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Katrina Stupid Assumption Awards

Katrina Top News 2005 Homeland Security FEMA.Failure

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#21 G1223

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 04:52 PM

Yeah why did he not have the hospital ship in harms way so the hurricane could sink it and take all those doctors and supplies to the bottom of the gulf.


I remember people asking why we had no RO/RO ships loaded with supplies in the gulf was because this is a type five Hurricane it is the top of the charts. And we had no clue as to destination till it ifnished making landfall. This monster could well have turned around and ripped up even more of the coast or even headed back into the gulf to refill and then smack down somewhere else.

So even having those ships is going to take time and effort to have ready. Because this monster could have skidded along the atlantic coast and taken out the fleet while in harbor or out at sea.

It takes time to get the ships set up proprerly. These are warships that might well have been set up to head for the Persian Gulf rather than the Gulf of Mexico and they needed to change out the load system for this new mission.

But hey lets cuss and scream at the folks who have to do the hard work while we sit our safe comfortable chairs.

As to the Red Cross this might a request that they not send in helicopters shot the gun happy looters will stop shooting at them. Who is to blame for the looters? I'd start with the local and state authorites as they were Johnny on the spot. They have held back taking action while waiting for the Feds to step in.

As a Midwesterner I know that My state does not wait after a Tornado tears up half of a city they get right to fixing the damage. Or is this just a sign that the south's laid back attitude was alive and well. Because that is what happened.

We have Cities in the US sending the Firemen they can spare (They have to be ready here for fires and other disasters) I hear that San Diego sent one of it's three rescue teams to the area.

So who is worthy of the Award I'd give it to the folks thinking this was going to a "poof" fixed problem like replacing a lightbulb. This is something that isgoing to take the next few years if not a decade to fix. I'd recommend the award be shared by those who are doing the damm best to complain but not bring aid in with them.

When did any of the media rolling with Water as well as their cameras? I know they have the cameras but where is their helping hand? Oh wait it had a camera or a mic to stick in the face of someone.
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#22 Spectacles

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 04:55 PM

Delvo, on Sep 3 2005, 04:46 PM, said:

It's not a stupid assumption. It's a fact. People DO do stupid things if you give them an opportunity to, and making anything easier or less painful to do WILL result in people doing more of it, and keeping that in mind IS a part of any emergency response. For example, with forest fires where there are roads closed, if you don't man the closing points, you can count on people driving past the signs even though they can see nothing but smoke (except maybe flames) themselves. And obviously more would do so still, if you made it easier or seemingly less risky by stocking smoke masks and cases of water bottles for them right behind the "road closed" signs. When a building has a scheduled demolition, you try to hold people back at a safe distance with fences, signs, and a police presence; you don't make it easier and nominally safer for them to stand too close by handing them hardhats and a warning to be careful. Why? Because they'd take it and go stand right under the thing. That's just the way it goes.

We already know that people want so much to be in New Orleans or their favorite neighborhood of it that they stayed and/or are talking about rebuilding and going right back. Those who would have wanted to do that have had a choice to make, as to whether or not it's worth the risks and drawbacks. If you reduce the risks and drawbacks and make staying or going back easier, you will sway the decisions of some people who otherwise would decide against it precisely because such services are not provided, but would like to stay/return if they were. That's just the way it goes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well I had not considered that logic. Someone better call whoever is distributing water and food right now to the ones they can reach and tell them to quit! Otherwise those people will just stay there and die in foul waters and rodent-and-waste-infested streets with no sanitation and no electricity. Anyone who isn't fit enough to walk out of the city can just die and thin the herd. But then, like Kevin, I've heard that people who do make it to the city's edge are being met by military and turned around. Then I'm sure there's some logical reason for that as well.

Sorry. I don't get it. And I don't mean to sound snippy at you personally, Delvo. I'm just tired of watching people struggle to live all week.
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#23 Hibblette

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 05:11 PM

I'm tired of the excuses.

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#24 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 05:40 PM

eloisel, on Sep 3 2005, 12:37 PM, said:

Have no ships arrived yet?
The Navy had the USS Bataan standing by in hurricane avoidance maneuvering in the Gulf of Mexico before the storm hit New Orleans.  Even a LHD canít ride out a Cat 5 storm at sea without taking major damage to the ship and more importantly her aircraft.  So more than likely Bataan stood out way clear of the storm picked up the extra medical staff she has onboard and then hightailed it in behind the storm.  Her helicopters were among the first that was pulling people off of the buildings they were trapped on.  

Of course the media has neglected to mention the Bataan.

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 03 September 2005 - 05:40 PM.

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#25 MuseZack

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 05:48 PM

CJ AEGIS, on Sep 3 2005, 10:40 PM, said:

eloisel, on Sep 3 2005, 12:37 PM, said:

Have no ships arrived yet?
The Navy had the USS Bataan standing by in hurricane avoidance maneuvering in the Gulf of Mexico before the storm hit New Orleans.  Even a LHD canít ride out a Cat 5 storm at sea without taking major damage to the ship and more importantly her aircraft.  So more than likely Bataan stood out way clear of the storm picked up the extra medical staff she has onboard and then hightailed it in behind the storm.  Her helicopters were among the first that was pulling people off of the buildings they were trapped on.  

Of course the media has neglected to mention the Bataan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


http://home.hamptonr...=185673&tref=po

http://www.macon.com...on/12554907.htm

http://www.wvec.com/...s.15c93e7b.html

http://www.boston.co...elief_supplies/
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#26 emsparks

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 06:02 PM

What I want to know is why when Katrina crossed the Florida panhandle, and entered 90-degree water didnít the government start provisioning an MEU, Hospital ship, and a container ship of relief supplies. If they had done that they could have landed supplies at land fall with in 24 hours.

I was talking to a Florida resident friend of mine who reminded me that there isnít a Gulf coast resident who watches the weather, that didnít know that the Gulf was too dammed hot and that kind of heat would grow the storm into a monster.

I have said this before there should be at least two MEUís within a dayís low speed steaming distance of the gulf during Hurricane season. A single container ship can carry a hell of a lot of relief supplies.
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#27 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 06:05 PM

G1223, on Sep 3 2005, 04:52 PM, said:

It takes time to get the ships set up proprerly. These are warships that might well have been set up to head for the Persian Gulf rather than the Gulf of Mexico and they needed to change out the load system for this new mission.

Well the mercy, I think that's the ship's name, isn't a warhip, but she looks as heavy as one. These warships are extremely heavy. Even a F5 would have a hard time wrecking it.


Quote

We have Cities in the US sending the Firemen they can spare (They have to be ready here for fires and other disasters) I hear that San Diego sent one of it's three rescue teams to the area.

Lets just hope Fema lets them in. It was reported on MSNBC that Chicago told Fema they had hundred of aide helpers and trucks ready, all just waiting for the word from Fema. The word came: Send only ONE truck.

Quote

When did any of the media rolling with Water as well as their cameras? I know they have the cameras but where is their helping hand? Oh wait it had a camera or a mic to stick in the face of someone.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The only reporter I saw giving water, food, ect was Joe Scarborough. Granted he could've been doing it as a photo op...but my impression was that he was tried of waiting for the Feds and Fema, who obviously weren't where they needed to be. Aside from that, though, you DO have an excellent point about the reporters not helping.
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#28 Hibblette

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 06:14 PM

The reporters are doing things.

They may not even do it for the cameras.

There is the story of one of the reporters hailing a rescue truck down to help with a baby that was 5 days old.

The reporters are doing their job by reporting what's going on.  They have been right down in the middle of it all and seen it.  That's what being a reporter is all about.
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#29 emsparks

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 06:55 PM

I donít know if you noticed, but reporters are locating people and bodies so that the authorities can take the appropriate action.

The pool helicopter a small three man craft along with spotting people and fires has been in fact dropping water but the canít carry very much.
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#30 G1223

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 06:59 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Sep 3 2005, 11:05 PM, said:

Well the mercy, I think that's the ship's name, isn't a warhip, but she looks as heavy as one. These warships are extremely heavy. Even a F5 would have a hard time wrecking it.


You mean it weighs more than the oil platform that was driven 60 miles to shore from it's off shore location.With those sea anchors and other means of keeping it on the spot are pretty impressive as well.
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#31 emsparks

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 07:12 PM

G1223, on Sep 3 2005, 07:59 PM, said:

LORD of the SWORD, on Sep 3 2005, 11:05 PM, said:

Well the mercy, I think that's the ship's name, isn't a warhip, but she looks as heavy as one. These warships are extremely heavy. Even a F5 would have a hard time wrecking it.


You mean it weighs more than the oil platform that was driven 60 miles to shore from it's off shore location.With those sea anchors and other means of keeping it on the spot are pretty impressive as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


G
Youíre right you don't mess with a tropical storm let alone a Hurricane.

However steaming outside the radius of the storm relife ships could have shadowed the storm at a safe distance to the point of landfall.

Edited by emsparks, 03 September 2005 - 07:13 PM.

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#32 G1223

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 07:17 PM

And as a West Pac navy man told me after the typhon swept over his formation twice first from the north and then the south as the Storm changed direction . Because that is what can happen. Also like Galveston we can have it hit the area again. While the smart thing to do is wait it out and send the major ships into the area afterwards.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

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#33 eloisel

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 07:20 PM

Is anybody keeping a timeline on when things are happening?  

I keep hearing this and that isn't happening, offers of aid from other countries aren't accepted, ships aren't arriving, etc... but I think at least some of that is days old news.

Also, when did the levee(s) break?  I remember hearing at one point the relief that NO wasn't as badly damaged from the storm as expected, then the levee(s) broke and the water poured in.  Was that Tuesday or Monday?

#34 DWF

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 07:43 PM

eloisel, on Sep 3 2005, 01:37 PM, said:

Have no ships arrived yet?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



http://news.yahoo.co...nival_ships_hk3

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#35 MuseZack

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:06 PM

BTW, the Navy has some lovely and inspiring photos from relief operations in the Gulf States at their Eye on the Fleet site.


http://www.news.navy..._photos_top.asp

I found this image particularly moving:

http://www.news.navy...le.asp?id=27651
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#36 Spectacles

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:14 PM

Quote

Eloisel: Also, when did the levee(s) break? I remember hearing at one point the relief that NO wasn't as badly damaged from the storm as expected, then the levee(s) broke and the water poured in. Was that Tuesday or Monday?


At first, when the storm hit on Monday, it looked like New Orleans had been spared the worst case scenario, but it still took a hard hit. The Gulf Coast from Slidell to Gulfport and Biloxi was almost obliterated and was an immediate and serious disaster.

The levees failed overnight on Mon-Tues.  By Tuesday morning, the mayor announced that 80% of New Olreans was under water.

By Wednesday evening, people along the Gulf Coast and in New Orleans were wondering where the hell the relief was. Some relief was trickling into the Mississippi Coast, but it wasn't reaching very many people at all and most I saw interviewed were not happy people. They were hungry, thirsty, homeless, wounded. When Anderson Cooper asked Michael Brown where FEMA was on Wednesday, he said the trucks were in Mississippi and he'd check on why they weren't down there yet.

In New Orleans, the Coast Guard had begun helicopter and boat rescues by late Tuesday night. But they hardly could provide the numbers. Those rescues continued around the clock as they did their damnedest.

By Thursday, a bit more help had arrived along the Gulf Coast. New Orleans--zip.

Finally, yesterday, Friday, relief convoys begin entering New Orleans.

Today, Saturday, more substantial rescue operations are underway in New Orleans, but there are still many people stuck in attics and upper floors of their flooded homes--many elderly and invalid. But at least today everyone was out of the Superdome and they were finally evacuating the crowd on the Interstate (where they had been depositing people plucked out of the flood since Tuesday) and the Convention Center. People died at those locations waiting for someone to come and take them out of there. And the patients at Charity Hospital were finally evacuated today, the ones who the very courageous staff managed to keep alive with no food since Wednesday, and no water, no electricity, no sanitation since Monday night. Those doctors and nurses deserve medals and a ticker tape parade.

When all is said and done, the death count is going to be staggering. What's worse, many of those people could have been saved if the relief and rescue operations had begun in earnest by Tuesday along the Gulf, Wednesday morning in New Orleans--which I think are reasonable expectations. Why so many languished with no aid for so long is unfathomable to me.
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#37 D'Monix

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:19 PM

got nothin but respect for the helicopter rescue crews in this, the SARs are getting their workout time.

So far i've seen Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard rescue choppers at work.  When Pres. Bush landed for his intial briefing there was a line of Super Jollies on the tarmac, dunno if those monsters have been deployed yet, but they've been doing SAR work since vietnam in them and they got the fuel and load capacity to hang around and snag quite a few people.

Edited by D'Monix, 03 September 2005 - 08:22 PM.


#38 Cait

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:20 PM

Spectacles, on Sep 3 2005, 06:14 PM, said:

In New Orleans, the Coast Guard had begun helicopter and boat rescues by late Tuesday night. But they hardly could provide the numbers. Those rescues continued around the clock as they did their damnedest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


God bless those Coasties.  They were on the spot, and doing not only thier job, but their best!

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#39 Hibblette

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:30 PM

Right they should have been there by Tuesday.

The Military (and not the Texas National Guard) but the Military of 1900 were in Galveston the next day after that disaster.  And we are talking about before the Automobile age.
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#40 G1223

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Posted 03 September 2005 - 08:48 PM

Yeah they were at Fort Sam Houston which is dang near Houston Texas which is near Galveston.


That would like saying the Army was in Louisville that very day if folks forgot that there is a thing called Fort Knox in the suburbs of the city.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.



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