business sticking themselves in this, and all well-meaning, thoughtful people who sincerely wanted her to get better, won't change that.

There are miracles.

But more reality.

What pains me in all of this is that if I was like Terri was, if I wanted to die, instead of dragging it out when there was absolutely no hope, my wish may not be granted, thanks to people who think they are being kind.

Cruel is irony.

And so was what happened to Terri.

sp

Edited by schoolpsycho, 15 June 2005 - 12:50 PM.

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#10 Themis

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 01:44 PM

schoolpsycho, on Jun 15 2005, 05:49 PM, said:

snip...But, most people who are like Terri was will never get better. ...snip

What pains me in all of this is that if I was like Terri was, if I wanted to die, instead of dragging it out when there was absolutely no hope, my wish may not be granted, thanks to people who think they are being kind.

According to the autopsy, ALL people who are like Terri was will never get better.

As to  it happening to you - LIVING WILL - and power of attorney for health care if you are fortunate enough to have someone you trust to name to that position.

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#11 Ogami

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 01:49 PM

_Ph wrote:

So... these results would appear to vindicate the side of science & reason and completely condemn the side of ignorants in the grip of religious hysteria.

Why is it that the same people who were not concerned for the treatment of Terry Shiavo are so concerned for the treatment of Osama Bin Laden's bodyguards and the 20th hijacker over at Guantanimo Bay?

Something is very out of whack when more concern is shown for the comfort and well-being of murderous madmen (who want to murder as many Americans as they can) over an innocent women whose only crime was being helpless and in a coma.

-Ogami

#12 schoolpsycho

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 01:50 PM

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LIVING WILL - and power of attorney for health care if you are fortunate enough to have someone you trust to name to that position.


Both of which can be contested and ignored.

sp
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#13 Lin731

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 02:38 PM

Quote

_Ph wrote:

So... these results would appear to vindicate the side of science & reason and completely condemn the side of ignorants in the grip of religious hysteria.

I doubt you'll see any of them on here expressing any regret for slandering Mike or ignoring a ton of medical evidence that this autopsy pretty much just confirmed regarding Teri's condition prior to her death. likewise I don't think you'll see any regret expressed at swallowing all the BS reports of abuse her parent hurled into the mix once it became clear they weren't going to get their way. I do appreciate that many on here were simply concerned for Teri and hoping against hope that the nay sayers were correct about Teri being able to recover. I can respect that feeling while not sharing it.


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Why is it that the same people who were not concerned for the treatment of Terry Shiavo are so concerned for the treatment of Osama Bin Laden's bodyguards and the 20th hijacker over at Guantanimo Bay?

Why is it that you seem pathologically incapable of staying on topic? There's a thread dealing with Gitmo, several of them in fact, so why start derailing this thread?

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Something is very out of whack when more concern is shown for the comfort and well-being of murderous madmen (who want to murder as many Americans as they can) over an innocent women whose only crime was being helpless and in a coma.

-Ogami

Something is very out of whack when you come onto a Teri Shiavo thread and start tossing out Gitmo references that have nothing to do with the thread topic. How about showing a little "concern" for staying on topic?
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#14 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 04:41 PM

Lin731, on Jun 15 2005, 02:38 PM, said:

Quote

Why is it that the same people who were not concerned for the treatment of Terry Shiavo are so concerned for the treatment of Osama Bin Laden's bodyguards and the 20th hijacker over at Guantanimo Bay?

Why is it that you seem pathologically incapable of staying on topic? There's a thread dealing with Gitmo, several of them in fact, so why start derailing this thread?

Quote

Something is very out of whack when more concern is shown for the comfort and well-being of murderous madmen (who want to murder as many Americans as they can) over an innocent women whose only crime was being helpless and in a coma.

-Ogami

Something is very out of whack when you come onto a Teri Shiavo thread and start tossing out Gitmo references that have nothing to do with the thread topic. How about showing a little "concern" for staying on topic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Are you kidding Lin? What fun would that be for a person who lives to stir the sh!t?!

But of course if we saying something about it, we're bashing the "Neocons."  :glare:

Yes-let's stay on topic, even if some don't have the capacity to.

:sarcasm:
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#15 Vapor Trails

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 04:47 PM

schoolpsycho, on Jun 15 2005, 01:50 PM, said:

Quote

LIVING WILL - and power of attorney for health care if you are fortunate enough to have someone you trust to name to that position.


Both of which can be contested and ignored.

sp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Sp makes a good point-and this can be especially true if you're gay, have a lifemate whom you entrust that living will to, and if you have a family who's hell bent to destroy any sort of connection/contracts you have with your lover.

:pout:
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#16 Dev F

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 05:47 PM

Ogami, on Jun 15 2005, 01:49 PM, said:

Something is very out of whack when more concern is shown for the comfort and well-being of murderous madmen (who want to murder as many Americans as they can) over an innocent women whose only crime was being helpless and in a coma.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, for one thing, because as far as I know the Gitmo detainees have never been convicted of any crime, so it's quite possible that some of them are just as innocent as Terry Shiavo.

And for another, because as the autopsy confirmed, Terry Shiavo was already gone for all intents and purposes, and it's more important (and rational) to respect the lives of the living than the lives of the dead.

#17 eloisel

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 06:52 PM

It isn't quite that simple.  First, there was Michael Schiavo's own words that he needed the money to take care of his wife for an average lifespan.  Then, when he moved on to other women and the money got thin, then he suddenly remembered Terri had said she didn't want to live in a PVS.  

Her parents wanted her to live, they had hopes she'd recover, but they were no longer her legal guardians - just her parents.  These whining parents were the ones that gave birth to her, went through teething and chickenpox with her, taught her to tie her shoes, helped her with her homework, loved her all of her life, loved her even after her father walked her down the aisle and gave her hand in marriage to a man they trusted would always care for Terri, in sickness as in health, for better or for worse.  

Terri was brain dead.  She wasn't suffering but her parents sure were.  I can't help but feel for them because I know how it would crush me if all I could do was stand by and watch someone end the life of my child - starve her and dehydrate her to death.  All her parents wanted was to have custody of their child, to take care of her the rest of her life, but her husband would have none of it.  He didn't do it because he suddenly remembered Terri didn't want to live in a PVS - he did it so he could be out from under the burden.  I don't blame him for that, I blame him for not letting her parents have her.  Terri still would have died but she would have died surrounded by people who had hopes for her, who wanted her to live rather than be put down by people who "pull the plug on people all day long."  How ironic that people get upset over the woman in California who said about her son killed by dogs, "It was his time to go."  

Does the autopsy report show at what point Terri Schiavo went past the point of any useful therapy?

All said, I still object to the manner in which Terri Schiavo was murdered.

So far as the politicians that got involved, they were compelled by their constituents to do whatever they could.  They tried even knowing they would fail.  I fault them for giving anyone false hope.  

The jugglers and side show circus people are a different matter altogether and as someone already said, they've moved on to the next place to get their time on camera.

#18 Nikcara

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 07:15 PM

Actually, Micheal tried from the beginning to get her therapy.  He tried for a few years before too many doctors said that there was no hope.  After doctors who knew what they were talking about said there was no hope, he still had her go through at least one experimental treatment under the theory that it might work.  It didn't.  It was after that that he gave up hope and started trying to let his wife die in peace.  He had been doing this for years by the time the media picked it up.  And it wasn't just Micheal that attested to Terri saying that she wouldn't want to live in that condition - her friends, including her best friend, also testified in court that Terri had stated she would never want to live in a permenant vegitative state.  Or are you going to argue that they also wanted to her dead?  Why, for money?  They wouldn't have gotten any.  Also, the money Terri recieved was only allowed to go for her treatment - Micheal didn't get to go have a spending spree.  So really, from interviews and what I know, Micheal was acting as the ideal husband and carrying out his wife's wishes once he knew for certain that she wasn't coming back.

Terri's brain had started to die after her drop in potassium levels caused the heart problems to stop feeding blood to the brain, so once she was in the coma there was no getting out for her.  Too many brain cells had starved/asphixated due to lack of blood by the time they got the heart working properly again - they just didn't know how many had died at the time.  

I understand that Terri's parents loved her.  They simply didn't want to let her go.  However, I do believe that their unwillingness to see the facts made them selfish and stop doing what was best for their daughter - it made them unwilling to do what she wanted.  No parent should have to live through the loss of their child, but when tragedy strikes, they shouldn't prolong it either.  It's harmful to both parent and child.

My heart still goes out to ALL the family - both the parents who loved her and the husband who loved her and all her friends who loved her.  I just wish the suffering hadn't been prolonged for about a decade.
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#19 Balderdash

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 07:22 PM

eloisel, on Jun 15 2005, 07:52 PM, said:

It isn't quite that simple.  First, there was Michael Schiavo's own words that he needed the money to take care of his wife for an average lifespan.  Then, when he moved on to other women and the money got thin, then he suddenly remembered Terri had said she didn't want to live in a PVS. 

Her parents wanted her to live, they had hopes she'd recover, but they were no longer her legal guardians - just her parents.  These whining parents were the ones that gave birth to her, went through teething and chickenpox with her, taught her to tie her shoes, helped her with her homework, loved her all of her life, loved her even after her father walked her down the aisle and gave her hand in marriage to a man they trusted would always care for Terri, in sickness as in health, for better or for worse. 

Terri was brain dead.  She wasn't suffering but her parents sure were.  I can't help but feel for them because I know how it would crush me if all I could do was stand by and watch someone end the life of my child - starve her and dehydrate her to death.  All her parents wanted was to have custody of their child, to take care of her the rest of her life, but her husband would have none of it.  He didn't do it because he suddenly remembered Terri didn't want to live in a PVS - he did it so he could be out from under the burden.  I don't blame him for that, I blame him for not letting her parents have her.  Terri still would have died but she would have died surrounded by people who had hopes for her, who wanted her to live rather than be put down by people who "pull the plug on people all day long."  How ironic that people get upset over the woman in California who said about her son killed by dogs, "It was his time to go." 

Does the autopsy report show at what point Terri Schiavo went past the point of any useful therapy?

All said, I still object to the manner in which Terri Schiavo was murdered.

So far as the politicians that got involved, they were compelled by their constituents to do whatever they could.  They tried even knowing they would fail.  I fault them for giving anyone false hope. 

The jugglers and side show circus people are a different matter altogether and as someone already said, they've moved on to the next place to get their time on camera.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



First of all, Terri Schiavo was not murdered.  People opt to remove feeding tubes all the time as a humane way to end a life that is no longer a life.  And this whole thing wasn't about Terri's parents it was about Terri and what Terri would have wanted.  Her husband tried like hell for years to have hope for her and when all hope was gone he did what she would have wanted.   If the part where you falsely claim that when the money ran out Michael suddenly remembered that Terri wouldn't want to live that way because of burden, there was no burden, her parents said they would take care of all of that.  He was offered a million dollars to turn her care over to her parents, he refused.  It was never about money.  It was about Terri.

Edited by Balderdash, 15 June 2005 - 07:24 PM.

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#20 Cheile

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Posted 15 June 2005 - 07:23 PM

having similar discussions with my parents, i fail to see why the Schindlers persisted in this fight, other than their being blind to the facts.  that shell without a brain was NOT their daughter.  it was just what was left after her brain--the part that was ACTUALLY Terri--died.

Edited by Cheile, 15 June 2005 - 07:24 PM.

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