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Texas Becomes a Majority-Minority State

Texas Non-White Majority Hispanic Population Latinos

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#41 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 07:56 AM

Rhiannonjk, on Aug 13 2005, 07:28 AM, said:

Now, in NC, you can find a mexican restaurant as easily as a McDonalds.  They are usually staffed by friendly guys, and the food is YUM!  If this is a side-effect of having all the immigration into the state (and NC is one of the top states for mexican immigration) then I think I can deal with it :)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


As long as they learn to speak English...I refuse to learn another language just to go out to eat, sorry not going to happen.

Also, as long as the immigrants pay their share of the taxes, I also don't have a problem with it. But this giving them a tax break is BS...
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

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Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#42 offworlder

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 04:28 PM

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As long as they learn to speak English...I refuse to learn another language just to go out to eat, sorry not going to happen.

Also, as long as the immigrants pay their share of the taxes, I also don't have a problem with it. But this giving them a tax break is BS...
Holy crapoli!
The first time Ever I agree with every single word in a Lord post
;)
but seriously, I do ........ first things first, top post thread meaning: I don't know yet how I'll feel as an Anglo type if my state follows others and I become in the minority; I am already in my building where ¾ of all are either Latin or India/Pakistan, which I don't mind ..... but in my whole city or state .... don't know how I'll feel, I think I don't want to be a minority in my own homeland, but we'll see how I  feel when it happens ..........
now back to Lord: I agree that no American should ever 'must learn' some other language just to communicate with people in our own freakin country: we were founded by English speakers and our lands should always have only English as the official language. My people had to learn English hundreds of years ago as the 'Anglish' came into our lands up North of them and made it hard to our people to keep our ways or hold office or own lands, not as draconian as Ireland but still, it was a bit, espaecially after the '45! (my own clan had our names outlawed by the crown-campbell consortium {don't hold a grudge now the C's are fine folk these days ;) } but it was a tough time for us)

When my folks came over to NorthAm a couple hundred years ago (because of all that rot?) they knew these lands speak Anglish, and even coming down from Ontario we knew it was a recently former Anglish colony that was founded by Anglish speaking men who wrote wondrous things.

Even some others who came over like the Germans when Penn got the charter from the crown for Pennsylvania, they had to learn English besides their own ways, they were a minority, yet Penn let them keep their own tongue and religious culture and own their own farms for the first time, after leaving Germany what with the productivity problems and that dang landed aristocracy where they just were not going to able to own much. I really do have to read up on Penn getting that charter and having tolerance with those who came in there! He seems quite a man, did anyone like McCollough write about him?! :)

How long would I last in France, if I came in illegally, didn't pay taxes, didn't learn French ... people coming over can keep their ways too but they Must come legally, certifiably, and they must meet requirements we must, and they should learn Anglish too like we all had to, and I should have the option of ordering my dinner in a flowery type thing like Chinese or Spanish OR in a gludgy stodgy type thing like Anglish ;), but I should not have to change away from me own nation's past to do it.

Whatever tax break I get or must pay, they must too... illegals should get nothing I don't, and should not even get as much as legals or citizens, heck citizenship should get you something!
And if I were hiring, there would be language tests; not to make them feel like some minority, different point altogether: we speak English in these lands just like Chinese speak theirs in their lands, or Spanish in Peru, or German in Germany (my bro lives there and is thusly fluent, couldn't survive otherwise).

Now having said that: many in Copenhavn or Oslo or Stockholm or Helsinki speak English, heck wherever Rick Steves goes in Europe he finds English speakers! I do think, just for their own development and enhancement, Americans should learn a second language, like I'm learning Spanish. Or heck, maybe I should learn Gaelic?!
OK I'm done :D
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#43 Raina

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Posted 13 August 2005 - 06:31 PM

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You don't hear people in other countries calling themselves American-Africans, American-Asians, ect. Bottom line is that if your a citizen of this country then you are AMERICAN. Why this political correct need to say African-American, Asain-American??? It does nothing but seperate the citizens of this country.
Actually, Canadians tend to define non-whites by their country of origin or their ancestors' country of origin. I don't think it's political correctness more than just outright racism. Take me for example; my ancestors came from China but I was born and raised in Canada. I grew up in a predominantly white area, and had it pounded into my head from an early age that I wasn't Canadian, I was Chinese. Luckily for me, large numbers of immigrants over the years have made race a non-issue, but I still tend to identify as Chinese-Canadian more than just Canadian. Ah the joys of racism.

Reading over this thread has made me realize that the immigrant and language issue in Canada isn't nearly so bad. Our voter and transit info booklets now come in 5 or 6 languages and people working customer service often speak barely comprehensible English, but they can be understood with much effort. Though I think part of it is that we've got immigrants from so many different places that English is the only unifying language we've got.

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#44 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 09:57 AM

offworlder, on Aug 13 2005, 04:28 PM, said:

Holy crapoli!
The first time Ever I agree with every single word in a Lord post
;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



*looks outside the window* The sky isn't falling. Someone check the temperature in Hell, make sure it hasn't frozen over.  ;)
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

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#45 Lin731

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Posted 14 August 2005 - 11:04 AM

For me, it really comes down to 2 things:

1. Why are you here?

To me, if you come to American, you learn English. If I was moving to France, I'd learn French. When someone comes here and refuses to learn the native language, it feels like (to me) they are all about what they can get here and not at all about really being part of this country. For those who can't take English classes because their illegals...Go Home. While I sympathise with people wanting to come here in hopes of a better life, you don't do it by border hopping in the dead of night. Do it the legal way, anything less makes you a criminal.


2. What are you costing the country?

Did you know as things stand right now illegal aliens are eligible to draw Social Security?

http://www.numbersus...otalization.htm Go check out this link, it really gives you an idea of the longterm ramification for Americans paying for this.

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U.S. law bars aliens living here illegally from receiving social security benefits. However, until 2004, the law permitted aliens to claim credit for work performed while here illegally if the aliens either left the United States or obtained legal status in the United States. If such work - either alone or in combination with work performed while here legally - amounted to the 40 quarters of work required to become eligible for social security benefits, these aliens (and their spouses and dependents) would receive full benefits.



Bilingual everything is not cheap nor is medical care.

http://www.house.gov...lsCost2005.html

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Emergency Health Care: Taxpayers are forced to provide emergency health care for illegal aliens and their children who do not have insurance.

 

Emergency health care for illegal aliens along the southwestern border is already costing area hospitals $200 million a year, with perhaps another $100 million in extended care costs.
 

Hospitals must provide emergency treatment to all who walk through the door, regardless of their citizenship status or ability to pay. In 2001, America 's hospitals provided nearly $21 billion in uncompensated health care services.
 

Hospitals in California rank first in the country in expenditures for providing health care to illegal immigrants.
 

The Center for Medicaid Services at the Dept. of Health and Human Services reported that for FY 2001, the health care costs for illegal immigrants in California were over $648 million. California paid 47 percent of these costs, or $304,785,368, for this mandate.




Educational support for them:

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Education: Taxpayers are being forced to pay for the schooling of the children of illegal immigrants.

     

Illegal immigrants who take low-paying jobs don't pay enough in taxes, if they pay at all, to reimburse taxpayers the $5,000-plus annually it takes to educate each of their children.
   

The total K-12 school expenditure for illegal immigrants costs the states $7.4 billion annually-- enough to buy a computer for every junior high student nationwide.
 

In California, the $2.2 billion spent on the education of the children of illegal immigrants for one year could:
Pay the salaries of 41, 764 teachers, or 14 percent of California's teachers.
Pay for California's class sizes to remain capped at 20 students for a year, with $300 million to spare.
Buy books, computers, and other instructional equipment for 346, 689 classrooms, 79 percent of all classrooms in California.
Fully fund California 's free lunch program for almost two years.

Police:

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Crime: Fifteen percent of California 's prison inmates are undocumented aliens, costing the state more than $500 million annually.

Social Services:

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Welfare and Government Assistance: Fraudulent Social Security cards, driver's licenses and birth certificates are being bought by thousands of illegal immigrants each year. These false documents are used by individuals to get millions of dollars worth of welfare, public housing and Social Security benefits.

  
border patrol:
http://www.newsmax.c...18/121904.shtml

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The cost to U.S. taxpayers of making a single arrest along the U.S.-Mexican border increased from $300 in 1992 to $1,700 in 2002 – an increase of 467 percent in just one decade.

That's the shocking report from the Cato Institute's Center for Trade Policy Studies, which takes a critical look at American efforts to stem the tide of illegal immigration from south of the border.

The report, written by Princeton University Prof. Douglas S. Massey, says that those stepped-up efforts have in fact backfired and led to a drop in the apprehension of illegals entering the country – and an increase in the number of aliens living in the U.S.
According to Massey, increased border enforcement has only succeeded in pushing immigration flows into more remote regions.

That has led to a tripling of the death rate at the border and a dramatic decrease in the rate of apprehension.

Meanwhile the tax money being spent to fight illegal immigration has skyrocketed. In 1986, the budget for the entire Immigration and Naturalization Service was $474 million, including $151 million for the Border Patrol.

By 2002, the budget of the Border Patrol alone had reached $1.6 billion, while the budget of the INS was $6.2 billion.

The growing expenditures, coupled with the decrease in apprehensions, led to the 467 percent increase in the cost of making one arrest along the border, according to Massey, coauthor of "Beyond Smoke and Mirrors: Mexican Immigration in an Era of Economic Integration."

Furthermore, increased U.S. efforts to apprehend aliens have driven up the cost of crossing the border illegally, so aliens are more likely to stay longer in the U.S. to recoup their cost of entry – or not return to their home country at all.

"If this increase in the cost of enforcement, high as it was, had slowed the flow of undocumented migrants, one might consider it money well spent," Massey concludes.

"But as we have seen, in 2002 the probability of apprehension was lower than at any point in the modern history of Mexican-U.S. migration, and the number of Mexicans entering the United States was greater than ever."

Imagine how much the costs have climbed since 2002.

If you're here legally fine but if you're not, I resent having to pay more in taxes to support people that shouldn't even be here in the first place. If demographics change due to legal immigration, that's fine but it isn't, it's due to illegal immigration in which case it's not that we need to change to accomodate them, they just shouldn't be here period....I'm sick of footing the bill so big business has a cheap labor pool (so they don't have to pay American's even a minimum wage) to do those jobs.
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#46 Themis

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 01:57 PM

offworlder, on Aug 13 2005, 09:28 PM, said:

I do think, just for their own development and enhancement, Americans should learn a second language, like I'm learning Spanish.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I absolutely agree with that.  Studying another language gives you insight into another culture and history as well.  It has many, many benefits.  

But nobody should learn another language because they feel they have to in order to communicate with people who come to this country to live (live, not vacation) and don't learn English.

Lin731

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I'm sick of footing the bill so big business has a cheap labor pool (so they don't have to pay American's even a minimum wage) to do those jobs.

Preach it!  Good data as well.  How about a new program for the terminally unemployed - build a wall between Mexico and the US!  Or maybe a very long canal.... OK, I know it isn't that simple and the issue is very, very complicated, but somehow we have to stop employers from hiring these people so they'll stop coming.  

My grasp of the economics is slim, but maybe it would cost less overall to build something in Mexico to employ people where it wouldn't affect US health, education and welfare.  And surely a formal guest worker program would help.  Except that a formal guest worker program would probably have some minimum wage provisions so employers (like my former lawn guy) would still prefer illegals...  Maybe we should just make Mexico a state???   Greater minds than mine need to solve this problem.

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#47 Lin731

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 02:08 PM

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Preach it! Good data as well. How about a new program for the terminally unemployed - build a wall between Mexico and the US! Or maybe a very long canal.... OK, I know it isn't that simple and the issue is very, very complicated, but somehow we have to stop employers from hiring these people so they'll stop coming.

There is so much technology available to watch huge sections of land minus tons of manpower (look at Area 51) They have motions sensors up the ying yang for miles and miles. If a jack rabbit farts, they know about it. So there's no Earthly reason why we can't police our borders effectively if we had the will to do it. The will isn't there and won't be there as long as Business interests control the agenda based on campaign funding. It's a sweet deal for them, they get to not only not pay a minimum wage or worry about paying for healthcare costs, Unemployment insurance, workmens comp...They also get to stick us with the bill for funding our own job losses and paying for their workers healthcare, education, housing etc...It disgusts me beyond my ability to properly express it.
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#48 eloisel

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 02:24 PM

Those are good points, too.  So, the question is how to get "big business" from using an illegal labor pool?  Maybe boycotting any company that uses illegal labor?  It doesn't matter how cheap the labor pool is if the product isn't getting sold.

#49 Lin731

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 02:30 PM

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Those are good points, too. So, the question is how to get "big business" from using an illegal labor pool? Maybe boycotting any company that uses illegal labor? It doesn't matter how cheap the labor pool is if the product isn't getting sold.

This is true but the problem is how do you know which ones to boycott since the workers are by defination "undocumented"? It might be easier to have political campaigns financed from the general fund and free air time made manditory by the networks (not for smarmy political ads but for debates). But it would have to be ALL networks carrying the debates (cable included) so that no one is getting hosed by having to carry it while the Cable channels run alternative programing. I swear, the older I get the more I believe we could fix a hige chunk of what's wrong with this country by cutting off campaign funding from outside sources.
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#50 maryavatar

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 02:38 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that article doesn't say that the majority is now Hispanic, it says that the majority of people registered are not white, which isn't the same thing.  Say you have a population that's 45% white, 10% black, 35% Hispanic and 5% other.  It still has a white majority.  You can't divide people into white and not white.  Hell, I object to people who assume 'white' is a race, it's not, it's merely a description of skin colour.
"When God made the arse, he didn't say, 'Hey, it's just your basic hinge, let's knock off early.' He said, 'Behold ye angels, I have created the arse. Throughout the ages to come, men and women shall grab hold of these, and shout my name.'"

#51 eloisel

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 03:31 PM

Lin731, on Aug 15 2005, 07:30 PM, said:

Quote

Those are good points, too. So, the question is how to get "big business" from using an illegal labor pool? Maybe boycotting any company that uses illegal labor? It doesn't matter how cheap the labor pool is if the product isn't getting sold.

This is true but the problem is how do you know which ones to boycott since the workers are by defination "undocumented"? It might be easier to have political campaigns financed from the general fund and free air time made manditory by the networks (not for smarmy political ads but for debates). But it would have to be ALL networks carrying the debates (cable included) so that no one is getting hosed by having to carry it while the Cable channels run alternative programing. I swear, the older I get the more I believe we could fix a hige chunk of what's wrong with this country by cutting off campaign funding from outside sources.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would certainly improve if special interest groups and personal fortunes didn't have such a play in it, with qualified persons being able to run instead of only those that can afford to do so.  I'd like to see some better qualifications just so a person could run for President too.  It is a job after all.  If there isn't such a thing already, it might be a good idea to have a school to educate our leaders to actually be good leaders - everything from local mayors right up to Presidents.  Start them up from grade school - test them for the brightest, then fill them up with the skills they'll need as a leader.  Of course, problems in finding the brightest would be difficult.  A bright kid might get overlooked because he/she didn't have the same access to education as another kid.  Would have to fix the general education system first.

Back to post, you are right.  The first problem would be identifying who is using illegal labor pools.  I've never had a job where I didn't have to provide my social security number and ID.  Maybe gov't has to get more proactive about inspecting businesses and checking the SSNs and ID against the workers they find on job sites.  I know this is eroding our freedoms somewhat, however, loss of jobs to an illegal workforce is eroding  the economy which affects almost everything and all of us.  What good is being free if one can't support one's self?

While the "white" population might still be the largest group, in certain issues the minorities will always come out on top.  For example, in Equal Employment Opportunity, given that all things are equal - education, experience, ability - then the employer practicing EEO will hire the minority.  In the past, that has been pretty successful in balancing the labor pool.  However, if the largest portion of the labor pool is minority, then the scales are tipped out of balance again with the whites, specifically white males, being at the disadvantage.  While to some that may seem fair because specifically white males had the upper hand for so long, that is unproductive thinking.  Instead of solving the problems it just shifts the problems to a different segment of the population.

#52 Themis

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:02 PM

maryavatar, on Aug 15 2005, 07:38 PM, said:

Hell, I object to people who assume 'white' is a race, it's not, it's merely a description of skin colour.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


We went into this a while back in another thread.  "White" seems to be the current form of "Caucasian," which is a race - or it used to be.  But that includes Hispanic.  So maybe what they're trying to say is that the majority is no longer WASP.

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#53 Cardie

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:06 PM

I suppose what I object to the most is the assumption that non-English-speaking Hispanics are "refusing" to learn English.  I think the exploitation of the undocumented is creating a situation in which they can't or don't learn English for a variety of reasons.  I would imagine that some employers discourage the gaining of lots of English competency for the fear that workers will start reading about how badly they are being treated vs. legals.

Of course, I have never encountered Hispanic workers who couldn't understand a simple request from me, so that may be why I can't grasp others' frustrations.  I did live in LA for four years and never saw this phenomenon.

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#54 eloisel

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:12 PM

I have a story about California.  On my way to the place I would end up in, I was robbed.  Had to fill out a form regarding my stolen property.  For some reason, this office only had one form left.  An Asian woman had to translate the form written in Spanish for me.

#55 maryavatar

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 04:53 PM

Themis, on Aug 15 2005, 10:02 PM, said:

maryavatar, on Aug 15 2005, 07:38 PM, said:

Hell, I object to people who assume 'white' is a race, it's not, it's merely a description of skin colour.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


We went into this a while back in another thread.  "White" seems to be the current form of "Caucasian," which is a race - or it used to be.  But that includes Hispanic.  So maybe what they're trying to say is that the majority is no longer WASP.

Themis

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm a Celt, and if someone asked me my race, I wouldn't say white or Caucasian.  I'm decended from Caucasians but, to me, it's a label only used by historians and American cop shows (and I assume American police).
"When God made the arse, he didn't say, 'Hey, it's just your basic hinge, let's knock off early.' He said, 'Behold ye angels, I have created the arse. Throughout the ages to come, men and women shall grab hold of these, and shout my name.'"

#56 Themis

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 05:07 PM

maryavatar, on Aug 15 2005, 09:53 PM, said:

I'm a Celt, and if someone asked me my race, I wouldn't say white or Caucasian.  I'm decended from Caucasians but, to me, it's a label only used by historians and American cop shows (and I assume American police).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'm almost 60 and was schooled in the races being Caucasian, Negroid, Pacific Island, Oriental, and various others.  I've forgotten what that thread ended up with as a current politically correct list, or maybe it decided there were no more "races."  All I know is that when I have to fill it in on a form, I'll check Caucasian (being of English/Scottish decent) or "white" depending on what's on the form.  Or if I'm feeling persnickity and "African-American" is listed as a choice, I'll put down "European-American" in "other"...

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#57 maryavatar

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Posted 15 August 2005 - 05:40 PM

My cousin is having problems with the enrolement form for her daughter's nursery place.  The Nursery insists that 'Middle Eastern/Muslim' has to be checked, despite the fact that she's only one quarter Iranian and three quarters Scottish.  They won't even allow 'Mixed Race' because that box is for children with one white parent and one Afro-Carribean parent.

It's idiotic: she and my youngest daughter (100% pasty pale Celt) are almost identical, she's never had any contact with the Iranian side of the family, and she was Christened into the Church of Scotland.  :wacko:
"When God made the arse, he didn't say, 'Hey, it's just your basic hinge, let's knock off early.' He said, 'Behold ye angels, I have created the arse. Throughout the ages to come, men and women shall grab hold of these, and shout my name.'"

#58 Shoshana

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 10:11 AM

^That's kinda peculiar. Muslim is a religion - not a race. There are Christian Middle Easterners, Jewish Middle Easterners too. And Middle East is just where someone's living - it's not a race ... and even if one was to think 'Arab' is a race, Iranians that I've known always say they're not Arab... they're Iranian, or Persian. (I've mostly heard Persian). She wouldn't be considered 'mixed race' in the US (my whole experience) because ... she isn't.

It's like they would put down "North American/Christian" if the child had one grandparent from the US, Canada or Mexico ...

On top of everything else, what would be on the child's passport if she had one... I'd think it would be a UK passport with however the gov't signifies that the girl is from Scotland in particular...

Just my 2 cents. Hope they get that sorted out quickly.

#59 QueenTiye

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 10:21 AM

maryavatar, on Aug 15 2005, 06:40 PM, said:

My cousin is having problems with the enrolement form for her daughter's nursery place.  The Nursery insists that 'Middle Eastern/Muslim' has to be checked, despite the fact that she's only one quarter Iranian and three quarters Scottish.  They won't even allow 'Mixed Race' because that box is for children with one white parent and one Afro-Carribean parent.

It's idiotic: she and my youngest daughter (100% pasty pale Celt) are almost identical, she's never had any contact with the Iranian side of the family, and she was Christened into the Church of Scotland.  :wacko:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Not only is it idiotic, its unfair.  I think people ought to be able to self-identify if we have to have these labels.

I've been thinking about the "African-American, Native-American" thing.  It IS racist.  Only, it feels really awkward to be defending the usage of the term by minorities when it wasn't the minorities who imposed it in the first place.  For instance - African-Americans would long have been glad to be Americans just like anyone else.  It isn't our fault that the distinction of skin color and continent of origin became a reason to enslave us - and we are still digging our way past that legacy today.  So if anyone wants to do away with these labels - I'm all for it.  Lets do away with it altogether.  It could be a grand experiment - no census forms, no "EO" questionaires, no affirmative action.  As a member of a minority group, the prospects scare me - not because I don't want to live in a colorblind society - but because I never have - and suddenly there would be no way to know or document the problems people with brown skin face.  BUT... I'd be willing - because maybe NOT having race as a marker can let us just call unfair treatment unfair treatment, and punish it accordingly - no race as an issue at all.  I'd be willing.

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#60 Themis

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Posted 16 August 2005 - 11:06 AM

The main problem with eliminating all racial or ethnic data, as I see it, is medical, as there are enough studies to link particular diseases to particular races or ethnic groups.  Some of that is due to where people live or their economic circumstances, but some is due to racial genetic factors (sickel cell, for instance...).  

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