Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Just Curious

Human Expressions Culture

  • Please log in to reply
163 replies to this topic

#41 Nick

Nick

    ...

  • Islander
  • 7,130 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:33 PM

[Mod hat on] As you all no doubt have noticed, I've sprinkled spoiler tags throughout this thread as an experiment in a new kind of mod response to putting out fires, partly inspired by Orpheus.

This is way tedious and nigh impossible for a thread that has been going for more than a few hours.  This will probably be the first and last such experiment in a thread. ;)

As always, remember the rule of thumb "keep it about the topics and not your fellow posters" but especially please refrain from:

-Crass comments about a subset of the population and certain kinds of generalizations that are obviously inflammatory.

-Threats to fellow posters in any way shape or form

You all are free to remove the spoiler tags from your posts as you see fit.  but I kindly request that you leave them in place for a few more hours . . . who knows, maybe this thread will get back on track!  Also, don't assume the spoiler tags mean that you specifically have done anything wrong.  Most of them are simply cases where potentially offending material has been re-quoted or paraphrased. [/Mod Hat Off]

(Oh, one more oddity I noticed . . . some of the spoiler tags aren't showing up . . . although once you edit it, the original content is still there . . . )

Edited by Nick, 06 September 2005 - 12:38 PM.


#42 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:33 PM

G1223, on Sep 6 2005, 12:25 PM, said:

The navy ships that wer eon the scene need to have their facilities used.

Realtime satellites with Radar imagary could have been used to set priority areas.

The troops could have been told to shot and post the bodies of looters in public places to discourage the lawlessness. (Which is something the police could/should have done before the FEDS arrived)

While I suspect it has been done structual engineers could check out bridges across the mississippi to amke sure that the trains carrying heavy supplies could roll across without worries of surge damage to their foundations.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


OK, so I take it that you aren't entirely satisfied with the federal response, either.

Look,  I understand our tendency to divide into camps, but it really does neither side any good, especially now. I know that when you read a criticism of the Bush administration written by someone you've had a history with here, your natural tendency would be to dismiss it as another example of "Bush-bashing." But the hard-to-refute facts in this tragedy are that the state, local, and federal governments have failed to perform their most essential function, to protect the people. Wouldn't you agree? There is going to be plenty of finger-pointing--and there should be. There are going to be calls for accountability, and there should be. That doesn't mean that all the anger and the outrage is just another manifestation of "Bush hatred."

Like I said up there, there's knee-jerk Bush-bashing, but there's also knee-jerk Bush-cheerleading. It's not a good time for either.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#43 Anarch

Anarch
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:36 PM

Buckeyes, Zack?  The BUCKEYES?

Good god, man, you're sick.  You need help.  You also need to learn to support a team that knows how to play football.  Step away from the computer, find yourself a quiet place and reflect on your various sins and weakness.  [You're a Buckeye fan, so that's two right there.]  Purge yourself of the evil that infects your soul.  Unclench the buttocks that hold back the biliousness eating at your innards.*  Do the right thing, Zack.  Realize that Ohio State are callow, evil, corrupt, vile, reprehensible -- <looks up at the original post> -- disgusting, hateful, unlikeable, unhappy, displeasing -- <deep breath> -- ridiculous, damned, demonic and generally not-very-nice.

Look within your heart, Zack.  You know it to be true.

And go Wolverines and Badgers ;)

* Go metaphors, huh?

#44 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:36 PM

Psst! Nick? What's wrong with saying "I'm a Southerner..." ?

It ain't like I flew the Stars 'n Bars or nothin'.

;)
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#45 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:36 PM

G1223, on Sep 6 2005, 09:25 AM, said:

The troops could have been told to shot and post the bodies of looters in public places to discourage the lawlessness. (Which is something the police could/should have done before the FEDS arrived)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they posted the bodies, they should have stuck signs on the dead looters, like, stole milk that couldn't be sold anyway for her kids who are still stuck somewhere and have probably starved by now.  Oh wait, that's too long for a sign, isn't it?  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#46 Anarch

Anarch
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:37 PM

Nick said:

-Crass comments about a subset of the population and certain kinds of generalizations that are obviously inflammatory.

Unless they're Ohio State fans.  Then it's all good.  ;)

#47 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:39 PM

Anarch, on Sep 6 2005, 09:37 AM, said:

Nick said:

-Crass comments about a subset of the population and certain kinds of generalizations that are obviously inflammatory.
Unless they're Ohio State fans.  Then it's all good.  ;)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey!  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#48 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:42 PM

G,
Everyone was responsible for what happened in NO, from the local and state levels up to the Feds response. No one is claiming otherwise. I think what they ARE claiming (at least what *I'm* claiming) is that in a natural disaster of this scale, there is NO excuse for the amount of time it took to get into NO. If reporters could get in, if celebrities could bring in food and water to people at the Super Dome...WHY WAS THE FEMA HEAD SAYING HE DIDN"T EVEN KNOW THEY HAD NO FOOD OR WATER? Why weren't ships heading into position before the Hurricane hit, why was aid turned aside? Why was the Red Cross kept out? Why did we have copters with MRE'S and water sitting for day loaded to do while people died of dehydration, living off whatever food they could scounge up. People dying on roof tops and at the Dome waiting for how many days for FEMA to get it's act together? I don't care WHAT party was in charge, I'd be every bit as critical if it was a Dem in the White House. It's inexcusable...PERIOD. Many died in the aftermath due to lack of leadership. Yes the state screwed up but when it comes to a disaster like this, there is no excuse short of incompetence to explain the length of time it took to start dealing with the mess on the Fed level.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#49 emsparks

emsparks
  • Forever Missed
  • 2,426 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:44 PM

Given the number of people that died by dehydration, and starvation, horrible deaths both. I am not going to waste my time arguing with a Bush apologist, rehashing old lies, over this.

There was heavy truck traffic entering New Orleans starting right after the storm ended. Only they weren’t government trucks. And even if that weren’t true a company of combat engineers could have cleared the bridges in less then 24 hours, if they had only gone out and looked at them. The proposition that there was not a passable route into New Orleans right after the storm ended is a bold face lie.
Sparky::

Think!
Question Authority, Authoritatively.

#50 Kimmer

Kimmer
  • Islander
  • 6,388 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:47 PM

eloisel, on Sep 6 2005, 07:36 AM, said:

Just curious, on the daily average, what do you spend most of your time on:

expressing
disgust
hatred
dislike
unhappiness
displeasure

or

looking for ways to
ridicule
judge
condemn
demonize
others?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neither.

Quote

Is a day spent not hating anyone or finding fault with anyone a complete waste of time?
No, it's a day well spent, imo.

I'm learning that I'm happier all the way around if I look for the good side of things. I spent a lot of years looking at the crummy side, regretting decisions I'd made in my life, getting all wound up and telling people off (sometimes nice like, sometimes not) -- and I was miserable. I didn't sleep well, every day was difficult to face, I cried a lot, I was horribly unhappy and I gained a lot of weight because I ate to ease my misery.

Earlier this year I finally reached a point where I've had to start letting it all go. I want to ENJOY my life and the people in it, I want to be at peace in my heart and I want to smile at folks when I pass them on the street. I don't manage it every day in every situation, but I'm working on it. I'm driving Mr. Retired crazy with my new attitude too.  hehehe

Quote

Just curious.
A curious question for you, eloisel. Why did you focus only on the negatives and not give an option for the positive?

Just curious.

HnC - off to pack more boxes

#51 MuseZack

MuseZack

    132nd S.O.C.

  • Demigod
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:50 PM

Anarch, on Sep 6 2005, 05:36 PM, said:

Buckeyes, Zack?  The BUCKEYES?

Good god, man, you're sick.  You need help.  You also need to learn to support a team that knows how to play football.  Step away from the computer, find yourself a quiet place and reflect on your various sins and weakness.  [You're a Buckeye fan, so that's two right there.]  Purge yourself of the evil that infects your soul.  Unclench the buttocks that hold back the biliousness eating at your innards.*  Do the right thing, Zack.  Realize that Ohio State are callow, evil, corrupt, vile, reprehensible -- <looks up at the original post> -- disgusting, hateful, unlikeable, unhappy, displeasing -- <deep breath> -- ridiculous, damned, demonic and generally not-very-nice.

Look within your heart, Zack.  You know it to be true.

And go Wolverines and Badgers ;)

* Go metaphors, huh?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The ghost of Woody Hayes is comin' to smack you upside yo head for that!  There's a reason why Ohio State players used to keep their helmets on during halftime, remember?
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#52 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:51 PM

HookandCrook, on Sep 6 2005, 10:47 AM, said:

A curious question for you, eloisel. Why did you focus only on the negatives and not give an option for the positive?

Just curious.

HnC - off to pack more boxes

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Because the thread itself was meant to inflame.  It's not surprising that it has become inflamatory.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#53 Elara

Elara

    Feel the silence of the moonlight.

  • Watchdog
  • 2,905 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:53 PM

G1223, on Sep 6 2005, 12:25 PM, said:

The troops could have been told to shot and post the bodies of looters in public places to discourage the lawlessness. (Which is something the police could/should have done before the FEDS arrived)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


~.~ Deciding not to comment on morbid idea of posting the bodies, I will instead ask a question.

How, in all the chaos, do you know who is a looter? The color of their skin? Their age? Sex? What, do their eyes shift funny? I want to know.

Now, obviously if someone shoots at you, you return fire, but otherwise, how do you know?
El
~ blue crystal glows, the dark side unseen, sparkles in scant light, from sun to planet, to me in between ~


I want a job in HRC's "shadow" cabinet. Good pay, really easy hours, lots of time off. Can't go wrong.

"You have a fair and valid point here. I've pointed out, numerous times, that the Left's or Democrats always cry "Racist" whenever someone disagrees with them. I failed to realize that the Right or Republicans do the same thing with "Liberal"." ~ LotS

#54 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:55 PM

I see I got spoilered, but I'll just say this much - after what I've seen and been through this week, and after hearing that moronic statement, I haven't said anything I'm the least bit sorry for.   So if being spoilered means I'm supposed to apologize to somebody, don't hold your breath.  

Just clarifyin'.  

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#55 Anarch

Anarch
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 12:56 PM

MuseZack, on Sep 6 2005, 05:50 PM, said:

The ghost of Woody Hayes is comin' to smack you upside yo head for that!  There's a reason why Ohio State players used to keep their helmets on during halftime, remember?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Bo Schembeckler, whose name I can never spell, will rise from the dead to protect me!  And Barry Alvarez will be along shortly to kick that scrawny butt of yours back to Ohio where it belongs!  And yes, I remember (dimly) Woody.  Or rather, I remember my parents recounting to me in hushed tones the stories of his eeeeeeeevil...

BTW, what are the OSU football chants like?  Up here in Wisconsin they get pretty, um, graphic.  One of my favorites, which I screamed multiple times on Saturday, is actually related to this thread...

...

..."The ref beats his wife!  The ref beats his wife!"

Good times, y'all.  Good times.

#56 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:09 PM

MuseZack, on Sep 6 2005, 09:50 AM, said:

The ghost of Woody Hayes is comin' to smack you upside yo head for that!  There's a reason why Ohio State players used to keep their helmets on during halftime, remember?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, my brother went out of state to play college ball.  :p  

My ex-f-i-l, a Michigan fan, served with Woody during WWII, so I heard some stuff.  :rolleyes:  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#57 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:11 PM

Zwolf666, on Sep 6 2005, 01:21 PM, said:

***** Actually, I spend most of my time making the world safe for kittens and puppies, spreading joy and happiness, and watching re-runs of Combat!   But, I try to pencil in a few minutes each day for hatefulness and spite, just to try to keep up.  But I don't have to tell you that: you obviously understand how important such things are.  :)

Actually, I think eloisel was probably feeling genuinely discouraged by the spate of negativity, probably both here and in the news.  Aren't we all?  In light of probably ten thousand people dead in New Orleans, it is really upsetting that on top of all of that and the horror of watching it - I can understand her frustration.  I happen to believe that her frustration existed much earlier.  And while the current pattern of negativism seems to be anti-conservative/republican/bush... I've seen eloisel challenge the a priori assumptions made by both sides of the divide with her "but is it true" question... which I think was a brilliant strategy to analyse the actual ideas instead of maligning anybody for having the opinion, or for having the opinion and being on the wrong side of the fence.


Quote

Quote

Is a day spent not hating anyone or finding fault with anyone a complete waste of time?

******* Not a complete waste of time, no.  I also enjoy spending my time replying to posts that find fault with others for finding fault with others.  Now that's time well spent!

And point well taken... but I still agree with her sentiment.  

I once proposed a "Good News Forum."  Most people felt it was redundant to existing forums.  Some felt that it would be boring - that debate and spirited clashes just are inherently more fun.  Well - I think eloisel's post speaks to that... and I think if we really wanted to... we could change that.  In fact.... :sneaky:

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#58 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:14 PM

Quote

Bo Schembeckler, whose name I can never spell, will rise from the dead to protect me! And Barry Alvarez will be along shortly to kick that scrawny butt of yours back to Ohio where it belongs! And yes, I remember (dimly) Woody. Or rather, I remember my parents recounting to me in hushed tones the stories of his eeeeeeeevil...


Ummm...thing is (unless I'm mistaken) Bo is still alive and well, which means you'd have to kill him first so his ghost could wup on Woody! :D
Posted Image
Posted Image

#59 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:18 PM

Hey, Nick!  I'm a Southerner, too!  Probably more geographically southern than anybody else on this thread.  (Except in Mexico, where I'm a nortena.)  

I'm Spartacus!  G'wan, edit me!   :lol: I dare ya!   :hehe:

Doble perro amarillo dare ya!   :p


Edited as a precaution to note, for anyone who needs it explained, which I'm fully aware does not include Nick:  Es todo un chigando chiste.   It's an effin' joke.

Edited by waterpanther, 06 September 2005 - 01:21 PM.

Posted Image

#60 MuseZack

MuseZack

    132nd S.O.C.

  • Demigod
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:19 PM

QT, I appreciate the sentiment, I really do, but in my non-Buckeyes response I tried to explain why in some circumstances, anger and yes, even pointing the finger of blame, are the appropriate responses.  I love the fact that there were a million individual acts of kindness during and after the hurricane, and think we should celebrate our successes as well as our failures, but in the midst of the biggest national tragedy of our lifetimes, always looking on the bright side of life (to paraphrase Monty Python) just doesn't cut it, IMHO.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Human Expressions, Culture

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users