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Katrina Top News 2005 Aftermath

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#21 Kosh

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 03:36 PM

The name of the author's Blog is "Right wing Nuthouse", kind of says it all. I think all he is really doing here is aping Rush Limbaugh, who said much the same thing yesterday. I think this is one of those guys who lets the party think for him, instead of the other way around.
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#22 emsparks

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 03:44 PM

With all due respect you good folks just don’t get it…

Without the poor the right wouldn’t have workers to exploit, so they keep the school systems in their current shape to make more poor. Which is fine with the democrats, they need the poor as a constituency, and charity cases that they can minister to in order to assuage their guilt for not being poor. The real difference between the Democrats and Republicans is the Democrats have guilt feelings over the exploitation of the poor, while the republicans do not, choosing to believe that the poor brought their living conditions on themselves.

Right now today we know enough to dispel the vast majority of poverty if only we chose to do so, but the number of people living in poverty is increasing in this country. The number of poor in this country is increasing because we are unwilling to change the antiquated mercantile system by which we function, which is just fine with both the Democrats and Republicans, as it puts food on their tables. It’s ok to rattle the cage but “don’t rock the boat.”

Shortly your going to hear talk about revitalizing New Orleans, instead of rebuilding the destroyed housing.

Edited to add.
When New Orleans is “rebuilt” you will here a sanitized, corporate, bean counter, mass audience:  form of Jazz, but never again will you hear true Jazz, or down and dirty blues on the streets of New Orleans. The heart of the city has been ripped out and moved to Texas, where they don’t allow such goings on in a Christian community.

Edited by emsparks, 09 September 2005 - 04:02 PM.

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#23 Kosh

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 04:05 PM

Quote

The number of poor in this country is increasing because we are unwilling to change the antiquated mercantile system by which we function

I wont get to read it till next week, but if you have time, please expand on what you mean here. I don't disbelieve you. I just don't understand.
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#24 Natolii

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 04:09 PM

To begin with,

Anyone that disagrees with how things have been run is "Leftist," didn't you not know that?

RuReddy is pretty much toeing the line that I am seeing here with this post, on PoserPros.com with posts made by Splat & Xenophonz...

Now I'm gonna quote something at the one site where at least you can speak your mind without being attacked.

"Ironbear - Renderotica" said:

I'd say that for the most part, the facts are only relevant to a handful of posters here like you, me, Lilliana, maybe Dem, and the RFI (Radio Free Ironbear) crowd. We don't have a stake involved in building a narrative, we're just trying to sort through the crap.

Lilliana is my alt there, folks. And that is what I am doing, sorting through the crap...

My response to this?

"Lilliana aka Me" said:

I've got the shovels!

The Bs is getting quite thick in some areas.

My stance on the matter, lose the politicians and start the system over from square one.

And people wonder why I hate politics?
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#25 emsparks

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 04:34 PM

Kosh, on Sep 9 2005, 05:05 PM, said:

Quote

The number of poor in this country is increasing because we are unwilling to change the antiquated mercantile system by which we function

I wont get to read it till next week, but if you have time, please expand on what you mean here. I don't disbelieve you. I just don't understand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Meaning no disrespect I don’t have the physical wherewithal to rehash the whole globalization, outsourcing, off shoring, intellectual property, lowest price labor, balance of payments thing. In short people have to have jobs, we can’t keep sending what jobs we have over seas.

It all comes down to economics.

Maybe by the time you read this I will be able to give you a lively conversation. Politics is about who controls the money.
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#26 Anarch

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 04:43 PM

Kevin Street,

Quote

What the President needs to do is the unexpected. Americans will back a President after he makes a mistake only when he admits the error in public and asks for forgiveness. Reagan and Clinton both made monumental errors in their second terms and yet finished their times in office with the strong support and even affection of the American people because they recognized their mistakes, apologized for them, and moved on to bigger and better things.

As the Bush Administration proves time and time again, this is simply false.  Bush has not only never admitted a mistake, he's flat-out denied ever having made a mistake... and up until recently, his popularity hadn't suffered a whit.

In re the original post: it's hard to formulate a cogent response to the sight of someone vomiting bilious strawmen all over the carpet.  If RuReddy (or others) would care to reconsider their point and perhaps concoct an argument that isn't egregiously bullsh** on its face, I don't doubt that it would be engaged in constructive debate.

#27 Anarch

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 04:58 PM

Jon Carroll makes a good point in today's SF Chronicle:

Some will say: We have to move on. I think that is what I will say the next time I am charged with murder: Let's not play the blame game. Let's not start pointing fingers. It is time to move on. It is time to make sure that more murders do not happen. Won't you join me in this national campaign against murder? God bless America.

#28 Cait

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 05:08 PM

^ good piece,  thanks for the link...

I particularity liked this paragraph.

Quote

There would be a digital trail, and they would follow it. They would discover who the culprit was, and they would take appropriate steps. They would play the blame game, and it would not seem like recreation to them or to me. They would want to assign responsibility, which is just like playing the blame game except it doesn't rhyme.

Rules for surviving an Autocracy:

Rule#1: Believe the Autocrat.
Rule#2: Do not be taken in by small signs of normality.
Rule#3: Institutions will not save you.
Rule#4: Be outraged.
Rule#5: Don't make compromises.
Rule#6: Remember the future.

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http://www2.nybooks....r-survival.html


#29 G1223

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 05:25 PM

emsparks, on Sep 9 2005, 08:44 PM, said:

With all due respect you good folks just don’t get it…

Without the poor the right wouldn’t have workers to exploit, so they keep the school systems in their current shape to make more poor. Which is fine with the democrats, they need the poor as a constituency, and charity cases that they can minister to in order to assuage their guilt for not being poor. The real difference between the Democrats and Republicans is the Democrats have guilt feelings over the exploitation of the poor, while the republicans do not, choosing to believe that the poor brought their living conditions on themselves.


<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah they feeling guilty as they cash the checks given to them by political action groups. Yeah I feel their guilt it appears when they get caught and never gets run for as long as the republicans in the media.
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#30 scherzo

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 05:36 PM

Quote

With all due respect you good folks just don't get it…

Without the poor the right wouldn't have workers to exploit, so they keep the school systems in their current shape to make more poor.
Is there such a thing as a "worker" who is NOT being exploited by his employer?

Do the "poor" have any personal responsibility for their circumstances?

Is producing "workers" the sole motivation for the right's purposeful "creation" of more poor?

If bad schools are what's making more poor, doesn't this imply that lack of education is the principle factor in joining the ranks of  the exploited poor?

Do school's controlled by the left have higher academic standards, or have the right assumed complete control of all education?

How does swelling the ranks of the "poor" promote the right's ability to maintain political office?

These are just the first few questions that occurred to me after reading the sentence that followed "you good folks just don't get it..., but I'm sure an extremely interesting and non-Marxist response will explain it all neatly. I'll be the first to admit I don't get it, so can you clear it up for me.

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#31 scherzo

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 05:47 PM

Quote

Some will say: We have to move on. I think that is what I will say the next time I am charged with murder:
Just how many times has this guy been charged with murder? :blink:

I assume Carroll's article to be referencing the NO flood disaster but I'm confused by the language he's using. Is it being said in SF that government officials are murderers? :crazy:

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#32 emsparks

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 05:52 PM

G1223, on Sep 9 2005, 06:25 PM, said:

emsparks, on Sep 9 2005, 08:44 PM, said:

With all due respect you good folks just don’t get it…

Without the poor the right wouldn’t have workers to exploit, so they keep the school systems in their current shape to make more poor. Which is fine with the democrats, they need the poor as a constituency, and charity cases that they can minister to in order to assuage their guilt for not being poor. The real difference between the Democrats and Republicans is the Democrats have guilt feelings over the exploitation of the poor, while the republicans do not, choosing to believe that the poor brought their living conditions on themselves.


<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Yeah they feeling guilty as they cash the checks given to them by political action groups. Yeah I feel their guilt it appears when they get caught and never gets run for as long as the republicans in the media.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


So you feel their pain…

My heart bleeds for you… Cold borsch…
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#33 Anarch

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 05:59 PM

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 10:47 PM, said:

I assume Carroll's article to be referencing the NO flood disaster but I'm confused by the language he's using. Is it being said in SF that government officials are murderers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Can I suggest you, y'know, read the article?

#34 scherzo

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 06:11 PM

^I did.

Question now is...did you? :blink:  He doesn't specifically reference New orleans at all. I assume that's what he means but his article is all over the place.

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"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#35 Anarch

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 06:19 PM

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 11:11 PM, said:

^I did.

Question now is...did you? :blink:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


I always read what I link.

Quote

I assume that's what he means but his article is all over the place.

Given that his article is referring to "the blame game", and given that the current instantiation of this Bush Administration specialty pertains to Federal mismanagement of Katrina -- note specifically Federal, since the Bush Administration has no problem whatsoever blaming the hell out of state and local authorities -- I'd say it's pretty clear what he's talking about.  What, precisely, are you confused about?

#36 scherzo

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 06:39 PM

Quote

Given that his article is referring to "the blame game", and given that the current instantiation of this Bush Administration specialty pertains to Federal mismanagement of Katrina -- note specifically Federal, since the Bush Administration has no problem whatsoever blaming the hell out of state and local authorities -- I'd say it's pretty clear what he's talking about. What, precisely, are you confused about?
I indulged you and read the thing a second time, and no where does it say if the actions of government officials are being called "murder" in SF. You re-directed me to your link as if I missed the answer, which led me to think maybe you actual DON'T read what you post.  I'll assume you simply misunderstood the question, but it was an easy one: Are they calling government officials murderers in SF? My exact words are merely a scroll away. If you don't know the answer that's fine, but if we assume correctly Carroll's article is about NO, you can't begrudge a few pointed questions about why he approaches the subject like he does.

-scherzo
"Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so."    -Ronald Reagan, October 27 1964
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#37 Spectacles

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 06:50 PM

Scherzo,

You asked if officials are being accused of murder in San Francisco? Am I right?

Short answer: no. (And neither is Melissa Etheredge nor The Mormon Tabernacle Choir nor Joe Montana  ;) .)

Quote

It is my understanding that good managers often seek to discover who was responsible for what. (The function of bureaucracy is to disguise the origin and nature of a mistake, so CYA procedures are always fully in place.) You'd think that if the mistake at hand involved many dead bodies, it might be necessary to discover who was to blame.

Some will say: There's plenty of blame to go around. That is true, but not really. I, for instance, am not to blame. Melissa Etheredge is not to blame. The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is not to blame. Joe Montana is not to blame. I think you could probably cut the number of culprits down pretty quickly.

Some will say: We have to move on. I think that is what I will say the next time I am charged with murder: Let's not play the blame game. Let's not start pointing fingers. It is time to move on. It is time to make sure that more murders do not happen. Won't you join me in this national campaign against murder? God bless America.


He's talking about the  "blame game" we're not supposed to play because (a) there's plenty of blame to go around--so lets' not hold anyone responsible or (b) we have to move on--so let's not hold anyone responsible. And he's apparently talking about the
slow relief efforts in NO and Mississippi.
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#38 emsparks

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 06:54 PM

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

These are just the first few questions that occurred to me after reading the sentence that followed "you good folks just don't get it..., but I'm sure an extremely interesting and non-Marxist response will explain it all neatly. I'll be the first to admit I don't get it, so can you clear it up for me.
-scherzo

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Marx was a rank amateur, who didn’t do his homework.

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

Is there such a thing as a "worker" who is NOT being exploited by his employer?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, there are fair, and even excellent employers. However they are few and far between.

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

Do the "poor" have any personal responsibility for their circumstances?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Given that the ranks of the poor are almost universally made up of the neurologically disabled, the mentally ill and the lower end of the intelligence curve the answer to the question is no… Stop making the rather false assumption that every body has the same mental abilities that you do, they don’t not by a long shot.

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

Is producing "workers" the sole motivation for the right's purposeful "creation" of more poor?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In a word “Yes,” see the next question. Workers with low wage, and working conditions expectations, people that are so poor as to sell their rights as workers for a piece of bread.

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

If bad schools are what's making more poor, doesn't this imply that lack of education is the principle factor in joining the ranks of  the exploited poor?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To start off with there is nothing wrong with the American school systems. They are doing exactly what they where designed to do. That is to supply a bifurcated work force. The majority of that work force is the factory floor worker.  People that can barely read, and can do small mathematical problems like simple addition, and subtraction. People that have been conditioned by educational tracking systems: to have a lowered expectation as to wages and living conditions, the kids in the vocational education tracks. The second group of students, about 20-25% of the student population, what is called the College prep kids, are to be the moderately well educated managerial class. You really do need to read up on the American eugenics movement, and a little thing called “the divine right of industrialist.” AND no the left didn’t invent the term the industrialist themselves did. The industrialist felt and said that since God had given then the genes to be industrialist, God had chosen them to lead the country.

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

Do school's controlled by the left have higher academic standards, or have the right assumed complete control of all education?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the day when the current education system was designed government did not fund academic research, the industrialist did. In those days just before Marx there was no right and no left. If you read the history of education you will find that then academics the world that spawns the majority of leftist, designed and built the current educational system for the industrialist, based on the rules of eugenics and social Darwinism.

scherzo, on Sep 9 2005, 06:36 PM, said:

How does swelling the ranks of the "poor" promote the right's ability to maintain political office?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Money is power, votes are only a secondary issue. Would you leave work knowing you’d lose a day's pay to go and vote? Would you report a wage hour violation knowing that you didn’t know where your next pay check would come from, and your daughter is sick. Poverty nullifies all the work place laws…

Edited by emsparks, 09 September 2005 - 08:03 PM.

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#39 waterpanther

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 06:56 PM

It's the same old fill-in-the-blank right wingnut rant:


Liberals could hardly contain their joy when the planes hit the WTC.

Liberals are filled with glee each time an American soldier dies in Iraq.

Now liberals are delighted one of the world's unique cities and its population lie devastated.  

Etc., etc. spin, lie, spin some more, eye of newt and toe of frog, lie, spin, bloviate, da capo al fine.  How boring. Can't these idjits even come up with a new lie?
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#40 Natolii

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Posted 09 September 2005 - 07:18 PM

It is rather disgusting that such trash is allowed to be published... And that people actually believe it despite the fact it flies against all common sense and decency.

The only one Dancing on the Graves of the Dead is Fred Phelps.

Didn't know people here would ascribe to his asanine beliefs.
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