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Karl Rove named as source in Plame outting

Top News 2005 Valerie Plame Karl Rove Investigation

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#1 Spectacles

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 04:31 PM

It'll be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

http://www.editorand...t_id=1000972841
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#2 Chipper

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 04:35 PM

Hmm, well this is interesting, but it's still not completely confirmed, so I'll hold off on comment.
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#3 eloisel

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 06:47 PM

I wonder what Ken Starr is doing these days.

#4 Spectacles

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 07:22 PM

Here's a link to the Newsweek piece by Ishikoff:

http://www.msnbc.msn...6/site/newsweek
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#5 Gefiltefishmon

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 07:51 PM

Of Course he leaked it and OF COURSE all the toadies are going to try and obfuscate and lie and deny until it comes out that Karl Rove violated the law and needs to go to jail for it.

Then, of course, he will have "acted on his own" and "without the President's knowledge" and such. But they all knew, and Rove did it. Betcha! :Oo:
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#6 BklnScott

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 08:46 PM

It seems like Ambassador Wilson is one step closer to seeing his fondest wish -- "Karl Rove frog-marched out of the white house" -- realized.  

Is it just me or is all hell about to break loose?

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#7 waterpanther

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:08 PM

Very likely.   :devil:

I do wonder, though, whether right wing bloviators like Limbaugh and Coulter who have spent the last several years bleating that liberals are traitors will be equally eager to demand that Rove take the long drop.  Exposing a spy during wartime is construable as treason, after all; the penalty is death; and there is no statute of limitations.
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#8 Nonny

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:16 PM

waterpanther, on Jul 2 2005, 06:08 PM, said:

I do wonder, though, whether right wing bloviators like Limbaugh and Coulter who have spent the last several years bleating that liberals are traitors will be equally eager to demand that Rove take the long drop.  Exposing a spy during wartime is construable as treason, after all; the penalty is death; and there is no statute of limitations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Soooo can't wait to watch Hypocrisy on Parade as Limbaugh, Coulter and their buds step all over themselves verbally.  :sarcasm:  

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#9 D'Monix

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:16 PM

Well, if all this proves to be true then he should be sent up the river.  Blowing an agent's cover like that is a very serious offense, especiallu if it was done in spite.  Doesn't matter which political party the offender belongs to, they should be tried and have the book thrown at them for it if found guilty.

#10 Cardie

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:19 PM

Believe me, there will be underlings primed to fall on their swords, and Mr. Rove will, at the most, decide he wants to retire from politics and spend more time with his family.

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#11 Gefiltefishmon

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:42 PM

Cardie, on Jul 2 2005, 09:19 PM, said:

Believe me, there will be underlings primed to fall on their swords, and Mr. Rove will, at the most, decide he wants to retire from politics and spend more time with his family.

Cardie

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Cardie! You could put Ms Cleo out of business (wait, is she still IN business?) - I think you have hit the nail on the head there - If, in fact, King Karl is the guilty party there will undoubtably be some wide-eyed true-believer more than willing to take a fall for this horrible pond-scum of a human being.

You heard it here first folks. :alien:
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#12 D'Monix

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:48 PM

First it has to be proven that he leaked classified information, there were two sources for Cooper's story, and Rove is supposedly one of them.  I wonder who the other one is.

#13 Norville

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:49 PM

...

Edited by Norville, 06 July 2005 - 06:12 PM.

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#14 D'Monix

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 09:56 PM

heh, it's wrong because blowing an agents cover like that not only puts her at risk, but it puts other agents at risk as well.  And it tends to scuttle other ongoing intelligence operations.  If it was a civilian who blew the cover i'd not shed a tear if the agency made them 'die of the measles.' No joke, it's that serious.

If all this is true, Rove did more to harm our efforts to track down the real terrorist cells than anything else, plus puts god knows how many agents at risk of being uncovered by counterintelligence crackdowns because he blew an agent's cover willingly and knowingly, an Act of Treason under federal law.

Edited by D'Monix, 02 July 2005 - 10:04 PM.


#15 DWF

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 10:16 PM

D'Monix, on Jul 2 2005, 10:48 PM, said:

First it has to be proven that he leaked classified information, there were two sources for Cooper's story, and Rove is supposedly one of them.  I wonder who the other one is.

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#16 Caretaker

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Posted 02 July 2005 - 11:23 PM

Finally.  I can't wait to see "all hell break loose" (as _ph put it) with regards to this.


By the way, check out Lawrene O'Donnell's discussion/response to this at The Huffington Post.

Edited by Caretaker, 03 July 2005 - 12:16 AM.


#17 eloisel

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 01:13 AM

Norville, on Jul 3 2005, 02:49 AM, said:

See, that's what I assumed, that it's never acceptable to blow an agent's cover, but there were people here going on like "Why is it wrong? She and her husband are liberal, anyway, and it's so liberal to object to this." (Bending over backwards to excuse it was the idea, if not stated in precisely that manner.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who is doing that?

#18 Spectacles

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 07:30 AM

From LATimes:


http://www.latimes.c...1,2388418.story

Quote

Rove Talked But Did Not Tattle, His Attorney Says
The Bush advisor spoke with a Time reporter days before a CIA operative was outed.

By Richard B. Schmitt, Times Staff Writer


WASHINGTON — Karl Rove, one of President Bush's closest advisors, spoke with a Time magazine reporter days before the name of a CIA operative surfaced in the press, but did not leak the confidential information, a lawyer for Rove said Saturday in a new admission in the case.

Rove spoke to Time reporter Matthew Cooper in July 2003, before a syndicated column revealed the identity of operative Valerie Plame, the wife of Bush administration critic and former U.S. Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV.




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In confirming the conversation between Rove and Cooper, Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, emphasized that the presidential advisor did not reveal any secrets. But the disclosure raised new questions about Rove and the precise role of the White House in the apparent national security breach as Cooper and another reporter, Judith Miller of the New York Times, faced imminent jail terms.



Quote

Rove, Bush's deputy chief of staff and longtime political strategist, testified before a grand jury investigating the Plame case on three occasions. His latest appearance was in October 2004, about the same time the prosecutor investigating the case said his probe was complete with the exception of testimony from Cooper and Miller.

Special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald is investigating the alleged outing of Plame by Robert Novak, a columnist and CNN pundit, on July 14, 2003. Some suspect that the White House leaked her name in retaliation for a July 6, 2003, op-ed piece in the New York Times written by Wilson, her husband. He accused the administration of twisting intelligence to justify the invasion of Iraq.

Fitzgerald interviewed many other White House officials and journalists, including Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. Although Novak was the first to publish Plame's name, Fitzgerald has indicated that whoever leaked the information to Novak also might have revealed her identity to other journalists. That could constitute separate violations of a federal law that protects the identity of undercover CIA personnel.

Prosecutions are rare, however, because they require showing that the leak was intentionally disclosed and that the person leaking the information knew the government was trying to conceal it.

Rove's (and Scooter Libby's) defense will be that they knew she worked for the CIA but didn't know she was a deep-cover operative. Therefore, they didn't "knowingly" out her.


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Luskin, Rove's attorney, acknowledged in an interview Saturday that Cooper and Rove had spoken days before Novak's column, in a conversation that was initiated by Cooper.

"What I can tell you is that Cooper called Rove during that week between the Wilson article and the Novak article, but that Karl absolutely did not identify Valerie Plame," Luskin said. "He did not disclose any confidential information about anybody to Cooper or to anybody else."

Luskin said he would not "characterize the substance of the conversation," which was covered in the testimony Rove provided to the grand jury investigating the leak. "The folks in Fitzgerald's office have asked us not to talk about what Karl has had to say," Luskin said.

Luskin said Rove had been assured by prosecutors that he was not a target of the investigation. "We were advised recently that his status has not changed," he added.

"It is certainly my understanding that Karl has testified absolutely truthfully about all his conversations about everybody that he has been asked about during that week," Luskin added. "Nobody has suggested to us ever that they think that there are any problems about whether they think he is being candid."

But Newsweek magazine reported on its website Saturday that Rove was one of Cooper's sources identified in notes that Time turned over to Fitzgerald. And separately, MSNBC political analyst Lawrence O'Donnell said in a taped TV program that he had information indicating Rove was one of Cooper's sources. O'Donnell's comments were made in a segment of "The McLaughlin Group" that was set to air in Los Angeles on PBS Saturday night.

Cooper's lawyer, Richard Sauber, declined to discuss Rove's role in Cooper's work, saying in response to an e-mail message, "We're not going to discuss one way or another what the [documents turned over by Time] say."

Interesting that here the lawyer is referring to a phone call between Rove and Cooper before Novak broke the Plame story. Phone calls, unless recorded, can be characterized pretty much anyway you want them to be, especially when the other party refuses to testify about the contents. But the new problem for Rove is apparently in the documents that Time handed over to the prosecutor: emails, notes.

I honestly don't think anything huge is going to come out of this, not because it shouldn't but because these people are good at weaseling out of tight jams. Must be all that oil. ;)
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#19 Delvo

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 08:41 AM

eloisel, on Jul 3 2005, 01:13 AM, said:

Norville, on Jul 3 2005, 02:49 AM, said:

See, that's what I assumed, that it's never acceptable to blow an agent's cover, but there were people here going on like "Why is it wrong? She and her husband are liberal, anyway, and it's so liberal to object to this." (Bending over backwards to excuse it was the idea, if not stated in precisely that manner.)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who is doing that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nobody. (Elaboration/explanation on that fact removed because someone mistook it for an attack)

What DID happen was twofold. First, it was unclear at first what the big deal was supposed to be because it had only been "leaked" that she worked for the CIA, not that she was an agent under cover as opposed to a regular employee whose employment is no secret. Only later on did the specific claim that she was indeed a secret agent who could be "outed" emerge. Second, the people getting all riled up about it included some lies in conjunction with it, such as claiming that someone at the White House had been calling journalists to try to find someone who'd take it and that it was central to some big  point the Republicans were trying to make a big deal out of (when in fact the original "leak" was a tengential anecdote in the sixth paragraph in an otherwise little-read article on another subject).

The only way to reach the conlcusion that the Republicans are up to something dirty here is to start off from that "they're a bunch of Obsidian Tal Shiar 31 mafia stormtroopers" position first, and anyone who can pull off that kind of mental gymnastics is just too much of a froggin' looniac to even attempt to communicate with. I know the automatic reaction to that from them is going to be "You mean like the claims about Vince Foster being assassinated?" Well, maybe, since the magnitude of the accusation is similar because the whole idea of deliberately "outing" a CIA agent can only be to get someone to do your assassinations for you, but this isn't about the Foster case and I'm not talking about Foster or the Clintons, so that would just be a lame red herring.

If you just look at what really happened instead of trying desperately to invent conspiracies, it's clear from how unimportant they thought it was and how casually it was treated and the fact that nobody really cared at first, that Novak and/or his source committed a crime of ignorance, negligence, incompetence, or other error, without thinking at first how serious it could be... in which case they need to be fined, fired, jailed, or whatever comes from such an error, and Democrats need to learn to quit discrediting themselves even when the facts are already on their side by going so far overboard with everything.

The only other choice is that the Great Evil Forces were deliberately trying to get CIA agents assassinated or captured and tortured... and if that's your story then take your drool bucket and straightjacket and tell it to the giant flies who are eating the walls.

Edited by Delvo, 03 July 2005 - 12:40 PM.


#20 Hibblette

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Posted 03 July 2005 - 08:45 AM

Quote

Rove's (and Scooter Libby's) defense will be that they knew she worked for the CIA but didn't know she was a deep-cover operative. Therefore, they didn't "knowingly" out her.

I think the old propaganda saying belongs here-"Loose Lips sinks ships."

If she worked for the CIA then just the very essence of that should have red markers around it.

Rove is ... never mind.
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