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Mayor Ray Nagin has Vegas on his mind

Katrina Top News 2005 Mayor Ray Nagan New Orleans

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#1 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 08:40 AM

Here's the link: http://www.foxnews.c...,168629,00.html

And the part of this that really pisses me off...

Quote

The mayor also blasted critics who suggested granting such vacations in a time of crisis constitutes a dereliction of duty, and a call to party, saying, "New Orleans is a party city. Get over it."

When I first heard the broadcast where he blasted Federal officials for not responding I thought he was a decent person...No longer. If his priority is to "party" and wants us to "get over it" I have to wonder if he even asked FEMA and the Bush Administration for aide?

And now this bastard has the f**king nerve to tell people there: "Leave or we will force you to leave"?

This man seriously needs to be....

Well, I can't say what should happen to this bastard, since it most certainly would be promoting illegal actions and definately violate the board guidelines. I just hope that when all is said and done Ray Nagin is sharing a cell with someone named Bubba...and that wasn't my first choice of what should happen to him.
Here's the link where he orders force to move the people: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9156612/

Now don't get me wrong. IMO these people SHOULD leave. But for him to order this forced evacuation, a day after he gives his first responders a vacation, along with money, to Vegas is BS!

Can you just imagine the response if the Mayor of NY sent the first responders of 9-11 to Vegas, for a vacation? While there were still people needing to be rescued?

Edited by LORD of the SWORD, 09 September 2005 - 10:43 AM.

"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#2 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 08:49 AM

I am taking a hiatus from my blame game of who was responsible city/state/federal until I learn more about what the city had the capabilities to do and did, or did not do.  

BUT - Why shouldn't the first responders get a reward?  Workers coming down for the relief efforts (of which, I'm hoping to be a part of) are offered free roundtrip airfare home and a 4 day vacation after 45 days of 12 hr/day work- is that alright with you?  These people have worked 24/7 for the past week.  Perhaps this isn't the best response, but I'm going to wait to pass judgement until I know more than what is in that 2 paragraph story.

***Is easily distracted***


#3 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 08:52 AM

Rhiannonjk, on Sep 7 2005, 08:49 AM, said:

BUT - Why shouldn't the first responders get a reward?  Workers coming down for the relief efforts (of which, I'm hoping to be a part of) are offered free roundtrip airfare home and a 4 day vacation after 45 days of 12 hr/day work- is that alright with you?  These people have worked 24/7 for the past week.  Perhaps this isn't the best response, but I'm going to wait to pass judgement until I know more than what is in that 2 paragraph story.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I'm not begrudging anyone a vacation. And they probably do deserve it. If I was one of them though, I'd at least wait until all the people were saved before even thinking about it. Maybe I'm wrong though...I happen to think saving the people should come before sending your first responders on a paid vacation.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#4 Spectacles

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 08:53 AM

First of all, I have so little regard for Brit Hume as an objective reporter, I'm a little reluctant to comment on this. If this is the unvarnished truth, I'm sure it will appear elsewhere because it's controversial to say the least, especially the "party" comments.

But I will say that other than his "get off your asses"  rant, Nagin has done very little to impress me and surely is to blame (along with the governor) for the poor implementation of the evacuation plans. Plus, I was amazed that he didn't call for a mandatory evacuation a full day before he did. Shoot, there were even tourists in NO on Saturday night before the storm who had no idea what was coming at them since they weren't following the news and there had been no apparent effort on the city's part to get the warning out.

So he sure as heck isn't blameless in any of this--and he's done some mighty strange things. Wouldn't surprise me if this were true.

I can see giving first responders a break, but Vegas is just...tacky. ;)
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#5 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 08:59 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Sep 7 2005, 09:52 AM, said:

I'm not begrudging anyone a vacation. And they probably do deserve it. If I was one of them though, I'd at least wait until all the people were saved before even thinking about it. Maybe I'm wrong though...I happen to think saving the people should come before sending your first responders on a paid vacation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why I'm interested in knowing more of the story - is he talking about shipping them to Vegas this afternoon, or in a week or two?

***Is easily distracted***


#6 Natolii

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 09:16 AM

Come off it.

Those people are so f-ing stressed they have had 2 suicides. They have 400 to 500 of their own missing who just might be dead. They've had no breaks, no down time in 5 days. You had parishes that had no help what so ever down there. You have men and women who have lost EVERYTHING working to save more lives. Even the first responders of 9/11 did not have to work in such deplorable conditions. Hells they've said it themselves!!!

http://www2.whdh.com...tional/BOS4835/

Quote

"I think it's really heartbreaking," said William Doyle, who lost his son, Joseph Doyle, on Sept. 11. "Unfortunately, these people aren't getting the help that the 9/11 families got."

And you want to begrudge them their R&R in light of everything they have been through now that suitable coverage is on hand to take over?!?!?
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#7 Natolii

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 09:26 AM

Amid city's despair, policeman kills himself -
Department spokesman was one of two suicides on New Orleans force

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9231473/

Quote

Traumatized police force
Accardo ó who also lost his home in the flood waters ó looked like a zombie, like someone who hadnít slept in year, Defillo said. But so did so many on the 1,600-member force.

Officials said Monday that between 400 to 500 officers were unaccounted for, many tending to their homes or looking for their families, and some dropping out. To lessen the stress, officers were being cycled off duty and given five-day vacations in Las Vegas and Atlanta, where they also would receive counseling.

So these are not only vacations, but treatment for these guys. You are gonna see a rise in PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).
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#8 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 03:32 PM

Natolii, on Sep 7 2005, 09:16 AM, said:

Come off it.

Those people are so f-ing stressed they have had 2 suicides. They have 400 to 500 of their own missing who just might be dead. They've had no breaks, no down time in 5 days. You had parishes that had no help what so ever down there. You have men and women who have lost EVERYTHING working to save more lives. Even the first responders of 9/11 did not have to work in such deplorable conditions. Hells they've said it themselves!!!

http://www2.whdh.com...tional/BOS4835/

Quote

"I think it's really heartbreaking," said William Doyle, who lost his son, Joseph Doyle, on Sept. 11. "Unfortunately, these people aren't getting the help that the 9/11 families got."

And you want to begrudge them their R&R in light of everything they have been through now that suitable coverage is on hand to take over?!?!?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Oh please!

I'll grant that the 9-11 victim's FAMILIES have gotten aide...But as for the firefighters who tried to save those who died...spending weeks in the Hell hole that was once the WTC, and saying what they went through wasn't just as severe or deplorable...is absurd.

They went through hell, and were extremely stressed, yet not ONE of them took vacation. Hell the Mayor had to limit their numbers at ground zero. Not one wanted to go to Vegas.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#9 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 03:37 PM

Yes, but in New York, a week later, the ashes were cooling, the bulldozers had moved in, and life was beginning to continue.  

Here, over a week later, the rescue teams are still looking for survivors, fires are still beginning to brew, and life in the city may not continue for another 6 months.  

they are not the same situations.

***Is easily distracted***


#10 Lin731

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 03:43 PM

I'm not sure how I feel about this really. I think the officers need and deserve time off but not a weeks worth yet. Not until the city is entirely evacuated unless guardsmen can fill in for them. I can well understand though that these folks have been through the ringer and DO need a break once the inital evacuation is completed. Most have no homes left, nowhere to sleep themselves, some missing family members...Just looking at those evacuated, the deer-in-the-headlights look of them, I can only imagine how much worse it is for these cops running for a week on fumes, seeing what they've been seeing for a week.
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#11 Zwolf

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 03:53 PM

Once the rescue operations are completed and everyone who can be saved has been saved and some sort of order has been restored, then I'm all for giving the heroes who helped any kind of vacation they want, because they'll have definitely earned it.   But while rescue operations are ongoing... uh-uhhhh, no frickin' Vegas trips, no way, sorry.

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#12 offworlder

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 04:00 PM

remember when I said how surprised I was that I agreed with every single word in a Lord post?
this aint it
;)
He decided to give his folks a break after he lost maybe a 1/3 to AWOL and two confirmed suicides, with many others targets in some non-gun-control target practice ....................... now I'd do it differently, I think that man is overtaxed and doing a couple things wrong but hey he's overwhelmed, but I'd not send them out of state, I'd get bedrolls in Baton Rouge, sit them down and inject them with a sedative for sleep, make them sleep 10 hours, get a good breakfast, then get back in the saddle 'Out There', and no vaca for at least two more weeks .......... but then I'd reward them afterwards with medals and vaca and a bonus for each and call them heros, (if only to keep them from resigning)
:D
but other than that,
I disagree with virtually every word in the opening post, all that vituperative vinegar and salt stuff, all that hang em high stuff
:rolleyes:
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#13 Natolii

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 04:21 PM

offworlder, on Sep 7 2005, 05:00 PM, said:

He decided to give his folks a break after he lost maybe a 1/3 to AWOL and two confirmed suicides, with many others targets in some non-gun-control target practice .......................

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Actually Many of those may not be AWOL at all...


They may actually be victims themselves... As in dead. They've never checked in.

As for 9/11...

This is worse. That is a fact. I'm not say that it wasn't horrific, hells I have had 3 opportunities to visit ground zero and still could not do it.

But this was far worse.

As a sidenote...

The NYFD has rolled into NOLA. 325 members of the NYFD were on hand to help with evacuations and combat fires that have broken out. This is payback for NOFD's help during 9/11.

Edited by Natolii, 07 September 2005 - 04:24 PM.

"I have on this board written pages and pages pointing out the science, and I will be dammed if I am going to attempt to reach closed minds that donít even know how to use a reference library." -emsparks (Fenton E. Magill, dec. 1/25/07 - Love you Dad)

#14 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 05:46 PM

Lin731, on Sep 7 2005, 03:43 PM, said:

I can well understand though that these folks have been through the ringer and DO need a break once the inital evacuation is completed. Most have no homes left, nowhere to sleep themselves, some missing family members...Just looking at those evacuated, the deer-in-the-headlights look of them, I can only imagine how much worse it is for these cops running for a week on fumes, seeing what they've been seeing for a week.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Actually, I hadn't considered that aspect...On 9-11, when their shifts over, the rescue workers either returned to their base of operations...or their homes. Here they have no livable homes to go to...hadn't considered that.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#15 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 05:47 PM

Natolii, on Sep 7 2005, 04:21 PM, said:

The NYFD has rolled into NOLA. 325 members of the NYFD were on hand to help with evacuations and combat fires that have broken out. This is payback for NOFD's help during 9/11.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I saw that on the news, and got a little choked up. Guess it's true: What goes around comes around. NOFD helped NY, now it's NY's turn to help them.
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#16 MuseZack

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 05:58 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Sep 7 2005, 10:47 PM, said:

Natolii, on Sep 7 2005, 04:21 PM, said:

The NYFD has rolled into NOLA. 325 members of the NYFD were on hand to help with evacuations and combat fires that have broken out. This is payback for NOFD's help during 9/11.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I saw that on the news, and got a little choked up. Guess it's true: What goes around comes around. NOFD helped NY, now it's NY's turn to help them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


This kind of thing is pretty common, actually.  Santa Cruz, California provided a lot of aid and assistance to Charleston, S.C. after Hurricane Hugo, so when barely a month later Santa Cruz was devastated in the Loma Prieta earthquake, I was shocked to see over a dozen Charleston cops helping keep the peace in the ruins of the Pacific Garden Mall.  If Gigi's around, she probably remembers this as well.


As for the NOPD, let's be honest-- the department is a mess, and has been a mess for decades if not centuries.  Something like 50 former cops are currently serving time for various offenses.  Nagin was elected partly on a platform of cleaning up the force, and by most accounts he was making progress when the hurricane hit, but no one should be surprised that it collapsed quicker than the Fallujah defense brigade when the levees broke.

Edited by MuseZack, 07 September 2005 - 06:02 PM.

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#17 Anarch

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 06:59 PM

MuseZack, on Sep 7 2005, 10:58 PM, said:

Something like 50 former cops are currently serving time for various offenses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And we all know the stories about lions, gazelles, and the thinning of the herd...

#18 Natolii

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:15 AM

Still to say that the 400-500 that have not reported in as AWOL is grossly inaccurate.

The NO Superintendant of Police has even acknowledged that these people maybe among the Casualities. My friend down there has said the NO Major Crimes division is very good.

There will always be a bad apple in the bunch.

For example... My home City

City Cop Arrested at Rest Stop

Quote

SWANSEA -- A Fall River Police Department lieutenant was arrested by state police Monday afternoon at a Route 195 rest area on charges of indecent exposure and open and gross lewdness.

Eduardo M. Raposo, 47, of Shaylee Place, was nabbed shortly after 12:30 p.m. at the rest area on the westbound side of the interstate between exits two and three, state police spokeswoman Veronica Dalton said.

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According to an incident report obtained by The Herald News, Raposo was arrested after a state trooper allegedly saw him masturbating about 100 yards away from two families eating lunch.

Trooper Michael Halsteadís report states Raposo was allegedly masturbating while two other men watched.

Halstead said he was at the rest area eating lunch when he noticed two men "wandering" near the tree line.

Halstead, according to the report, got out of his police cruiser and approached the two men, who said they were just looking for a rest room.

While walking back toward his cruiser, two families eating lunch on picnic tables told him there were other men in the woods.

Halstead drove toward the woods and spotted two men watching Raposo masturbating about 15 feet inside the wooded tree line and in an "area free for the public to view."

When Halstead approached the three men, they scattered in different directions. After briefly chasing Raposo, Halstead returned to where all three menís vehicles were parked.

One of the men, whose vehicle has a Rhode Island license plate, eluded police.

But both Raposo and Russell V. Cappellino, 70, of New York City, were captured when they came out of the woods.

Cappellino, who told police he "likes to watch," was allowed to leave but was advised he will receive a citation for a "live parking" violation in the mail.

A state police spokeswoman said a live parking violation means Cappellino will be cited for failing to obey signs that state drivers are prohibited from parking their vehicles and then leaving the area.

Raposo, however, was handcuffed and transported to the Dartmouth State Police Barracks for booking.

He was eventually released later in the day.

The married 21-year veteran police Uniform Division detective lieutenant was to be arraigned at the Massachusetts Trial Court in Fall River Tuesday morning.

But that arraignment was unexpectedly postponed until today, court officials said.

If convicted, Raposo could be forced to register as a sex offender.

Fall River Police Lt. Jeffrey Cardoza said Raposo has been suspended pending the outcome of the criminal case and an internal police investigation.

"No further information will be released by the Fall River Police Department to maintain the integrity of the internal investigation," Cardoza said.

"I have on this board written pages and pages pointing out the science, and I will be dammed if I am going to attempt to reach closed minds that donít even know how to use a reference library." -emsparks (Fenton E. Magill, dec. 1/25/07 - Love you Dad)

#19 GiGi

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:56 AM

MuseZack, on Sep 7 2005, 03:58 PM, said:

This kind of thing is pretty common, actually.  Santa Cruz, California provided a lot of aid and assistance to Charleston, S.C. after Hurricane Hugo, so when barely a month later Santa Cruz was devastated in the Loma Prieta earthquake, I was shocked to see over a dozen Charleston cops helping keep the peace in the ruins of the Pacific Garden Mall.  If Gigi's around, she probably remembers this as well.
Indeed I do.  It is wonderful when aid comes from unexpected places.

It took years and years for the city to rebuild, and it has.  But what has happened in NO is so many times more than what we went through.  Truly the best thing is for the nation to stop pointing fingers and roll up their sleeves and do whatever little or big thing they can do to help.  I remember having no heat, no phone and no electricity for weeks and feeling frustrated that everything was turned upside down after the earthquake.  But at least I had a house (the disaster that it was, at least I had a roof and running water).  When exhaustion sets in and almost everything that is taken for granted daily isn't there, the last thing that is needed is more stress from outside sources.  Every kindness, no matter how small is a treasure.  The true measure of what is important is in the deeds of those around you, be they petty, greedy or noble.
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#20 Psyche

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 09:23 AM

I understand these people need breaks, yeah, but not a week vacation in Vegas. I like the idea of sending them to Baton Rouge to sleep, then back in NO in a couple days.

While I think Nagin has made mistakes- he has, no arguing there- he is under a lot of stress. Though a lot of whats going on now wouldn't be as bad if he'd ordered the evacuation on Saturday, and tried to get the residents that couldn't leave by themselves, bussed out or something.



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