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New CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll & ABC poll

Top News 2005 Katrina Bush Gov't failures CNN/Gallup poll

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#21 Spectacles

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 12:16 PM

Zwolf666, on Sep 8 2005, 10:53 AM, said:

While we're doin' polls, here's a couple more.

CBS

Quote

Now
Approve        Disapprove         Don't Know
38%             58%                    4%

8/30-31
Approve        Disapprove         Don't Know
54%              12%                   34%


Big drop there.  

Quote

WAS THE RESPONSE TO KATRINA ADEQUATE?

Federal government
Yes
20%
No
77%

FEMA
Yes
24%
No
70%

State and local government
Yes
24%
No
70%

Nobody came out of that one looking too purty.  

Zogby

Interesting numbers there, too.

Cheers,

Zwolf

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Yow. No wonder Bush put Rove to work trying to manage the political disaster. The talking points that this is all the fault of the Democratic Governor of LA, the Democratic (and once-Republican) Mayor of NO, and the black people who didn't evacuate New Orleans are keeping a lot of Bush's hard-core supporters from abandoning ship. (Of course, they have to ignore the poor response in Mississippi altogether, especially it's Republican Governor--but what the heck.) But most people in this country see that there's a real, real problem here with the confused and confusing response of the feds to this disaster.  After all, why on earth did we pay all this money for a Department of Homeland Security that doesn't seem to know its *ss from its elbow? (DHS has been "coordinating" the response, by the way.) I am worried to death that this might be a good time for terrorists to launch an attack.  In which case, we're all screwed.

The state and local officials in Louisiana and Mississippi have plenty of 'splainin' to do.  But so do the feds, and the buck stops at the White House. And we should all put partisanship aside and consider that our government--at all levels and in both parties--needs a serious tune-up.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

"Although health care enrollment is actually going pretty well at this point, thousands and maybe millions of Americans have failed to sign up for coverage because they believe the false horror stories they keep hearing." -- Paul Krugman

#22 Cait

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 12:39 PM

Spectacles, on Sep 8 2005, 10:16 AM, said:

I am worried to death that this might be a good time for terrorists to launch an attack.  In which case, we're all screwed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


This is what I'm afraid of too.  If *I* were a terrorist [which I am not if anyone is confused], this would be a perfect time to strike.  Troops are already scattered to thin, the country is somewhat chaotic right now, and our vulnerabilities have been exposed.  

Regardless of who is to blame, it is now patently obvious that we can't respond effectively.  Two or three calculated attacks and we'd be in total chaos given the apparent efficiency of the HLS and FEMA to respond in a timely manner.

Notice I said apparent--when it comes to vulnerability to enemies, appearance is as good as reality.  We might not be vulnerable, but we appear to be, which could signal an attack.  

I'll be even more honest, it's the failure of the Fed's to respond quickly that speaks on the International level.  Terrorists don't care who was to blame, they only see a weakness.  It's bound to be exploited.  

That's something to really fear.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#23 Godeskian

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 12:46 PM

You aren't alone in that particular fear.

Defy Gravity!


The Doctor: The universe is big. It's vast and complicated and ridiculous and sometimes, very rarely, impossible things just happen and we call them miracles... and that's a theory. Nine hundred years and I've never seen one yet, but this will do me.


#24 scherzo

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 12:57 PM

Quote

Scherzo, I'm sure that in your mind you were making some sort of point here, but I'll be darned if I can figure out what it was.
Go with your first instinct. I have every confidence in you. ;)

Quote

The talking points that this is all the fault of the Democratic Governor of LA, the Democratic (and once-Republican) Mayor of NO, and the black people who didn't evacuate New Orleans are keeping a lot of Bush's hard-core supporters from abandoning ship.
In another thread I think it was Delvo who made a "boy who cried wolf analogy" about the non-stop trashing of the Bush administration. Actual legitimate gripes against administration failures can end up being defended out of reflex, because Republicans have grown so accustomed to vocal liberal outrage over everything from"My Pet Goat", to an offhand remark by Barbara Bush about the poor. The bashing is so frequently petty and needlessly nasty, the last thing the average person would wanna be is associated with the people doing it. For myself, I can certainly recognize the mistakes that were made from every level on up, but have found most of the criticisms by the anti-Bush regulars impossible to get behind. You may have a problem with the talking points that chart the mistakes and incompetence of the local government, and non-evacuees, but given charges of racism and outright apathy against the President, what choice do they really have?

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#25 Nonprofit

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:08 PM

Quote

Muse Zack
1: http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=688217

2: No, you proved my point. Trumpeting the 13 percent up top without factoring in the other 18 shows you didn't understand the data you were citing.

3: See: http://www.exisle.ne...ndpost&p=688217 for the link to the SurveyUSA, and go to http://www.rasmussen...005/Katrina.htm for one of the Rasmussen polls (there are others.)

4 and 5: Get over yourself. You admitted up front that you were passing along spin from Ogami. And it's not like I came out and accused you of caring more about the political standing of the President than the unnecessary deaths of 10,000 or more Americans. Because that would have been overly personal and inappropriate.

5: Edited at moderators' request.

1.  I see you beat me to posting this poll by several hours. But it really deserves its own thread.  IMO.  

2. You are mistaken once again. I didn't prove your point at all and you didn't understand my point.  I boldened the words of my choice,  as they related to the title I chose for this thread.  See like this:

President Bush's response to the disaster as "bad" or "terrible," while 35 percent said it was "good" or "great."

who is to blame for the problems in the city following the hurricane -- 13 percent said Bush

Most Americans, 55 percent, also say Bush does not deserve a significant level of personal blame for problems in the federal response to the crisis.


See how they all correlate to the topic of "Bush not taking the Brunt."

3. I see no response to your post yet,  even with your poll of a greater history of accuracy.  Thanks for the link.

4 & 5. If I had responded to you in such a manner,  I would have been suspened.

5. I see you are asked to edit once AGAIN.  

Quote

4.  Do you care whether or not the deaths of perhaps 10,000 of your fellow citizens are due at least in part to the President's decisions, or simply the polling results? Is everything simply politics? Your little smiley face would seem to suggest that you've already made up your mind on the matter.

Your ignorance is amazing at the fact you would write such a thing.  I just got back from 6 days  Sept 2 - 6 of working an event that I helped put together in my area.  And I had so much fun working. Heres a copy of the flyer we put out.

The Village ______ has initiated a disaster relief fund to help those affected by Hurricane Katrina.   “The destruction left by Hurricane Katrina is described as ‘one of the worst natural disasters in history’,” said Mayor _____.  “We’ve all been riveted by the media coverage and want to do what we can to help,” the mayor added.  To make donating convenient, the Village of ______ has established an account at ____ Bank to which area residents and businesses can send their contributions.     “We’ll leave the account open for a few weeks and any money collected will be forwarded to the Salvation Army to help with relief efforts in the affected region,” ____ said.  
    
Contributions may be made payable to the ________ HURRICANE KATRINA RELIEF FUND and dropped off at any of three village facilities or at the _____.    Village facilities accepting contributions include the  

Chamber member _____ is also participating as a collection place.  Please pass this information on to all your friends and employees.

This Holiday Weekend Help Us Help Those Impacted by Hurricane Katrina.  There is a coordinated effort of Semi-Truck & Trailer transportation of goods donated from the _____land to areas impacted by Katrina in Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama.How can you help?  There is an urgent need for both Emergency Relief Health Kits and Disaster Relief Flood Bucket Kits. These collections of everyday items help families recover during the early days after a major disaster. The health kits contain items such as a toothbrush, wash cloth, and soap. The flood buckets contain items like gloves, household cleaners, and bleach to help people clean their homes to make them livable again
You can donate NEW items including...
FOOD
· Baby Formula · Powdered Milk · Bottled Water · Granola Bars
CLOTHING  
· Socks · Underwear  · Diapers · Feminine Hygiene
EMERGENCY RELIEF KIT
Fill one or more 1-gallon size Ziploc bag(s) with brand NEW:
· Wash cloth & hand towel  · Soap & shampoo · Toothbrush & toothpaste  · Dental floss · Comb & brush  · Fingernail clipper · Small packet of tissue · Band-aids & Bandages
DISASTER RELIEF BUCKET
Fill one or more buckets with New:
· Bucket · Cleaning Gloves  · Household Cleaners · Bleach · Flashlight(s) · Batteries · Mops/Brooms · Candle(s) & Matches · Insect Repellant
BUILDING MATERIALS
·Generators · 4x8 Sheets of Plywood · 2x4’s · Nails & Screws  · Hammers  · Hand Tools  · Tarps  · Screen material · Caulk & gun

I've packed zip lock bags,  collected monies, went shoping with those monies for the items on the list.  I've made sanwiches for the workers, sweeped the floors, picked up workers,  dropped them at home. All for 6 wonderful days with happy people who wanted to help the world to be a better place.  

Quote

Is everything simply politics?

What do you think?  How much have you done for the folks that are displaced? How much do you really care?

Your concern about a smilie face on a thread.  Whoa .  You would think with all the hate, anger, piss and vinegar on this board concerning the Katrina issue already in sooo many threads, you could leave just one opposing positive thread alone.  You hate folks have had the run of the board from what I can see for the last week. Running over the few who dare to post anything but hate. Sorry but I'm not going to be one of those haters.

Is the main concern here,  blaming everything on Bush? Hating him so much you'll do anything to squash a  thread that might say the slightest good thing about him? Sheeeez......25 threads full of hate blaming the Feds, FEMA and Bush isn't that enough?

RuReddy

Edited by RuReddy1, 08 September 2005 - 01:51 PM.


#26 Cait

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:21 PM

scherzo, on Sep 8 2005, 10:57 AM, said:

You may have a problem with the talking points that chart the mistakes and incompetence of the local government, and non-evacuees, but given charges of racism and outright apathy against the President, what choice do they really have?

-scherzo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Well, the truth is that there are lots of choices.  

If you recall, in the end, "The boy who cried wolf" was finally pointing out a reality.  Sticking your head in the sand and saying, "Oh s/he's always saying that" doesn't take away from the reality of the current situation, and you're too smart not to see that.

If you can't differentiate between legitimate criticism and needless partisan spin, then you have the problem.  You're not alone, many, many people do.  They've been sniping back and forth for so long they can't stop, but that doesn't mean that there aren't legitimate criticisms to be leveled at all levels of government NOW.

You make a very important distinction, that much of the knee jerk remarks and responses are learned behavior.  One would think that if you see this, you'd have MANY more choices other than to perpetuate the partisan snark.

Look this is a question of context...... this is a major catastrophe.  Thousands are dead, and hundreds of thousands are displaced, you'd think some of you could see the difference here between the quid pro quo that is business as usual in OT, and the genuine concern now over what has occurred and the search for answers as to what went wrong.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#27 Zwolf

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:23 PM

Quote

In another thread I think it was Delvo who made a "boy who cried wolf analogy" about the non-stop trashing of the Bush administration. Actual legitimate gripes against administration failures can end up being defended out of reflex, because Republicans have grown so accustomed to vocal liberal outrage over everything from"My Pet Goat", to an offhand remark by Barbara Bush about the poor. The bashing is so frequently petty and needlessly nasty, the last thing the average person would wanna be is associated with the people doing it.

***** As someone who quit voting Republican around the time Rush Limbaugh started stirring up hysterical campaigns against Clinton (who wasn't great, but come on, a lot of Republicans act like the guy was Doctor Doom or somethin') and finally had my casting-no-more-Republican-votes-until-they-get-their-act-cleaned-up stance solidified by dealing with Ogami, I can vouch that that effect does, indeed, exist.  

But, it cuts both ways.

When there's a viable third party that's moderate, then I'll probably join up.  But until then I'm stuck with the lesser of the two evils.  I don't like a lot of the screaming that comes from the Dems, but I can't back the Repubs, either, because they cheerlead Bush so much that it makes me doubt their judgement.  If they don't know they have an extremely poor leader on their hands, then I can't really trust 'em overall.  Anybody can get a bum president.  The Dems had a horrible one in Jimmy Carter.  But at least they helped unelect that guy...

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#28 Cait

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:25 PM

Zwolf666, on Sep 8 2005, 11:23 AM, said:

I don't like a lot of the screaming that comes from the Dems, but I can't back the Repubs, either, because they cheerlead Bush so much that it makes me doubt their judgement.  If they don't know they have an extremely poor leader on their hands, then I can't really trust 'em overall.  Anybody can get a bum president.  The Dems had a horrible one in Jimmy Carter.  But at least they helped unelect that guy...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Amen!

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#29 Zwolf

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:28 PM

Quote

I've packed zip lock bags, collected monies, went shoping with those monies for the items on the list. I've made sanwiches for the workers, sweeped the floors, picked up workers, dropped them at home. All for 6 wonderful days with happy people who wanted to help the world to be a better place.

****** Thanks, Reddy, and you're to be commended for that.  We've been doing some similar things down here, gathering clothes for the police, setting up shelters, organizing drives for money and supplies.  Like I said before, the government can let us down and agencies can let us down, but the American people seldom do when the chips are down.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#30 Nonprofit

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:40 PM

Quote

Scherzo
I think just for fun I'll pretend everything I post is being specifically passed along by The Ogami Agency.(A division of "Ogami Co."...not affiliated with "Ogami Furniture and Appliances") Heck, I think I could post step by step instructions for the perfect grilled cheese sandwich...mention Ogami's name, and watch at least one poster's head detonate.(4 appearances of his name in a single paragraph...gotta be at least a couple of smoking neck stumps out there) So from now on, play it safe and assume anything I say has it's origin with the other exiled Republicans of Slytherin. It's guaranteed to annoy, and just crazy enough to be true. 

Btw Zack, your tirade about politics and polling would have had more gravity if you could have resisted the urge to track down a counter poll more to your liking. It kind of sends the message you care very much about the President's "political standing". I'm not saying you don't care about 10,000 American deaths though. That would be overly personal, inappropriate, and sanctimonious. 

-scherzo(Ogami producing)

Maybe we could get a discount for a conference line or somethin'  For now on I'm checking with him on everything I post.  Yep,  green light for all posts for today.

RuReddy

#31 Nonprofit

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:47 PM

Quote

ZWolf
****** Thanks, Reddy, and you're to be commended for that. We've been doing some similar things down here, gathering clothes for the police, setting up shelters, organizing drives for money and supplies. Like I said before, the government can let us down and agencies can let us down, but the American people seldom do when the chips are down.

Thanks Z.  Right backatcha.
You can always count on the regular folks to lend a hand and give a few bucks in a time of need. Thats what makes us proud.

RuReddy

#32 Anarch

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:55 PM

Quote

The Dems had a horrible one in Jimmy Carter.

FTR, Carter wasn't nearly as bad as people maintain.  See, e.g., here.

[Interestingly, he did initiate a number of poor foreign-policy endeavours that were then enthusiastically continued by the Reagan administration.  Make of that what you will.

#33 Anarch

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 01:58 PM

And, while I'm here:

Quote

25 threads full of hate blaming the Feds, FEMA and Bush isn't that enough?

Until those who have done wrong are held accountable, no.  And it's not hate, it's anger at criminal negligence and incompetence that has killed thousands and left hundreds of thousands more bereft.

#34 Cait

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:00 PM

Anarch, on Sep 8 2005, 11:58 AM, said:

And, while I'm here:

Quote

25 threads full of hate blaming the Feds, FEMA and Bush isn't that enough?

Until those who have done wrong are held accountable, no.  And it's not hate, it's anger at criminal negligence and incompetence that has killed thousands and left hundreds of thousands more bereft.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


And can we hear another Amen from the choir!!!

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#35 Nonprofit

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:12 PM

Quote

Anarch Posted Today, 01:58 PM
  And, while I'm here:

Quote

25 threads full of hate blaming the Feds, FEMA and Bush isn't that enough?

Until those who have done wrong are held accountable, no. And it's not hate, it's anger at criminal negligence and incompetence that has killed thousands and left hundreds of thousands more bereft.

Oh its hate,  for some.... trust me.   I wish you the best and lots of anger to fuel those 25 threads.

RuReddy

#36 Lin731

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:15 PM

Quote

Oh its hate, for some.... trust me. I wish you the best and lots of anger to fuel those 25 threads.


Amen Sistah Cait!

Quote

Oh its hate, for some.... trust me. I wish you the best and lots of anger to fuel those 25 threads.


Yep you're right, it's hate...I hate incompetence and stupidity.
Posted Image
Posted Image

#37 Nonny

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:19 PM

RuReddy1, on Sep 8 2005, 10:08 AM, said:

What do you think?  How much have you done for the folks that are displaced? How much do you really care?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I commend you for what you've done.  I am doing what I'm doing privately and through the VA.  Something to think about when the physical relief efforts start winding up, though: what happens to all the people left with serious mental problems?  I hope it isn't going to be the good old American ignore, marginalize and demonize.  Counselors who rely on the old standby of, you think you have it so bad why here's somebody worse off than you so shut up and pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, are not going to cut it anymore.  I'm helping now, but this is when I'm really going to hit my stride.  

RuReddy1, on Sep 8 2005, 10:08 AM, said:

Your concern about a smilie face on a thread.  Whoa .  You would think with all the hate, anger, piss and vinegar on this board concerning the Katrina issue already in sooo many threads, you could leave just one opposing positive thread alone.  You hate folks have had the run of the board from what I can see for the last week. Running over the few who dare to post anything but hate. Sorry but I'm not going to be one of those haters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How positive is it to grind our faces into the facts that Bush et al will probably spin and spin and spin until they get away with dropping their end and manage to pass all the responsibility for this horrifying tragedy on others?  You can call what we're posting "hate" all you want, but what I'm posting, as are many others here, is a much broader band of emotion, starting with shock; going through fury, anger and rage at the clusterf***s; the happiness of the heartbroken at the stories of personal heroics; tears of the deepest grief for people we never knew; despair at the enormity of the tragedy; so much more.  

And for me add a grim determination to never again speak to a good Christian neighbor who laughed about all the newly orphaned children and the parents who lost children, saying, "they breed like flies," as if the suffering poor don't matter as individuals.  

RuReddy1, on Sep 8 2005, 10:08 AM, said:

Is the main concern here,  blaming everything on Bush? Hating him so much you'll do anything to squash a  thread that might say the slightest good thing about him? Sheeeez......25 threads full of hate blaming the Feds, FEMA and Bush isn't that enough?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If all you can see in our posts is hate, then maybe you're not reading us right.  

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#38 Zwolf

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:29 PM

Quote

FTR, Carter wasn't nearly as bad as people maintain. See, e.g., here.

******* I think Carter's a heckuva nice man and a very good guy... but he just wasn't suited for the job he held, in my opinion.

Quote

[Interestingly, he did initiate a number of poor foreign-policy endeavours that were then enthusiastically continued by the Reagan administration. Make of that what you will.

****** I wasn't crazy about Reagan, either.  :)  But W's making them all look good in comparison...

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#39 Kosh

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:52 PM

MuseZack, on Sep 7 2005, 11:23 PM, said:

If the mods feel I crossed a line into personal attacks, I'm happy to edit.  However, I think 4 and 5 are legitimate questions.  I honestly wanted to know whether RuReddy was interested in the underlying fact set, or simply the polling data.  And I think it's also legitimate to know whether or not someone is acting as a conduit/mouthpiece for a banned poster. 

But again, if the mods feel differently, I'm happy to edit.  I know it's a judgement call, and I'm willing to pull back if it serves the greater interests of the board.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



You are too nice a guy Zack.
Can't Touch This!!

#40 Anarch

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:58 PM

Zwolf666, on Sep 8 2005, 07:29 PM, said:

******* I think Carter's a heckuva nice man and a very good guy... but he just wasn't suited for the job he held, in my opinion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


While I grant the basic point, I think Carter was in large part the victim of circumstance.  The oil shock, for example; I don't think anyone had predicted that the American people could countenance almost any conceivable policy except one which resulted in higher gas prices.  [Frankly, I still can't believe it.]  A great president might have been able to salvage the situation*, that's true -- so I guess we've proven that Carter wasn't a great president ;) -- but I'm hard-pressed to think of any normal president who could have done anything about it while remaining true to American ideals.

The main problem Carter had, IMO, was that after Watergate people wanted a President who was sort of the polar opposite of Nixon... which included, rightly or wrongly, making people feel good about themselves and their country again irrespective of whether they'd actually earned it.  I completely agree Carter was ill-suited for that part of the job.  I'm not convinced, however, that random "feelgoodness" is an appropriate function of the presidency anyway.

To all the above, gentle reader: YMMV.

* I should note again here that Carter was the president who appointed Volcker, the ultimate savior (in a certain sense) of the American economy.



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