waterpanther, on Jun 18 2005, 02:26 PM, said:
How about Sunday schools that instill fear of going to hell in kids? Are they terrorists, too?
~.~ imo, yes, they are, which is why my son never went to church.
How about parents that threaten physical punishment? Are they terrorists, too?
~.~ No. In the animal kingdom, parents physically punish their young. You will note, I did not say abuse, I said punish. This comes in the form of threats and actual physical contact. This is done to keep the young alive, it is done to teach order, the human animal needs to do the same thing. Again, note, I did not say abuse, there is a difference.
LoTS (I think?):
Whose members target children, mainly.
Flatly untrue. Post proof or retract, please.
~.~ Does it really matter if they 'target' children? Is it not bad enough that it has been done? If your child was shown pictures of this nature, would you approve? My son was in pre-school when PETA showed up at several schools and pulled this crap. I spoke to my son's teacher and told her I was to be called if they showed up at our school. As I told her back then: "I guarantee you, no one ...ever... shows my son graphic s--- like that and no one ...ever...tells my son I am an animal killer and gets away with it."
waterpanther, on Jun 18 2005, 10:11 AM, said:
To a certain point, that's true. But it's usually "extremists" that get a movement going. Betty Frieden, Susan Brownmiller and Germaine Greer were all "extremists" at the beginning of the women's movement, but Hillary Clinton wouldn't be a prospective Presidential candidate today without them. The gay civil rights movement began with an act of violence, the Stonewall Rebellion. For that matter, it was "extremists" who tossed the tea into Boston Harbor one dark night.
~.~ There is no doubt that extremists do get something done when it needs to be done, but you know as well as anyone that there are good and bad effects in extremism. The examples you give are good, the people showing graphic s--- to some child, are bad, ...any... ...way... you look at them.
That said, it's not really useful to label all members of a movement extremists because some are.
~.~ Very true. I do hope those that are not extremists, distance themselves, do not give aid to the extremists and do not defend their actions in anyway.
If PETA is involved with ALF and ELF, I will admit my opinion of them sunk even lower.
PETA is easier to label "extremist" because it questions beliefs a lot of people simply take for granted, and the first response to that kind of challenge is usually defensiveness.
~.~ The same defensiveness that you are feeling right now, correct?
You take your belief for granted, but this does not mean you speak for everyone, nor should you. Same as they cannot speak for everyone and should not.
You have the right to not eat meat, I have the right to eat it, does this mean I am guilty of being cruel to animals? If so, then I will try to remember this the next time I am aiding a neighbor in doctoring an animal or doctoring one of my own.
btw, I was once verbally attacked by someone, who as far as I know, was and still is, a member of PETA, for having my colts gelded. Why? Because she said it was not a natural thing to do, so it was cruel. So much for spaying and neutering your pets.
But PETA does not deal primarily with "the natural world" as you're using the phrase. They deal with animal/human interaction, which is frequently far from natural. In fact, the lack of naturalness in most such interactions is one of their most strongly argued points.
~.~ Then, we can no longer aid animals and fowl inside of our cities, as that could be considered animal/human interaction. So, Pale Male and Nola would not be protected and allowed to nest where they chose.
I realize this is not what you mean, but you need to look at what is being said and how far extremism can go. PETA is not going to help animals/fowl if they keep going the way they are going. In fact, they are going to harm efforts to save endangered species, because many times it takes a human involvement to save those species, sometimes even a hands on involvement.
From what I have read, PETA is involved with ALF and ELF by giving money, as long as they aid them and as long as they do not denounce and stand against the terrorist acts, they are involved and approving. Before you tell me they do not give to the attacks, let me point out that if you give aid to a terrorist, you are helping them to continue to terrorize. Therefore, you are involved in the acts. If you buy clothes made by children, you are involved in contuing the cruelty. etc...
PETA has it's good side, defend that, but do not defend the bad.
One more note, it has been discovered that plants also feel. So, because we are a 'thinking' animal, this means we must die in order to prevent infliction of pain on any other being. When we go, all that will be left will be animals/fowl/plants/fish/etc... feeding on each other, which is how this world was designed... including the human animal.
Sorry this post got as long as it did. ~blush~