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New CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll & ABC poll

Top News 2005 Katrina Bush Gov't failures CNN/Gallup poll

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#41 Kevin Street

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 02:59 PM

RuReddy1 said:

Anarch said:

RuReddy1 said:

25 threads full of hate blaming the Feds, FEMA and Bush isn't that enough?

Until those who have done wrong are held accountable, no. And it's not hate, it's anger at criminal negligence and incompetence that has killed thousands and left hundreds of thousands more bereft.

Oh its hate,  for some.... trust me.   I wish you the best and lots of anger to fuel those 25 threads.

No, it's not hate. And frankly, I don't understand how you can say that. People here are angry because a lot of other people on the Gulf Coast are now dead. Needlessly dead, because the United States had more than enough resources available to save many of them, but for whatever reason those resources were not deployed. The government dragged its heels while FEMA actively impeded rescue efforts. That's the long and the short of it.

The world doesn't revolve around George Bush, and it doesn't make everything okay if some poll says that people still like him. That doesn't bring back the dead.
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#42 Anarch

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 03:15 PM

Quote

The world doesn't revolve around George Bush, and it doesn't make everything okay if some poll says that people still like him.

Even though most don't.

#43 Cait

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 03:48 PM

RuReddy1, on Sep 8 2005, 12:12 PM, said:

Oh its hate,  for some.... trust me.   I wish you the best and lots of anger to fuel those 25 threads.

RuReddy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Can you not allow that Katrina and all the damage that has been done is something that many of us are ligitmately outraged about?  You strike me as someone who cannot even allow for genuine outrage at the deaths and displacement of so many people.  

You attribute hatred for some, but you display an inability to look at things with any sense of clarity.  This is a tragedy.  People are appropriately outraged, and that outrage will likely continue.  I'm sorry if it appears to be directed at your flavor of the week.  He and his staff are the one's charged with the security and protection of citizens.  That's one of the primary functions of government.  We're entitled to question things when we're not protected and secure. [Yes, this applies to local and state government as well, but the Fed's are charged with responsibility in National Emergencies, just go read the HLS website]

We've all seen our leaders stumble and fall--been there and bought the Tee-shirt.  When Reagan was vilified for Iran-Contra, when Clinton was impeached, and yes, now, when Bush is called to account for what has occurred on his watch.  

It's hard to accept that in a situation your leader may have made a mistake, and it can seem like all the criticism that has been leveled, is merely a "See, we told you so", but for many of us it's just not.  You need to make the distinction because you sound like an apologist who can't even consider that there might have been some mistakes made by the Fed's.  [and I hope you will notice that I always say "The Fed's" and refrain from vilifying Bush personally. I hope you notice because I'm not a Bush hater and never have been.  I am however a concerned citizen and I want answers.  I get angry when people die and we're apparently unprepared to take effective action. You should be too IMHO.

It's not hatred for MANY, and you'd do well to try and see the difference between partisan politics and a genuine outcry for answers from citizen who are alarmed and angry.

I'd add that much of your apparent attitude just seems to be pouting because your guy is on the hot seat. Well, he's the President and you know what, the buck does stop with him.  He'll get himself off that hot seat and carry on with his presidency, or he won't, but that will have little to do with any hatred on the part of posters on EI.

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Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

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#44 Nonprofit

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 03:48 PM

Quote

Kevin Street Posted Today, 02:59 PM
No, it's not hate. And frankly, I don't understand how you can say that. People here are angry because a lot of other people on the Gulf Coast are now dead. Needlessly dead, because the United States had more than enough resources available to save many of them, but for whatever reason those resources were not deployed. The government dragged its heels while FEMA actively impeded rescue efforts. That's the long and the short of it.

The world doesn't revolve around George Bush, and it doesn't make everything okay if some poll says that people still like him. That doesn't bring back the dead.

Golly gee Kevin.....:wow:

Can we just for a moment think back,  prior to Katrina? And the mood of the members concerning President Bush.  I seem to recall some favorite names for the man by those who,  what like him?  Post nasty things just trying to get a rise from the right.  hmmm remember?  Thats what I'm talking about,  that hate. Katrina just gives them the leeway to post their hate and its justified for them until the facts come out.   But thats alright some folks like to stay angry its their natural way.  I say go for it... Me,  I like to find the good in folks.

Both of these polls as I said in my first post,  shows how "even" things are among the American thinking folks.  They are not divided,  folks are much smarter not to place blame on Bush for everything.  Its far too soon to know what has happened. And we still have a long way to go.

Rureddy

#45 Spectacles

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 03:55 PM

Quote

Ru: Both of these polls as I said in my first post, shows how "even" things are among the American thinking folks. They are not divided, folks are much smarter not to place blame on Bush for everything. Its far too soon to know what has happened. And we still have a long way to go.

Did you see the more recent polls, Ru? What do you think of them?

Frankly, I'm relieved to see that Bush is getting horrible marks for his response to Katrina. He deserves them. That's not to say that Blanda and Nagin and Barbour don't deserve an ass-rakin', too.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#46 HubcapDave

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 03:59 PM

To be fair to RuReddy, he does have a point that while there is blame to spread around to all levels of government, the people on this board have been quite meticulous in chronicling errors made by the feds, not so much on the local and state level.

While I don't think that people around here are rising to Randi Rhoads level of absurdity in their criticism, the bias prevalent in this forum does show rather clearly.

#47 Eskaminzim

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 04:09 PM

Hubcap Dave:

I was wondering if you saw something I didn't, and if you did, if you could point it out to me, because I think I'm missing something.  And no, I'm not being at all sarcastic.  Honestly.  

What I see in most (not all, but most) of the posters here who are angry at Bush is that while their ire might be more at Bush than the local government, most of them ARE stating (if even in tiny letters) that the state and local governments do have their share of blame in this.

However, and here's where I may be missing something, the, for lack of a better term (and hope that this is not in any way offensive) "Bush apologists" haven't admitted, not a one of them, that Bush might even be a *little* bit at fault here.

So, at least the way I see things, to be fair to the folks angry at Bush, they're at least willing to spread the blame around to local, state and Fed, even if a little bit, where the "Bush apologists" are only willing to blame state and local government officials and pronounce Bush as pristine pure.

So, while the ones angry at him are willing to lay at least some of the blame elsewhere, the ones who love him aren't willing to lay ANY of the blame at his feet.

So, if one needs to be fair to one side, being fair to the other by acknowledging that is cool, IMHO.

Unless, as I said, I'm missing something, which with me, is always more than possible.

#48 MuseZack

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 04:19 PM

HubcapDave, on Sep 8 2005, 08:59 PM, said:

To be fair to RuReddy, he does have a point that while there is blame to spread around to all levels of government, the people on this board have been quite meticulous in chronicling errors made by the feds, not so much on the local and state level.

While I don't think that people around here are rising to Randi Rhoads level of absurdity in their criticism, the bias prevalent in this forum does show rather clearly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Dave, part of it is that as sad as it is, screwups by the Louisiana and New Orleans governments are at the end of the day local in nature, while evidence of a federal government that four years after 9/11 and billions of dollars spent on homeland security appears less prepared than ever to deal with an overwhelming national emergency is something that should terrify and anger every American.  You mentioned being a Californian elsewhere-- if you live anywhere close to the Hayward or San Andreas faults, FEMA's response to Katrina should scare the hell out of you.

Edited by MuseZack, 08 September 2005 - 04:19 PM.

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#49 HubcapDave

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 04:29 PM

Eskaminzim, on Sep 8 2005, 02:09 PM, said:

Hubcap Dave:

I was wondering if you saw something I didn't, and if you did, if you could point it out to me, because I think I'm missing something.  And no, I'm not being at all sarcastic.  Honestly. 

What I see in most (not all, but most) of the posters here who are angry at Bush is that while their ire might be more at Bush than the local government, most of them ARE stating (if even in tiny letters) that the state and local governments do have their share of blame in this.

However, and here's where I may be missing something, the, for lack of a better term (and hope that this is not in any way offensive) "Bush apologists" haven't admitted, not a one of them, that Bush might even be a *little* bit at fault here.

So, at least the way I see things, to be fair to the folks angry at Bush, they're at least willing to spread the blame around to local, state and Fed, even if a little bit, where the "Bush apologists" are only willing to blame state and local government officials and pronounce Bush as pristine pure.

So, while the ones angry at him are willing to lay at least some of the blame elsewhere, the ones who love him aren't willing to lay ANY of the blame at his feet.

So, if one needs to be fair to one side, being fair to the other by acknowledging that is cool, IMHO.

Unless, as I said, I'm missing something, which with me, is always more than possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That's a fair question. Granted, I haven't read every single thread posted about Katrina and New Orleans. What I tended to perceive was that when criticism first started appearing, it was aimed squarely at the feds (and perforce Bush) and stayed that way until one of the more conservative posters noted the picture of the school buses swamped. Only then did I see any criticism  of the mayor or the Governor, and even then it was usually subsidiary to the Feds being at fault.

I'm only hoping that people will soon step back from partisan extremes that seem to color everything nowadays and assess things with a clear head!

#50 Cait

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 04:47 PM

MuseZack, on Sep 8 2005, 02:19 PM, said:

Dave, part of it is that as sad as it is, screwups by the Louisiana and New Orleans governments are at the end of the day local in nature, while evidence of a federal government that four years after 9/11 and billions of dollars spent on homeland security appears less prepared than ever to deal with an overwhelming national emergency is something that should terrify and anger every American.  You mentioned being a Californian elsewhere-- if you live anywhere close to the Hayward or San Andreas faults, FEMA's response to Katrina should scare the hell out of you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


What Zack said....

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

Source:
http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#51 Eskaminzim

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 04:50 PM

Hubcap Dave:

Thanks for responding!

I see what you're saying, and while I think I remember several posters willing to lay (subsidiary) blame on local officials pre the school bus incident, you do admit that you've seen it since, even if only a little.

But what about the very pro-Bush posters?  Even with all the evidence stacking up, I've yet to see from them what I've seen from the others when presented with evidence, which is a "well, ok, that is something I didn't realize" or whatever.

I can see upset where you (or anyone) doesn't lay more of the blame where you feel it might well be laid, but can you see the opposite, where someone might refuse to lay ANY blame at all on the Federal structures being examined here?

It's like I told G1223:  I, for one, am now and always have been willing to concede that much more could have been attempted (if not outright accomplished) by the mayor and the governor, and all I asked is if he would be willing to admit that FEMA and/or Bush could have done more as well.

I'm still waiting for that answer, but heck, I'm willing to wait.

#52 Lin731

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:03 PM

Quote

That's a fair question. Granted, I haven't read every single thread posted about Katrina and New Orleans. What I tended to perceive was that when criticism first started appearing, it was aimed squarely at the feds (and perforce Bush) and stayed that way until one of the more conservative posters noted the picture of the school buses swamped. Only then did I see any criticism of the mayor or the Governor, and even then it was usually subsidiary to the Feds being at fault.


HubcapDave,
I think part of why you've seen so much criticism of Bush, the Fed and FEMA was because of all the days AFTER the disaster that we saw next to nothing happening to help those people. What led up to the mess wasn't splattered across the news everyday, people weren't dead/dying, writing messages begging for help on the roofs of their houses, wadding through polluted, body strewn water, living on M&M's and begging anyone that would listen for food/water/evacuation. We watched the aftermath playing out on our TV screens all day, everyday and the Feds and FEMA left us shocked and angry. After all the money, after all the assurances that they we safer, that they were well organised and knew what they were doing...after all that, we watched a rescue effort run with all the competence of a Keystone Cop movie. For "me" I expect better from the Feds and Fema than what I saw going on for days and days after the flood. So for "me" I DO place more of my anger and disgust at the Fed level, they have alot more resources at their disposal than the states do and while the states dropped the ball too, I expect the Feds and FEMA to know what they're doing and they didn't. I think that's why you see more ire directed toward the Feds and Fema...HIGHER EXPECTATIONS. FEMA's purpose is to deal with diasaster, they have the resources, personel etc...that states don't have and yet they seemed clueless and often more of a hinderance than a help in rescuing those folks or providing them with food and water.
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#53 Anarch

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:06 PM

Quote

I'm only hoping that people will soon step back from partisan extremes that seem to color everything nowadays and assess things with a clear head!

You're assuming that partisanship (well, extremes of partisanship) and having a clear head are opposed.  That needn't be the case; and indeed, here, it seems very clear that it isn't the case.

For example, you correctly note that there were screwups at the local and state levels.  Not gonna argue with that.  What I will note, however, is that the Stafford Act (which covers disasters such as this) makes it clear that during an Incident of National Significance (? forget the term of art) the Federal government, specifically DHS & its agency FEMA, take primary responsibility for disaster management once the governor has requested federal aid and once the president has concurred, which happened on the 27th (retroactive to the 26th).  This is confirmed in both the National Response Plan (NRP) and the DHS mandate, both available on the DHS website.

[Additionally, one of the triggers of the NRP is specifically when the governor of the affected state claims that the disaster will "overwhelm" the resources available to the state and local authorities, rather obviously the case here.  Under such circumstances it's even more important for the Federal agencies to respond in a timely fashion.]

The upshot is that yes, if I were a Louisiana voter, I'd have to think long and hard about whether to vote for Nagin or Blanco in the future.  I'm not.  What's more, while they screwed up, at the moment their screw-ups appear to be on a fairly mundane level; to put it another way, I don't expect all that much out of the local and state governments in the first place simply because they don't have the resources at their disposal to handle an event of this magnitude.  [Hence the provisions of the Stafford Act and the NRP.]  The Federal government, otoh...

...well, let's just say, they're culpable.  Really, seriously, truly, madly, deeply culpable.  From the budget cuts to FEMA to the appointment of a succession of grotesquely underqualified managers, from the grandiose DHS rhetoric that is so transparently unjustified to the literally billions of dollars that have clearly been squandered, from the hijacking of qualified first responders into propaganda positions to the obstruction of aid to affected areas, from Bush's electoral claims of "strength" and "leadership"  to Cheney's claims that a Kerry win would make us vulnerable to attack... it's clear that the Bush Administration has been lying to us for four years and it's cost of thousands of innocent lives.

[BTW, anyone more bilious than I feel like comparing Bush's immediacy of response to Schiavo with his lackadaisical sauntering around Katrina?]

Now, it happens that all of these are Republican faults.  Tough noogies: when you control all three branches of government and something preventable goes wrong, yeah, it's pretty much your fault by definition.  Partisanship would be to say that it's the Republicans' fault, let's find out why; objectivity says, wow, the Feds screwed up big-time... and it happens that they're all Republicans.  As I said, tough noogies.  Rest assured that if these were Democrats who'd screwed up, or Libertarians, or Socialists, or whoever, I'd be calling for their heads as loudly, as angrily, and as clear-mindedly as I am right now.

To repeat what I said previously: people screwed up.  As a result, a whole lot more died.  Heads must roll.  And if it comes down hard on your party, well, I hope you like steak 'cause your sacred cow is gonna get slaughtered.

Edited by Anarch, 08 September 2005 - 05:06 PM.


#54 HubcapDave

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:07 PM

MuseZack, on Sep 8 2005, 02:19 PM, said:

HubcapDave, on Sep 8 2005, 08:59 PM, said:

To be fair to RuReddy, he does have a point that while there is blame to spread around to all levels of government, the people on this board have been quite meticulous in chronicling errors made by the feds, not so much on the local and state level.

While I don't think that people around here are rising to Randi Rhoads level of absurdity in their criticism, the bias prevalent in this forum does show rather clearly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Dave, part of it is that as sad as it is, screwups by the Louisiana and New Orleans governments are at the end of the day local in nature, while evidence of a federal government that four years after 9/11 and billions of dollars spent on homeland security appears less prepared than ever to deal with an overwhelming national emergency is something that should terrify and anger every American.  You mentioned being a Californian elsewhere-- if you live anywhere close to the Hayward or San Andreas faults, FEMA's response to Katrina should scare the hell out of you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Trust me Zack, I'm not giving the feds a free pass on this. And I'm in San Mateo, so the San Andreas passes just to the west of me. The thing that does worry me is that this disater is evidence that a bureaucracy is ill equiped to handle a large scale emergency. If we're lucky, the feds will notice that the most sucessful aspect of early relief was the Coast Guard and make FEMA more of a direct reponse rescue effort instead of a coordination group.

But those thousands you lamented dying earlier could possibly have been evacuated in the hundreds of buses left to become swamped.

#55 Spectacles

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:13 PM

Quote

Dave: What I tended to perceive was that when criticism first started appearing, it was aimed squarely at the feds (and perforce Bush) and stayed that way until one of the more conservative posters noted the picture of the school buses swamped. Only then did I see any criticism of the mayor or the Governor, and even then it was usually subsidiary to the Feds being at fault.

There was criticism of Nagin for not declaring a mandatory evacuation earlier. There was criticism of the evacuation. I was critical, and so were others.

The criticism of the federal response began when it became apparent that the feds weren't responding sufficiently.  And that became apparent by Tuesday, glaringly apparent by Wednesday, and painfully apparent on Thursday.  Other than the Coast Guard and the Wildlife and Fisheries Police, no one was plucking people off rooftops in New Orleans. People were dying before our eyes at the Convention Center in New Orleans.  People along the Mississippi Coast were without food and water and shelter because FEMA was missing in action. And, in short, the whole damned thing was maddening because the federal response was so slow as to be nonexistent until the end of the week. And there is still considerable confusion on the ground in New Orleans and all along the Gulf Coast, confusion that is costing people their lives.

And as exasperating as it may be to Bush-supporters to see the usual critics strike up the band, it is equally exasperating to see his defenders turn a blind eye to the absolute ineptness of FEMA and Homeland Security. Bush says Brownie's doing a great job, so it must be so. Rush says it's all the fault of Nagin and Blanda (leaving Mississippi's Republican governor out of the picture), so it must be so. But what do y'all do with the fact that even Michelle Malkin calls for FEMA's Brown to be fired? What do you do with Joe Scarborough's criticism of the federal response--and his criticism of some partisan Republican viewers who are trying to get him to shut up about it?  Who's really being the ultra-partisan here?

And as for "crying wolf," Scherzo, sorry, you're my friend (even if your politics are screwy ;) ), but it turns out that the Iraq War was a bad decision (See Iraq). So is a policy of cutting taxes and increasing spending (See the record deficit). So was bankruptcy reform (See Congress try to postpone that one). So have been any number of decisions and policies enacted by this administration--and most Americans agree (See Bush's poll numbers). And, yes, I've been fairly relentlessly critical of this administration, but I've been so because I care about this country.  You do, too, I know. We just differ on what we think is best for it. But, I swear, I don't see how anyone can think this administration has been good for us.

But beyond that, I'm disgusted with politicians in general--Republican and Democrat.  
Their primary interest is getting re-elected, and to do that they have to cozy up whatever corporation or special interest group can get out the vote on their behalf. Principles of good government take a backseat to cronyism....Hell, they're not even on the same bus.

And I'm disgusted with the American public for not reading the news, not staying informed, not voting.

This is what we get. Tragically.
"Facts are stupid things." -Ronald Reagan at the 1988 Republican National Convention, attempting to quote John Adams, who said, "Facts are stubborn things"

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#56 Lin731

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:30 PM

Quote

Trust me Zack, I'm not giving the feds a free pass on this. And I'm in San Mateo, so the San Andreas passes just to the west of me. The thing that does worry me is that this disater is evidence that a bureaucracy is ill equiped to handle a large scale emergency. If we're lucky, the feds will notice that the most sucessful aspect of early relief was the Coast Guard and make FEMA more of a direct reponse rescue effort instead of a coordination group.

But those thousands you lamented dying earlier could possibly have been evacuated in the hundreds of buses left to become swamped.


The bureaucracy wasn't the cause of the problem though, gutting FEMA as it had existed was the problem. They completely skewed the organisation away from what used to be it's primary function...disaster relief and focused it on terrorism and responding to that. Then to make matters worse, they put a guy in charge of it that had no business in such a postion. Fema is only as good as the team in place running it and the team in place running it is NOT competent to do the job.
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#57 G1223

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:54 PM

HubcapDave, on Sep 8 2005, 08:59 PM, said:

To be fair to RuReddy, he does have a point that while there is blame to spread around to all levels of government, the people on this board have been quite meticulous in chronicling errors made by the feds, not so much on the local and state level.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



But Dave the state and local people are blameless. The folks here going after Bush are not wanting to take any action that could take away from their anger.  They have as shown by thread after thread where everything is Bush's fault or it was just too much for the poor local to deal with. They are so willing to bend over backwards to do anythingto bad mouth Bush and if that means ignoring facts then so be it.
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#58 HubcapDave

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 05:56 PM

Lin731, on Sep 8 2005, 03:30 PM, said:

Quote

Trust me Zack, I'm not giving the feds a free pass on this. And I'm in San Mateo, so the San Andreas passes just to the west of me. The thing that does worry me is that this disater is evidence that a bureaucracy is ill equiped to handle a large scale emergency. If we're lucky, the feds will notice that the most sucessful aspect of early relief was the Coast Guard and make FEMA more of a direct reponse rescue effort instead of a coordination group.

But those thousands you lamented dying earlier could possibly have been evacuated in the hundreds of buses left to become swamped.

The bureaucracy wasn't the cause of the problem though, gutting FEMA as it had existed was the problem. They completely skewed the organisation away from what used to be it's primary function...disaster relief and focused it on terrorism and responding to that. Then to make matters worse, they put a guy in charge of it that had no business in such a postion. Fema is only as good as the team in place running it and the team in place running it is NOT competent to do the job.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I have a question: if FEMA is such a shell of it's former self, why haven't I heard any criticism of their efforts in last year's storms? If there was, I sure as hell don't remember hearing it.

#59 Nonny

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Posted 08 September 2005 - 06:00 PM

Cait, on Sep 8 2005, 12:48 PM, said:

RuReddy1, on Sep 8 2005, 12:12 PM, said:


Oh its hate,  for some.... trust me.   I wish you the best and lots of anger to fuel those 25 threads.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you not allow that Katrina and all the damage that has been done is something that many of us are ligitmately outraged about?  You strike me as someone who cannot even allow for genuine outrage at the deaths and displacement of so many people.

You attribute hatred for some, but you display an inability to look at things with any sense of clarity.  This is a tragedy.  People are appropriately outraged, and that outrage will likely continue.  I'm sorry if it appears to be directed at your flavor of the week.  He and his staff are the one's charged with the security and protection of citizens.  That's one of the primary functions of government.  We're entitled to question things when we're not protected and secure. [Yes, this applies to local and state government as well, but the Fed's are charged with responsibility in National Emergencies, just go read the HLS website]

We've all seen our leaders stumble and fall--been there and bought the Tee-shirt.  When Reagan was vilified for Iran-Contra, when Clinton was impeached, and yes, now, when Bush is called to account for what has occurred on his watch.  

It's hard to accept that in a situation your leader may have made a mistake, and it can seem like all the criticism that has been leveled, is merely a "See, we told you so", but for many of us it's just not.  You need to make the distinction because you sound like an apologist who can't even consider that there might have been some mistakes made by the Fed's.  [and I hope you will notice that I always say "The Fed's" and refrain from vilifying Bush personally. I hope you notice because I'm not a Bush hater and never have been.  I am however a concerned citizen and I want answers.  I get angry when people die and we're apparently unprepared to take effective action. You should be too IMHO.

It's not hatred for MANY, and you'd do well to try and see the difference between partisan politics and a genuine outcry for answers from citizen who are alarmed and angry.

I'd add that much of your apparent attitude just seems to be pouting because your guy is on the hot seat. Well, he's the President and you know what, the buck does stop with him.  He'll get himself off that hot seat and carry on with his presidency, or he won't, but that will have little to do with any hatred on the part of posters on EI.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What Cait said!

Nonny
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The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#60 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 08 September 2005 - 06:03 PM

Quote

But Dave the state and local people are blameless. The folks here going after Bush are not wanting to take any action that could take away from their anger. They have as shown by thread after thread where everything is Bush's fault or it was just too much for the poor local to deal with. They are so willing to bend over backwards to do anythingto bad mouth Bush and if that means ignoring facts then so be it.

******* Do you actually READ anybody else's posts around here, G?   Or do you just not give a damn about your credibility?  Nobody has said that the state and local officials are blameless.  

You say this stuff, you don't even read any of the evidence - hell, up until about three days ago you didn't even know the governor of Louisiana was a woman - and then accuse other people of "ignoring facts."  

I'm glad you're not on my side...

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Top News 2005, Katrina, Bush, Gov't failures, CNN/Gallup poll

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