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Clinton Demands For Pataki to Repudiate Rove

Politics Karl Rove Senator Clinton Gov. Pataki New York Liberal Mis-Characterization

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#1 Chipper

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 04:18 PM

http://www.newsday.c...y-top-headlines

Quote

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton demanded Thursday that Gov. George Pataki repudiate a top White House advisor's comments about liberals' reaction to Sept. 11 remarks delivered while Pataki sat nearby onstage.

Clinton, D-N.Y., joined Senate Democrats who called on Karl Rove to apologize or resign for his comments Wednesday night in Manhattan to the New York state Conservative Party

The senator said Pataki was at the event, and should speak out against Rove's characterization.

Rove, President Bush's chief political advisor, said liberals "saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers."

Conservatives, said Rove, "saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war."

I honestly have no words.  So now we have to rewrite 9/11 too?!
"Courtesy is how we got civilized. The blind assertion of rights is what threatens to decivilize us. Everybody's got lots of rights that are set out legally. Responsibilities are not enumerated, for good reason, but they are set into the social fabric. Is it such a sacrifice to not be an a**hole?"

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#2 MuseZack

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 05:27 PM

WTF?!  I read the transcript of Rove's speech, and it was like reading something from one of the more unhinged right-wing blogs like Little Green Footballs or Free Republic, not one of the most powerful officials in the Republican Party.   Is that what we've come to-- accusing half the country of treason and wanting to give Osama a big hug after 9/11?  I'd be outraged, but I don't think I have any left.
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#3 Spectacles

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 05:29 PM

Yep. Rove seems to have forgotten that a huge majority of Americans--conservative, moderate, and liberal--supported the war in Afghanistan (the one that had a direct connection to 9/11). Sure, there were a few on the far left who argued against it, Noam Chomsky comes to mind. But it's completely false for Rove to characterize all or even most liberals this way.

Furthermore, I imagine that most Americans are getting sick of the partisan sniping, whether it comes from the right or the left. Rove may have energized the basest of his base, but he risks alienating more rational Republicans with this stuff. Just as Dean risks alienating moderate Democrats with some of his remarks.

I'm sure as heck sick of it. I wish grown-ups would take charge in DC.  :(
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#4 Shalamar

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 06:39 PM

Are there left in either political party? Are there any in DC?

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#5 Nonny

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 08:27 PM

Chipper, on Jun 23 2005, 01:18 PM, said:

Quote

Conservatives, said Rove, "saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for war."
I honestly have no words.  So now we have to rewrite 9/11 too?!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if I wanted to get Rovian and use his kind of words, only from the opposite end of the political spectrum, of course, I'd have to say something like, Bush saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for milk and cookies.  :sarcasm:  

Nonny
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#6 eloisel

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 11:38 PM

Pataki should just say to Rove - "Your mama!"

#7 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 23 June 2005 - 11:44 PM

Nonny, on Jun 23 2005, 08:27 PM, said:

Well, if I wanted to get Rovian and use his kind of words, only from the opposite end of the political spectrum, of course, I'd have to say something like, Bush saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for milk and cookies.  :sarcasm: 

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And that is almost as absurd.

I'm honestly shocked by this blanket statement, but I can somewhat understand where he's coming from. Afterall it does seem like, at least to me, that the Liberals do want to give therapy to those who attacked us.

You have groups like the ACLU, Amensty International, Red Cross, ect...who seem to do nothing but attack the Government on behalf of these terrorists. I'd almost prefer it if they'd at least pick up a weapon. Hell, at least the terrorist are honest about the way they fight, unlike the ACLU and the other groups.
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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#8 Call Me Robin

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 05:47 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 24 2005, 04:44 AM, said:

And that is almost as absurd.

I'm honestly shocked by this blanket statement, but I can somewhat understand where he's coming from. Afterall it does seem like, at least to me, that the Liberals do want to give therapy to those who attacked us.

You have groups like the ACLU, Amensty International, Red Cross, ect...who seem to do nothing but attack the Government on behalf of these terrorists. I'd almost prefer it if they'd at least pick up a weapon. Hell, at least the terrorist are honest about the way they fight, unlike the ACLU and the other groups.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Groups like the ACLU are concerned about the erosion of America's constitutionally protected freedoms.  Do you feel that this is a bad thing?  Do you believe that defending our Constitution is in any way akin to aiding terrorists?

Organizations like Amnesty International and the Red Cross are concerned about torture and inhuman treatment of prisoners all over the world.  Needless to say, some of the most repressive, despotic regimes hate Amnesty International.  Do you think it is wrong to defend human rights, as AI has done?  Do you feel that we should lower ourselves to the level of Saddam Hussein or Kim Jong Il in the fight against terror?

And what of the Red Cross, an international relief organization with a sterling reputation?  How is providing relief and supporting human welfare the same thing as aiding terrorists?

Both AI and the RC are INTERNATIONAL organizations, and not strictly "liberal" organizations.  Just some clarification there.

In short, what kind of country is this where respected groups such as these are considered to be terrorist sympathizers?


*shakes head*

Edited by Call Me Robin, 24 June 2005 - 05:49 AM.

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#9 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 07:28 AM

Rove was referring to MoveOn.org's petition following Sept. 11 that called for not responding militarily, and to liberal Michael Moore's feigned puzzlement over why we're going after the Taliban when we should be looking at what we've done to anger them (paraphrasing mine).
700,000 people signed that petition.  That's a more than just a few.  Further, I think 700 thousand represents an alarming number more who didn't sign but felt the same.

I concur with Pataki's rebuttal:
-snippet-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But the Republican Pataki says Clinton is a hypocrite. He says she never condemned Democratic Senator Dick Durbin for likening the Guantanamo Bay prison to Nazi concentration camps, and Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean for saying many Republicans never earned an honest living.

“Senator Clinton might think about her propensity to allow outrageous statements from the other side that are far beyond political dialogue,” said the governor.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I do think it was a mistake for Scott McClellan to equate Rove's liberal word with Democratic   leaders, however.  

I find it hilarious and surprising that Democrats now are calling for Rove's resignation no less!  Well, not surprising actually, since I find their protestations insincere and calculated (to go on that all important "record") in light of their lack of outrage over Durbin.

Edited by Nittany Lioness, 24 June 2005 - 07:29 AM.

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#10 Spectacles

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 08:17 AM

Quote

Three days after the terrorist attacks, the Senate voted 98-0 and the House voted 420-1 for a resolution authorizing Bush to use "all necessary and appropriate force" against those responsible for the terrorism. After the votes, Bush said in a statement: "I am gratified that the Congress has united so powerfully by taking this action. It sends a clear message — our people are together, and we will prevail."


http://news.yahoo.co...h/rove_speech_8
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#11 Nonny

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 08:52 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Jun 23 2005, 08:44 PM, said:

Nonny, on Jun 23 2005, 08:27 PM, said:

Well, if I wanted to get Rovian and use his kind of words, only from the opposite end of the political spectrum, of course, I'd have to say something like, Bush saw the savagery of 9/11 and the attacks and prepared for milk and cookies.  :sarcasm: 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And that is almost as absurd.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's my point.  :)  

"Almost"?! :hehe:  Hmmmmm....

Nonny
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"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#12 Zwolf

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 09:18 AM

Quote

and to liberal Michael Moore's feigned puzzlement over why we're going after the Taliban when we should be looking at what we've done to anger them (paraphrasing mine).

****** I think that's considerably more than paraphrasing, since I've never heard anything like that coming out of Michael Moore's blowhole.  He's said some stupid things, and I haven't kept up with everything he's said, but I did see the movie and read the first book (which is why I didn't read the second ;) ) and didn't find anything of the sort.   Like him or not, he's no fan of the Taliban; he faulted Bush's oil buddies for inviting Taliban representatives to Texas back in 2000 or so.

As far as looking at what they're angry about, that's not a bad idea.  We should know everything we can about our enemy... so we can kill them all.  That's basic Sun Tzu...

Cheers,

Zwolf
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Trying to talk to you

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But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
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Trying to talk to you

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#13 MuseZack

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 10:28 AM

Now I think I realize why Karl Rove sounded so eerily familiar.  He was trolling-- only on a national level!   He was being outrageous and offensive for the express purpose of riling up liberals and Democrats.   It's like the old Texas political adage about calling your opponent a pigf*****.  It doesn't matter if it isn't true, the point is to make the other guy deny it.


In situations like this, I wonder if the solution isn't to emulate Kirk and Kang in "Day of the Dove"-- just laugh at the pathetic little hate monger, while chortling at how desperate he has to be to break out the rhetorical H-bombs in 2005.
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We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
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#14 Lover of Purple

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 10:29 AM

Karl and Dean...two peas in a pod???? ;)

#15 eloisel

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:35 AM

I'm just wondering when this bunch of bozos are going to get around to taking care of the business at hand and quit standing around posturing and name calling.  Condi is overseas kicking butt and taking names, telling them we're serious about democracy ... while her hail fellows are sticking their tongues out at each other.

#16 Lover of Purple

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 11:37 AM

eloisel, on Jun 24 2005, 09:35 AM, said:

I'm just wondering when this bunch of bozos are going to get around to taking care of the business at hand and quit standing around posturing and name calling.  Condi is overseas kicking butt and taking names, telling them we're serious about democracy ... while her hail fellows are sticking their tongues out at each other.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I wonder that myself. :)

#17 Zwolf

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 12:59 PM

Some conservatives are also finding Rove to be a big a-hole, too.  This restores a little of my faith in the integrity and intelligence of American politics.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#18 Delvo

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 01:09 PM

The problem isn't inaccuracy in what he said; I was there at the time and I saw what he's talking about too... the problem is the same as when Dean spouts his crap, including the true parts. It's just pointlessly belligerent and preaching to the choir. Those who like to hear it don't need to be convinced because they're already with you, and most of those who need to be convinced won't like to hear it and therefor won't join you. What these guys should be trying to do is sound convincing to people that could be brought over to their side.

#19 Nittany Lioness

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 01:33 PM

zwolf -
from a chapter in Dude, Where's My Country?
and I quote:

Dear "Mr. President," who attacked the United States on September 11th?  -- a guy on dialysis from a cave in Afghanistan, or our friends, the Saudi Arabians?

And from some interview http://www.commondre...04/0128-10.htm:

"You know the question a lot of people were asking after Sept. 11 -- 'Why do they hate us?' The question I want to ask is, 'Why DON'T they hate us?' -- and then take my camera around the world a bit and show what's done in our name," Moore says.

Terrorism is wrong, he says. But when he has finished cataloguing misdeeds by the U.S. government and corporations, viewers will feel lucky their country hasn't drawn more attacks.

And why, he continues, are Americans so obsessed with terrorism in the first place? Sept. 11 was horrific. But the typical citizen has almost no chance of encountering terrorists.

He accuses the Bush administration of exaggerating the danger to frighten voters into giving the president another term: "It is one of the most successful lies ever perpetrated upon a people."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sure Stupid White Men is rife with such musings as well.

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#20 Spectacles

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Posted 24 June 2005 - 01:46 PM

Quote

Delvo: The problem isn't inaccuracy in what he said

What is accurate about a blanket accusation that liberals didn't see the need for taking military action after 9/11, Michael Moore notwithstanding?

As for the rest of your statement, I agree. This kind of tit-for-tat, neener-neener-ness from both sides isn't doing this country a bit of good, and frankly those who engage in it are sounding more and more moronic to me every day. It's all about "my team" vs. "your team" which is fine for sports, but these aren't recreational issues we're dealing with here. This country has some serious problems confronting it. There are surely some effective solutions out there. And the people in charge of making decisions and taking action in this country damned well better quit playing liberal vs. conservative and get busy.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman



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