Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Just Curious

Human Expressions Culture

  • Please log in to reply
163 replies to this topic

#61 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:34 PM

MuseZack, on Sep 6 2005, 02:19 PM, said:

QT, I appreciate the sentiment, I really do, but in my non-Buckeyes response I tried to explain why in some circumstances, anger and yes, even pointing the finger of blame, are the appropriate responses.  I love the fact that there were a million individual acts of kindness during and after the hurricane, and think we should celebrate our successes as well as our failures, but in the midst of the biggest national tragedy of our lifetimes, always looking on the bright side of life (to paraphrase Monty Python) just doesn't cut it, IMHO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I don't disagree.  Sometimes we really do have to respond appropriately to the situation at hand, and I do even agree that sometimes we have to offer criticism of others.  BUT...

It does seem to me that the media/news/sales machine harps on negativity and it does seem to me that they do so because by and large people find that more interesting - and continue to both digest and spew it regularly.

I was thinking about Barbara Bush's "Beautiful Mind" comments that Nick quoted for me... I appreciate her point of view... and I appreciate her own recognition of her point of view being a little bit petty.  But I really don't think she's wrong.  The person who cares MOST about a soldier in a body bag is that soldier's friends and family.  Everyone else is rubbernecking.  There's a side of us that feels like we SHOULD look and care and be concerned, but there's a practical reality that tells us that ultimately - all we are doing is selling advertisements at the expense of someone else's misery.  Every tidbit of misery, stupidity, failure and the like that we can find in the media we can digest right here in the OT, and around our coffee coolers, and while sipping Starbucks, or whatever... it doesn't make the misery any less, it doesn't make the stupid any smarter, and doesn't fix the failure.  It just gives us something to talk about.

I KNOW that we have a right and obligation to look at the truth of things, hold our elected officials accountable, etc.  But there's another side of it - and it doesn't have anything to do with looking on the brighter side of life.

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#62 MuseZack

MuseZack

    132nd S.O.C.

  • Demigod
  • 5,432 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:40 PM

^^^

If I understand what you're getting at, QT, it's that OT can be a venue to engage in outrage junkiedom, if you'll pardon the weird phrase.  That is no doubt true.  And bitching on the Internet is no substitute for actually getting out there and trying to change things and help make a difference.  But right now, in the middle of a genuine outrage and disaster-- whoever you want to blame for it-- seems a weird time to complain about negativity.  A lot of people are upset by what's happened and is continuing to happen in the Gulf States, and OT is a good place to vent.  Again, IMHO.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#63 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:46 PM

Thanks Zack.  Again... I don't disagree.  And yes - that's what I'm getting at.  I'm only being a little defensive on eloisel's behalf, because I do think her sentiments were sincere.  People react very differently to stress - and right now, eloisel's overwhelmed.  She's got a right too.

Me - I just got a notice in the mail that says that NJ is offering free counselling services for 9/11 survivors.  NY was offering them for a long time, but apparently NJ was underserved in this regard.  I didn't know that because I never thought about having any need for such... this Katrina tragedy has suddenly made me think that after all, maybe I'm not quite over all the stuff from 9/11.  Years later.  So ... who knows really how things affect people?

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#64 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:47 PM

MuseZack, on Sep 6 2005, 12:38 PM, said:

BUCKEYES RULE!!!

:devil:

Sorry, just trying to lighten the mood for a moment.  You can take the boy out of Columbus, but, well, you know the rest...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Buckeyes do rule, so when you're coming to Marcon?  :cool:
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#65 waterpanther

waterpanther
  • Islander
  • 1,944 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:48 PM

Quote

The troops could have been told to shot and post the bodies of looters in public places to discourage the lawlessness. (Which is something the police could/should have done before the FEDS arrived)

I think Iran does that.  Perhaps you might be happier somewhere that doesn't have a Bill of Rights or a presumption of innocence built into its laws.  

And without quoting the offending generality, G, you do realize that those same Southerners you find so lacking largely voted for Bush?
Posted Image

#66 emsparks

emsparks
  • Forever Missed
  • 2,426 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 01:50 PM

Nonny, on Sep 6 2005, 01:32 PM, said:

emsparks, on Sep 6 2005, 09:22 AM, said:

School Buses?

Two points;

1. From the pictures I saw the buses of which you speak where under water. AND the water hit fast once the levee broke there was just no time.

2. Do you have any idea how low the pay of a school bus driver is, who was going to see to the driverís families? Cops and firemen are a lot different and a whole hell of a lot better paid, and very often donít live in the community, where school bus drivers for the most part canít live out side the community. No there would have to been practices and a lot of them, for that Idea to fly. Practices the city, and the school; bus companies most likely couldnít have paid for. No given the resources needed it was DHS responsibility to come up with a mass transportation plan, the city would not have the resources or expertise to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A fifteen year old boy stole one of the schoolbuses and drove himself and a bunch of others to safety.  

Nonny

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Dear Nonny,

An enterprising ladÖ

Obviously there are multiple bus company in New Orleans and all the busses wherenít under water. A picture I saw showed well over twenty five buses under water.
Sparky::

Think!
Question Authority, Authoritatively.

#67 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:02 PM

QueenTiye, on Sep 6 2005, 10:46 AM, said:

Me - I just got a notice in the mail that says that NJ is offering free counselling services for 9/11 survivors.  NY was offering them for a long time, but apparently NJ was underserved in this regard.  I didn't know that because I never thought about having any need for such... this Katrina tragedy has suddenly made me think that after all, maybe I'm not quite over all the stuff from 9/11.  Years later.  So ... who knows really how things affect people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I do.  I am permanently and totally disabled with PTSD, and whatever the cause, the resulting syndrome or disorder is pretty much the same.  So let me say this: anybody, anybody at all who is affected by this terrible tragedy, whether directly or experiencing it second hand, if you find yourself in need of help, please seek and get it.  Needing to talk to somebody about things upsetting you is no shame, but failing to do so is an invitation to longterm problems.  

Take care, Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#68 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:05 PM

emsparks, on Sep 6 2005, 10:50 AM, said:

Nonny, on Sep 6 2005, 01:32 PM, said:

A fifteen year old boy stole one of the schoolbuses and drove himself and a bunch of others to safety. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dear Nonny,

An enterprising ladÖ

Obviously there are multiple bus company in New Orleans and all the busses wherenít under water. A picture I saw showed well over twenty five buses under water.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, isn't he?  :happy:  :happy:  :happy:  I sure hope he doesn't get into trouble for it, and I'm sure happy he didn't get shot!  

Nonny

Edited by Nonny, 06 September 2005 - 02:05 PM.

Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#69 Spectacles

Spectacles
  • Awaiting Authorisation
  • 9,632 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:23 PM

Quote

QT speaking of Eloisel: I think was a brilliant strategy to analyse the actual ideas instead of maligning anybody for having the opinion, or for having the opinion and being on the wrong side of the fence.

I would agree, if that is what Eloisel had been doing. But, respectfully, I have to disagree. I'm much more inclined to agree with Cait's assessment. Eloisel has done her fair share of maligning. I'm thinking specifically of her own attempt to distort the position of and therefore demonize those who are critical of the federal government's response in this thread:

http://www.exisle.ne...56

Quote

If the federal gov't isn't there the minute the volcano erupts to remove the people who did not evacuate, then the rest of America not directly doing anything to actually save any lives - like walking through lava - will demonize those actually putting their a$$ on the line - by actually walking through lava - for not doing it fast enough.

She's entitled to her opinion. And others are entitled to point out that no one here appears to be criticizing the rescue workers, only the decision-makers. Which is what happened.

I will add that I will not back down on this issue: people are justifiably horrified at the sight of people dying while the cavalry is in disarray. They have every right to voice their concerns here. Sure, it ain't "positive," but there are times when outrage is appropriate and tut-tutting that outrage is inappropriate. I'd say this counts as one of those times.

Sometimes I've been cowed by pleas to "be nice" over the Iraq War, over the economy, over Plamegate, but there is no way on earth I'm going to be yanked back on this one. Our government's response to the tragedy in New Orleans and all along the Gulf Coast is unacceptable, and people OUGHT to be outraged. Shoot, they ought to be outraged over any number of things, but especially this. And if there are some Republican partisans on this board who can't tolerate the outrage because they interpret it as an attack on Bush, I invite them to consider that there are plenty of conservative Republicans who are voicing their outrage, too.

Enough. Blood pressure med time.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#70 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:31 PM

Spectacles, on Sep 6 2005, 03:23 PM, said:

Quote

QT speaking of Eloisel: I think was a brilliant strategy to analyse the actual ideas instead of maligning anybody for having the opinion, or for having the opinion and being on the wrong side of the fence.

I would agree, if that is what Eloisel had been doing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


:unsure:  I probably worded that badly, but... the quote there is not speaking about anything in this thread... its speaking about some of eloisel's past threads from a month or more ago.  She started interjecting with only this quote:

eloisel said:

But is it true?


whenever someone started being outraged that some politician or another said some something or another.

EVERYONE has a right to be angry, and lash out - we are all feeling the weight of this tragedy.  I'm not asking anyone to be "nice." or anything like that.  I'm just pointing out that there's some truth to what she's saying.... whether she said it nicely or not.  AND, I'm also pointing out, as I did earlier - that until G1223 made this a blatantly partisan thread - it didn't have to be.

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#71 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:32 PM

Spectacles, on Sep 6 2005, 12:23 PM, said:

I will add that I will not back down on this issue: people are justifiably horrified at the sight of people dying while the cavalry is in disarray. They have every right to voice their concerns here. Sure, it ain't "positive," but there are times when outrage is appropriate and tut-tutting that outrage is inappropriate. I'd say this counts as one of those times.

Sometimes I've been cowed by pleas to "be nice" over the Iraq War, over the economy, over Plamegate, but there is no way on earth I'm going to be yanked back on this one. Our government's response to the tragedy in New Orleans and all along the Gulf Coast is unacceptable, and people OUGHT to be outraged. Shoot, they ought to be outraged over any number of things, but especially this. And if there are some Republican partisans on this board who can't tolerate the outrage because they interpret it as an attack on Bush, I invite them to consider that there are plenty of conservative Republicans who are voicing their outrage, too.

Enough. Blood pressure med time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I agree.  There is a vast difference between droning on and on and pushing a political agenda vs. being outraged at real events.  There's a time to be rational and thoughtful and whatever brand of 'nice' is demanded here on EI.  

Then again, there is a time to speak up and hold people responsible for the execution of the oath of office each and every one of them took when they began receiving a pay check paid with our tax dollars.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#72 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:34 PM

Quote

I've seen eloisel challenge the a priori assumptions made by both sides of the divide with her "but is it true" question... which I think was a brilliant strategy to analyse the actual ideas instead of maligning anybody for having the opinion, or for having the opinion and being on the wrong side of the fence.

******** I agree with that.  Usually I like Eloisel's posts.  This one, however, I don't have a lot of sympathy towards.  I'm getting a little tired of constantly being condemned for things, even if I haven't done them.  If I'm going to be condemned anyway, then what's my motivation to be good?  Like I've said before, if I'm going to be hung as a horse thief, damn if I'll be walking home anymore.   If the punishment's the same for the innocent as the guilty, then give yourself the advantage of actually doing the crime.


Quote

And point well taken... but I still agree with her sentiment.

I once proposed a "Good News Forum." Most people felt it was redundant to existing forums. Some felt that it would be boring - that debate and spirited clashes just are inherently more fun. Well - I think eloisel's post speaks to that... and I think if we really wanted to... we could change that. In fact....

There's good news posted here fairly often, and there should be... but, it doesn't spark much debate, so it might get a little dull if it was a forum all to itself.  And I've tried to be good, but what does it get me?  More scolding, and the opportunity to listen to crap like "stupid lazy Southerners" from one who seldom even manages to display basic literate coherency, much less insight.  I've got cousins with 6 feet of water in their house.  I spent a lot of the weekend sorting through clothes to give to refugees who are holed up here (and to the police who are trying to help them, and are in just about as bad a shape as they are now).  I've got friends who haven't even turned up yet - they're probably alive, but who knows what shape they're gonna be in?    I skipped a wedding party for a friend I haven't seen in a couple years this weekend because the gas situation doesn't allow for anything except absolutely essential driving.  I watched people die on CNN, over and over again, for days.  I go outside, I hear chainsaws, trying to take trees off of houses.  And it goes on and on, from the tragic to the mundane.  So, good will or not, I'm not gonna listen to comments about "stupid and lazy Southerners" (who happen to be fricking dying by the thousands and possibly tens of thousands) and blame-shifting to the victims of the tragedy from somebody who scolds everybody for being "hateful" and is usually so much on the victim's side that he seems to aspire to nothing else.   Not gonna be on my best behavior while that's going on, nope.  I'm in the mood to hurt some feelings.  So far I'm restraining it pretty well.  But if that levee breaks right now, it's gonna be hard hard hard to make me give a damn.  I've been through plenty over the past week and I've watched friends and neighbors go through exponentially more than I've had to... so if somebody tries to compound that by casting "stupid and lazy" comments on the top of it all, damn if I'll waste my time being nice.  I didn't start up a verbal boot-party on anybody, and that's 'bout as nice as I'll get right now.

Next week (hell, even tomorrow) I'll try to do better, but for today, this is the best I can do.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#73 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:42 PM

Zwolf666, on Sep 6 2005, 12:34 PM, said:

Quote

I've seen eloisel challenge the a priori assumptions made by both sides of the divide with her "but is it true" question... which I think was a brilliant strategy to analyse the actual ideas instead of maligning anybody for having the opinion, or for having the opinion and being on the wrong side of the fence.

******** I agree with that.  Usually I like Eloisel's posts.  This one, however, I don't have a lot of sympathy towards.  I'm getting a little tired of constantly being condemned for things, even if I haven't done them.  If I'm going to be condemned anyway, then what's my motivation to be good?  Like I've said before, if I'm going to be hung as a horse thief, damn if I'll be walking home anymore.   If the punishment's the same for the innocent as the guilty, then give yourself the advantage of actually doing the crime.


Quote

And point well taken... but I still agree with her sentiment.

I once proposed a "Good News Forum." Most people felt it was redundant to existing forums. Some felt that it would be boring - that debate and spirited clashes just are inherently more fun. Well - I think eloisel's post speaks to that... and I think if we really wanted to... we could change that. In fact....

There's good news posted here fairly often, and there should be... but, it doesn't spark much debate, so it might get a little dull if it was a forum all to itself.  And I've tried to be good, but what does it get me?  More scolding, and the opportunity to listen to crap like "stupid lazy Southerners" from one who seldom even manages to display basic literate coherency, much less insight.  I've got cousins with 6 feet of water in their house.  I spent a lot of the weekend sorting through clothes to give to refugees who are holed up here (and to the police who are trying to help them, and are in just about as bad a shape as they are now).  I've got friends who haven't even turned up yet - they're probably alive, but who knows what shape they're gonna be in?    I skipped a wedding party for a friend I haven't seen in a couple years this weekend because the gas situation doesn't allow for anything except absolutely essential driving.  I watched people die on CNN, over and over again, for days.  I go outside, I hear chainsaws, trying to take trees off of houses.  And it goes on and on, from the tragic to the mundane.  So, good will or not, I'm not gonna listen to comments about "stupid and lazy Southerners" (who happen to be fricking dying by the thousands and possibly tens of thousands) and blame-shifting to the victims of the tragedy from somebody who scolds everybody for being "hateful" and is usually so much on the victim's side that he seems to aspire to nothing else.   Not gonna be on my best behavior while that's going on, nope.  I'm in the mood to hurt some feelings.  So far I'm restraining it pretty well.  But if that levee breaks right now, it's gonna be hard hard hard to make me give a damn.  I've been through plenty over the past week and I've watched friends and neighbors go through exponentially more than I've had to... so if somebody tries to compound that by casting "stupid and lazy" comments on the top of it all, damn if I'll waste my time being nice.  I didn't start up a verbal boot-party on anybody, and that's 'bout as nice as I'll get right now.

Next week (hell, even tomorrow) I'll try to do better, but for today, this is the best I can do.

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



**appluads**

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#74 QueenTiye

QueenTiye

    Behavior is not reproducible over multiple trials.

  • Islander
  • 24,302 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:48 PM

Zwolf666, on Sep 6 2005, 03:34 PM, said:

******** I agree with that.  Usually I like Eloisel's posts.  This one, however, I don't have a lot of sympathy towards.  I'm getting a little tired of constantly being condemned for things, even if I haven't done them.  If I'm going to be condemned anyway, then what's my motivation to be good?  Like I've said before, if I'm going to be hung as a horse thief, damn if I'll be walking home anymore.   If the punishment's the same for the innocent as the guilty, then give yourself the advantage of actually doing the crime.

I hear you. :) Well - I've been away from the boards so, if eloisel said something condemnatory about Southerners or anybody - I'll stop defending her.  Not nice to kick people when they're down.  

From this thread, however, it seems that the only person who's been doing that is a different person who's not eloisel.

Quote

There's good news posted here fairly often, and there should be... but, it doesn't spark much debate, so it might get a little dull if it was a forum all to itself. 

That was precisely the argument... :)

Quote

Next week (hell, even tomorrow) I'll try to do better, but for today, this is the best I can do.

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Fair enough.  I'm sorry that you're struggling through all of this.  Good luck to you and yours and to all of your neighbors.  If there's something we at Ex Isle can do to help, please do let us know...

QT

Een Draght Mackt Maght


#75 Tom Sawyer

Tom Sawyer

    Harbinger of The Abyss

  • Dead account
  • 1,166 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:53 PM

I'd like to take a moment in order to point out that the people who fled the hurricane, and a substantial number of the refugees of the aftermath are living in Southern homes, Southern churches, Southern arenas, and eating Southern food and generally receiving Southern hospitality as only we Southerners can do it.

I realize that many refugees are traveling north, but the bulk are here in the South...and well taken care of.  Promise ya.

Edited by CoyoteUgly, 06 September 2005 - 02:54 PM.

The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? ó A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#76 Lin731

Lin731
  • Islander
  • 4,126 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 02:57 PM

Quote

I would agree, if that is what Eloisel had been doing. But, respectfully, I have to disagree. I'm much more inclined to agree with Cait's assessment. Eloisel has done her fair share of maligning. I'm thinking specifically of her own attempt to distort the position of and therefore demonize those who are critical of the federal government's response in this thread:


Yep I agree with Cait's assessment as well. I actually came up with a reply I thought worthy of the question but decided not to go there. Likewise I felt the intent of the thread was to poke people with verbal sticks in a sneaky, round-about way. It's one thing to just launch into a partisan attack for the sake of it but that hasn't been the case...It's about alot of angry people watching their fellow citizens wither and die on the nightly news for lack of a coordinated, timely response that exhibited the leadership needed to get things done.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#77 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 03:05 PM

Quote

I hear you.  Well - I've been away from the boards so, if eloisel said something condemnatory about Southerners or anybody - I'll stop defending her. Not nice to kick people when they're down.

From this thread, however, it seems that the only person who's been doing that is a different person who's not eloisel.

****** No, Eloisel hasn't said anything like that.  I don't agree with her sometimes, but I think she has more class than that.  I don't agree with her post here, because I think she's just as guilty of these things as anyone she's scolding, but that's not a biggie, and I have no real problem with anything she's said.  G, however, apparently does not have that level of class.  And G's gotten the last good will he's ever going to get out of me.   I've tried in the past with him and have been consistently made to regret it, and that statement under these circumstances is the last fricking straw.        

Quote

That was precisely the argument...

***** I understand. :)  You should still keep posting good news, too, though, just to keep a balance. :)


Quote

Fair enough. I'm sorry that you're struggling through all of this. Good luck to you and yours and to all of your neighbors. If there's something we at Ex Isle can do to help, please do let us know...

****** I very much appreciate that. :) Just keep giving to the Red Cross and other charities... they need it now.   We'll make it, though.  The South will rise again... ;)

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#78 Anarch

Anarch
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 03:37 PM

Quote

There is a vast difference between droning on and on and pushing a political agenda vs. being outraged at real events.

I'd like to note that "pushing a political agenda" is orthogonal to the issue at hand.  I, for example, am damn well pursuing a political agenda: ousting the incompetents whose malfeasance cost thousands of lives.  I'm pursuing an additional agenda: getting other people to agree with me that this kind of travesty is unacceptable and getting them to voice their protest wherever possible (in particular, at the ballot box).  And I make no apologies for that whatsoever.

And nor should anyone else.

It's a symbol of how debased political discourse in this country has become that "politics" is somehow considered automatically pejorative and that everything has to be covered in a fine samite shroud of (faux) "objectivity" and "nonpartisanship" lest it be "tainted" by base motives or some BS like that.  Sometimes one side screws up and the other doesn't.  Sometimes everybody screws up but somebody screws up more.  It isn't "objective" to disguise this fact with false "balance", and all the "nonpartisan" flimflammery can take a long walk off a short levee if it's done in the interests of obscuring the truth.

Some people screwed up.  Many more people died.  If those who failed are all Democrats, or all Republicans, or some stratified mixture of each, I don't care; off with their (political) heads, and let faux-objectivity be damned.

#79 Cait

Cait

    Democracy Dies in Darkness

  • Moderator
  • 10,810 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 03:53 PM

Anarch, on Sep 6 2005, 01:37 PM, said:

It isn't "objective" to disguise this fact with false "balance", and all the "nonpartisan" flimflammery can take a long walk off a short levee if it's done in the interests of obscuring the truth.

Some people screwed up.  Many more people died.  If those who failed are all Democrats, or all Republicans, or some stratified mixture of each, I don't care; off with their (political) heads, and let faux-objectivity be damned.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


You said it better than I did... Thank you!!! :love:

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#80 Kosh

Kosh

    Criag Ferguson For President!

  • Islander
  • 11,149 posts

Posted 06 September 2005 - 04:03 PM

Quote

There was heavy truck traffic entering New Orleans starting right after the storm ended. Only they weren’t government trucks. And even if that weren’t true a company of combat engineers could have cleared the bridges in less then 24 hours, if they had only gone out and looked at them. The proposition that there was not a passable route into New Orleans right after the storm ended is a bold face lie.

Harry Conic Jr. made it to NO before the relief made it.






Zack: Buckeye's? Is that one of the MAC teams?
Can't Touch This!!



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Human Expressions, Culture

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users