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Using the Superdome as a shelter....

Natural Disasters Hurricane Katrina 2005 New Orleans Superdome Shelter

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#21 Anarch

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 01:40 PM

His family and something like 100 other people, yeah.

#22 waterpanther

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 01:57 PM

One of those teenagers who wasn't whacked enough by his parents, presumably.  . .to go stealing a bus like that.   :lol:

Seriously, I hope this kid gets a medal.  More to the point, I hope some college or philanthopic outfit offers him a full scholarship and a job afterwards.
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#23 HubcapDave

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 02:00 PM

waterpanther, on Sep 4 2005, 11:57 AM, said:

One of those teenagers who wasn't whacked enough by his parents, presumably.  . .to go stealing a bus like that.   :lol:

Seriously, I hope this kid gets a medal.  More to the point, I hope some college or philanthopic outfit offers him a full scholarship and a job afterwards.

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One of those rare moments when you and I agree.

#24 Hibblette

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 02:17 PM

What a guy!

:wideeyed:

WP-you're a stinker. :love:

Actually having an 18 year old I can pretty much tell you that an 18year old boy who loves to play all those video games with driving involved-they can figure out how to drive anything.
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#25 waterpanther

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 02:23 PM

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WP-you're a stinker.†

I try, Hiblette.  I try.   :blush:

I "stole" my cousin's motorscooter when I was seven and tooled around Tulia, TX for an hour or so without difficulty.  It's all in the motivation.

Edited by waterpanther, 04 September 2005 - 02:25 PM.

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#26 Peridot

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 07:28 PM

offworlder, on Sep 3 2005, 10:16 PM, said:

The big question is: if you don't pick the dome, just where do you tell the people who chose not to leave or couldn't leave... to try to head over to? eh? they couldn't go south into the devastation, they couldn't go north into the Lake... and they by events wound up cut off from going west toward Metarie ... so where could they pick besides the dome? They just should have had people there even if they couldn't get supplies, and plan (where were all the plans from all the years along knowing that this would come eventually?) for chopper airlifts for support.

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It sounds like there are numerous additional complications to evacuating New Orleans besides the number of people without vehicles.  :blink:  

Regarding where they could pick besides the dome, though---that's why I'm asking these questions.  I've never been in New Orleans, so it's hard for me to envision what other options there might have been, except to get the people out of there.


Solovet, on Sep 3 2005, 11:35 PM, said:

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How hard would it be to make school buses, city buses, or tour buses into a method of evacuating those without transportation or funds who DO want to leave?
Yup, apparently there were hundreds of buses just standing around in NO while this all happened.  :Oo:

http://junkyardblog...._28.html#004749

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Interesting link.  It does make one wonder why the buses apparently weren't considered. :huh: Though I do think the person who wrote the blog has overestimated how many people could have been moved on each trip; a bus that could carry 66 kids or teens several miles to school might need to carry less than capacity over long distances, to accomodate large adults, injured people who would need to lie down, thus taking up two seats, families with several children, etc.  But still...even at say 50 people per trip, 200 buses could evacuate...stops and counts the zeros....10,000 people.  And then again, it could go the other way---more folks might be loaded in just to get them out of the danger zone.


HubcapDave, on Sep 4 2005, 07:16 PM, said:

I wouldn't expect them to be altruistic. Were I the mayor of NO, I'd see to it that part of their employment contracts state they are expected to do this duty in case of an emergency.

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Or part of someone's contract, in any case?  I know in our area, school bus drivers are often part-time employees; they're retirees in some cases, sometimes moms with school-age kids, etc.  Not the first people you'd pick to do evacuation driving.  

One thing I haven't figured out yet---does anyone know if New Orleans does or does not have a city bus system?  Or is public transport all done by trolley?


Anarch, on Sep 4 2005, 07:40 PM, said:

His family and something like 100 other people, yeah.

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Anarch, do you have a link for this?  The blog mentioned it, but I would like to read more about it.   Gutsy kid, IMO. :thumbs-up:  

Oh, and BTW...Hi!  It's good to see you.  I'd been wondering where you were.... ;)

Peridot

Eeep.....just found the link you already left on my other thread.   :blush:   Oopsie---I read this one first.  Thanks! :)

Edited by Peridot, 04 September 2005 - 07:43 PM.


#27 Natolii

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 10:04 PM

Here's the answer to the Bus situation:

http://hunter.dailyk...9/3/22539/78239

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1.  Compelled evacuation is unprecedented, unlikely to succeed, and unconstitutional, and therefore is probably not allowed, even in a state of emergency.

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Rounding up American citizens and forcing them, probably at gunpoint, onto buses against their will, without specific authorization from a disaster response plan designed by the State and approved by FEMA, violates basic notions of due process.  Under State and Federal law, the Mayor could not do this, or at the very least, the Mayor could not escape personal liability should any of the sick or elderly perish because they were forced onto a bus.  Additionally, the logistics of a forced evacuation are extremely taxing:  who would wield the guns?  Police officers who are understandably very busy on the eve of landfall?  The National Guard which the City has no authority over?  Where and how could you find those who had stayed behind?

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2.  There is no more dangerous place for evacuees during a hurricane than being trapped in a vehicle on an interstate.  The Right made this very argument in criticizing President Clinton's evacuation order for the Carolinas during Hurricane Floyd.  Traffic was gridlocked on the days leading up to landfall.  Had the storm sped up, thousands would have been guaranteed death as the winds and rain tossed the buses around like pinballs.  It's not a question of "take them to higher ground."  Would you then unload them in a rice patty?  Where would they take shelter?  The people would could not afford to leave could not afford to buy a room in the Ramada Inn, which was likely booked anyhow.  And would it have been any safer in the aftermath of the storm?  Even assuming the evacuees survived the storm, how would the National Guard find them, to distribute supplies?  How could you provide security to them unless they are in a centralized location?   What centralized location was there on such short notice?  Sadly, the Superdome was the safest highest ground, and the Mayor did right by providing those unwilling or unable to leave the strongest shelter they could find against the storm.

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Sorry for the long diary, but these arguments sicken me.  Surely there is enough blame to go around in hindsight on all parties, and surely even a perfect FEMA would have faced delays, foul-ups, and difficulties in responding to one of the worst crises in world history.  But that does not absolve FEMA and the Bush Administration for their primary failure to adequately coordinate a response that could have mitigated this disaster and it certainly doesn't excuse the acts of the government which exacerbated the crisis, to wit:

a.   Refusing help when offered or turning away useful help.

b.   Failing to properly fund levee and pump repair in the first place. 

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#28 HubcapDave

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Posted 04 September 2005 - 11:00 PM

The first kos link assumes a forced evacuation. Maybe some people wanted to stay. But I'm certain there's many who would have liked to get the frak outta Dodge, but had no vehicle of their own. Those buses would still have come in handy.



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