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New CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll & ABC poll

Top News 2005 Katrina Bush Gov't failures CNN/Gallup poll

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#1 Nonprofit

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 08:05 PM

Ogami noticed this CNN poll, and thought it might be of interest. I'm glad he brought it to my attention.

This poll actually shows how even things actually are.  Not tilting to one side or the other as some may want you to think. Might be why it was buried and not headlines.  Only 13% blame Bush, so its not big news. I bet those 13% are the moveon.org folks and the new media.

New CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll:
http://www.cnn.com/2...poll/index.html

Quote

Opinions varied widely, however, on the response of federal, state and local officials regarding Katrina. Forty-two percent of respondents characterized President Bush's response to the disaster as "bad" or "terrible," while 35 percent said it was "good" or "great."

Federal government agencies' response was described as "bad" or "terrible" by 42 percent, and "good" or "great" by 35 percent. State and local officials' response was described as "bad" or "terrible" by 35 percent and "good" or "great" by 37 percent.

Respondents also disagreed widely on who is to blame for the problems in the city following the hurricane -- 13 percent said Bush, 18 percent said federal agencies, 25 percent blamed state or local officials and 38 percent said no one is to blame. And 63 percent said they do not believe anyone at federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired as a result.

In recent days, 62 percent said they believe progress made in dealing with the situation is satisfactory.


http://abcnews.go.co...=1094262&page=2

Quote

Poll: Bush Not Taking Brunt of Katrina Criticism

Most Americans, 55 percent, also say Bush does not deserve a significant level of personal blame for problems in the federal response to the crisis. And while 44 percent do assign him blame, only about half of them, 23 percent overall, blame him "a great deal."

Some of these views seem to take into account the magnitude of the natural disaster: Forty-four percent say the situation shows serious problems in the federal government's emergency preparedness overall, but more, 54 percent, instead say that this particular disaster was a special case. Republicans, in particular, take the latter position.

RuReddy

#2 MuseZack

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 09:18 PM

*Temporary spoiler tags added by Nick
Spoiler: click to show/hide

1:  This poll has already been posted elsewhere.

2:  You're selectively citing statistics from it.  For example, you omit the 18 percent who blamed "the federal government."

3:  Survey USA and Rasmussen's polls, both with a greater history of accuracy, show pretty much the opposite.

4: Do you care whether or not the deaths of perhaps 10,000 of your fellow citizens are due at least in part to the President's decisions, or simply the polling results?  Is everything simply politics?  Your little smiley face would seem to suggest that you've already made up your mind on the matter.

5: Edited at moderators' request.  


Spoiler tags?  Fascinating.  Dare you read what lies inside them?  (suspense music)

Edited by MuseZack, 07 September 2005 - 10:55 PM.

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#3 Cait

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 09:51 PM

Oh, good grief, why was that spoiler tagged?

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

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#4 Delvo

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:02 PM

I don't know if the first moderator to use immediate spoiler tags had in mind the fact that it's a version of my "football field official throwing the flag" concept or not, but it fits and acts so much exactly like it that I'm going to claim it as my own anyway. :p

Seriously, though... :D

You know, the story of the boy who "cried 'Wolf!'" has two lessons in it. At the end, the boy isn't the only one who is revealed to have made a big mistake for claiming there was a problem when there wasn't. The other people in the story who'd gotten annoyed with him before and ended up ignoring him because of it made their own kind of mistake.

Here we have almost the same thing: Democrats having been so far overboard with their histerics and histrionics over nothing every time they've opened their mouths for so long that the automatic reaction from many others has become an unshakable assumption that they're just up to their usual psycho antics every single time, and a subsequent apathy and unwillingness to listen to any more of it because it's always the same... even when there really finally IS something wrong this time and people SHOULD react negatively to it.

#5 Shalamar

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:05 PM

Polls can be selective, they can be manipulated, that is very true, but Zack certainly did not have to make points 4 and 5  - thats rather on the order of personal attacks- or so it seems to me. especially #5.
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#6 Delvo

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:05 PM

Cait, on Sep 7 2005, 09:51 PM, said:

Oh, good grief, why was that spoiler tagged?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, good grief, don't act like you clicked and didn't see that it was just a direct personal attack! There's no way it could honestly be called anything else!

#7 Nick

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:11 PM

Delvo, on Sep 7 2005, 11:02 PM, said:

I don't know if the first moderator to use immediate spoiler tags had in mind the fact that it's a version of my "football field official throwing the flag" concept or not, but it fits and acts so much exactly like it that I'm going to claim it as my own anyway. :p

Feel free--it sortof is spun out of your idea.  Orpheus used it first, then coupled with the "to each mod their own fora" doctrine we're adopting . . . I figured . . . what the heck, give it a shot in OT.  Neat idea, needs more evaluating.  Still "experimental moderation" (cue "wooooowooooowooo" effects)

-Nick

#8 MuseZack

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:23 PM

If the mods feel I crossed a line into personal attacks, I'm happy to edit.  However, I think 4 and 5 are legitimate questions.  I honestly wanted to know whether RuReddy was interested in the underlying fact set, or simply the polling data.  And I think it's also legitimate to know whether or not someone is acting as a conduit/mouthpiece for a banned poster.  

But again, if the mods feel differently, I'm happy to edit.  I know it's a judgement call, and I'm willing to pull back if it serves the greater interests of the board.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#9 Nonprofit

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:27 PM

1. Where? Thread please.

2. You are mistaken.  Look at my post, in the first quote box and directly after  13 percent said Bush, and guess what you will find? For example: 18 percent said federal agencies, means the same thing as "the federal government."
I'm not selectively citing anything, I left the link to the article to you could click on it and view it.

3. Where is your link?

Your remarks in 4 and 5 are over the line.


RuReddy

#10 MuseZack

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:44 PM

RuReddy1, on Sep 8 2005, 03:27 AM, said:

1. Where? Thread please.

2. You are mistaken.  Look at my post, in the first quote box and directly after  13 percent said Bush, and guess what you will find? For example: 18 percent said federal agencies, means the same thing as "the federal government."
I'm not selectively citing anything, I left the link to the article to you could click on it and view it.

3. Where is your link?

Your remarks in 4 and 5 are over the line.


RuReddy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


1: http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=688217

2:  No, you proved my point.  Trumpeting the 13 percent up top without factoring in the other 18 shows you didn't understand the data you were citing.

3:  See:  http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=688217  for the link to the SurveyUSA, and go to http://www.rasmussen...005/Katrina.htm  for one of the Rasmussen polls (there are others.)

4 and 5:  Get over yourself.  You admitted up front that you were passing along spin from Ogami.  And it's not like I came out and accused you of caring more about the political standing of the President than the unnecessary deaths of 10,000 or more Americans.  Because that would have been overly personal and inappropriate.

Edited by MuseZack, 07 September 2005 - 10:45 PM.

"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#11 Cait

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 10:59 PM

Delvo, on Sep 7 2005, 08:05 PM, said:

Cait, on Sep 7 2005, 09:51 PM, said:

Oh, good grief, why was that spoiler tagged?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, good grief, don't act like you clicked and didn't see that it was just a direct personal attack! There's no way it could honestly be called anything else!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



LOL, well from where I stood, no I didn't see it as such a rabid attack that it needed spoiler tags, especially given what has been said in OT over the past week.  But your mileage may vary and that's fine.  

However, for future reference, I can assure you, if I ask why, I'm truly wondering why?  Sorry if that somehow offends you.

I will thank Nick for pm'ing me with an answer to my query.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#12 Jid

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Posted 07 September 2005 - 11:08 PM

Personally, I wouldn't take any poll that claims the interviews of 609 people is a good sample size for an accurate assessment of the feelings of a nation of 300 million seriously...

But I'm just naturally skeptical of statistics. ;)
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#13 scherzo

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:58 AM

Quote

Get over yourself. You admitted up front that you were passing along spin from Ogami. And it's not like I came out and accused you of caring more about the political standing of the President than the unnecessary deaths of 10,000 or more Americans. Because that would have been overly personal and inappropriate.
I think just for fun I'll pretend everything I post is being specifically passed along by The Ogami Agency.(A division of "Ogami Co."...not affiliated with "Ogami Furniture and Appliances") Heck, I think I could post step by step instructions for the perfect grilled cheese sandwich...mention Ogami's name, and watch at least one poster's head detonate.(4 appearances of his name in a single paragraph...gotta be at least a couple of smoking neck stumps out there) So from now on, play it safe and assume anything I say has it's origin with the other exiled Republicans of Slytherin. It's guaranteed to annoy, and just crazy enough to be true.  ;)    

Btw Zack, your tirade about politics and polling would have had more gravity if you could have resisted the urge to track down a counter poll more to your liking. It kind of sends the message you care very much about the President's "political standing". I'm not saying you don't care about 10,000 American deaths though. That would be overly personal, inappropriate, and sanctimonious.  :upside:  

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#14 Nonny

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 09:30 AM

MuseZack, on Sep 7 2005, 07:23 PM, said:

However, I think 4 and 5 are legitimate questions.  I honestly wanted to know whether RuReddy was interested in the underlying fact set, or simply the polling data.  And I think it's also legitimate to know whether or not someone is acting as a conduit/mouthpiece for a banned poster. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, didn't somebody offer to act as a conduit for a banned poster, and wasn't she told not to?  I'm sure this came up in AQG not so long ago.  

Nonny
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#15 Rhiannonjk

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 09:53 AM

Back to the original subject...

Just because some people in a poll don't blame Bush, or the Federal Government, doesn't mean that those two places are not at fault.

***Is easily distracted***


#16 MuseZack

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 10:40 AM

scherzo, on Sep 8 2005, 06:58 AM, said:

Quote

Get over yourself. You admitted up front that you were passing along spin from Ogami. And it's not like I came out and accused you of caring more about the political standing of the President than the unnecessary deaths of 10,000 or more Americans. Because that would have been overly personal and inappropriate.
I think just for fun I'll pretend everything I post is being specifically passed along by The Ogami Agency.(A division of "Ogami Co."...not affiliated with "Ogami Furniture and Appliances") Heck, I think I could post step by step instructions for the perfect grilled cheese sandwich...mention Ogami's name, and watch at least one poster's head detonate.(4 appearances of his name in a single paragraph...gotta be at least a couple of smoking neck stumps out there) So from now on, play it safe and assume anything I say has it's origin with the other exiled Republicans of Slytherin. It's guaranteed to annoy, and just crazy enough to be true.  ;)    

Btw Zack, your tirade about politics and polling would have had more gravity if you could have resisted the urge to track down a counter poll more to your liking. It kind of sends the message you care very much about the President's "political standing". I'm not saying you don't care about 10,000 American deaths though. That would be overly personal, inappropriate, and sanctimonious.  :upside:  

-scherzo(Ogami producing)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Scherzo, I'm sure that in your mind you were making some sort of point here, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what it was.
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#17 G1223

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 10:47 AM

I agree I think that too many folks around here have tried their level best if not even gone over the top in trying to place the blame on Bush's shoulders. I think the poll is closer to the reality of the situation. Which is that the local authorities were unwilling to expend the effort to actually get things done in NO. The 1500 police officers should have been backstopped by the national guard and loacl services to move all those that wanted to leave but could not due to health or other major reasons.

That rather than go back in as the storm finished that local authorities stood around and took little action to both maintain order and start rescue operations.

The Feds messed up by not using the Bataan's medical facilities to take major cases from shore as well as a place to withdraw the few folks in real need who could not have left.

As to those who made a deliberate choice to remain behind they should have been sent out of the area once the storm was over. If they refused or shot at rescue personnel they should have been killed on the stop.
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#18 Zwolf

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 10:53 AM

While we're doin' polls, here's a couple more.

CBS

Quote

Now
Approve        Disapprove         Don't Know
38%             58%                    4%

8/30-31
Approve        Disapprove         Don't Know
54%              12%                   34%


Big drop there.  

Quote

WAS THE RESPONSE TO KATRINA ADEQUATE?

Federal government
Yes
20%
No
77%

FEMA
Yes
24%
No
70%

State and local government
Yes
24%
No
70%

Nobody came out of that one looking too purty.  

Zogby

Interesting numbers there, too.

Cheers,

Zwolf
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#19 HubcapDave

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 11:53 AM

Like I've said elsewhere, everyone is covered in something much more smelly than glory over this mess. Local, State and Federal all screwed the pooch one way or the other.

#20 Anarch

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 11:55 AM

Ah, if only the Tsar knew...



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Top News 2005, Katrina, Bush, Gov't failures, CNN/Gallup poll

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