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#1 LoPs Bro

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 11:28 PM

I understand that many of you may have questions about Christianity and the Bible. I am here to try to answer or help you find the answer. Post your question and I will try to answer within 24 to 48 hours depending upon my work schedule. I am not here to cause any problems just to answer your questions.

I have been a student of the Bible virtually all of my life and I continue to try to study daily. I have read and studied under several different teachers, not all from the same backgrounds. I have numerous resources to draw from, not just from the Bible. I also may be able to provide links for you to check out.

I really am LoP's brother, but you can call me Bro.



Let the questions begin!!!!! :)



Bro

#2 CJ AEGIS

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 11:40 PM

Just wanted to say welcome to Ex Isle and OT.  :D  I'll save questions for when I'm not so tired. ;)

Edited by CJ AEGIS, 18 September 2005 - 11:41 PM.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#3 LoPs Bro

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 11:52 PM

Thanks! CJ Aegis :D

#4 Lover of Purple

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Posted 18 September 2005 - 11:52 PM

And, as a brother should I have started a welcome thread for ya.

Here:

http://www.exisle.ne...showtopic=31545

#5 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 12:06 AM

Ooo...me first.

Bro, first welcome to the Isle.

Ok, can a human being who's never been exposed to the Word of God still walk in the Grace of Christ by sincerely loving and serving his fellow man...ie: feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, minstering to the sick, etc...so long as he does it out of love?
The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#6 LoPs Bro

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 12:23 AM

You can't walk in His grace without Him. Biblical grace is getting His unmerited favor ( ie: not getting what you deserve.) To walk in His grace you must walk with Him. For you cannot be in His grace without Him.

Great question.

#7 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 12:39 AM

LoPs Bro, on Sep 19 2005, 12:23 AM, said:

You can't walk in His grace without Him. Biblical grace is getting His unmerited favor ( ie: not getting what you deserve.) To walk in His grace you must walk with Him. For you cannot be in His grace without Him.

Great question.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Thank you.

Another...building on what you said: do you then disagree with John Wesley's concept of "prevenient grace?"

Edited by CoyoteUgly, 19 September 2005 - 12:40 AM.

The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#8 LoPs Bro

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 01:43 AM

No, I do agree because one can anticipate grace but still not be in it. To walk in His grace you need to first experience His grace, which only comes through Him. Jesus said,"Apart from me you can do nothing". So, you need Him to walk in His grace.

I hope this answers your question.

#9 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 02:00 AM

Thank you, yes.  Prevenient grace is the grace given to all human beings by virtue of being God's special creation.

One more question, then I'll leave you alone. ;)

Since salvation is made available to all humankind, and obviously humans have lived and died since the time of Christ who have not heard the Gospel, what avenue of salvation from Hell do these individuals have?

Edited by CoyoteUgly, 19 September 2005 - 02:01 AM.

The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#10 LoPs Bro

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 10:13 PM

CoyoteUgly, on Sep 19 2005, 12:00 AM, said:

Thank you, yes.  Prevenient grace is the grace given to all human beings by virtue of being God's special creation.

One more question, then I'll leave you alone. ;)

Since salvation is made available to all humankind, and obviously humans have lived and died since the time of Christ who have not heard the Gospel, what avenue of salvation from Hell do these individuals have?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Sadly, none. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me." Nature also testifies of the presence of God. A person has no excuse to really reject God. Jesus also said, "All sin will be forgiven man except the sin of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is when a person continually rejects Jesus Christ and finally dies in that place of rejection, there is therefore no forgiveness of sins leading to salvation for that person. They are lost forever. Salvation is only through a belief in Jesus' atoning sacrafice upon the cross and accepting Him as Lord and Savior.

#11 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 10:22 PM

Yes, thank you.  You just answered the big $100,000 hot tamale question that I had in the back of my mind.
The Future...Unless Things Change.

And how am I to face the odds, of man's bedevilment and God's, I a stranger and afraid in a world I never made? A.E. Housman (1859-1936)

#12 deMona

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 10:54 PM

CoyoteUgly, on Sep 19 2005, 02:00 AM, said:

Since salvation is made available to all humankind, and obviously humans have lived and died since the time of Christ who have not heard the Gospel, what avenue of salvation from Hell do these individuals have?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



the catholic chuch teaches this:

Quote

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

-  ccc 847

Edited by deMona, 19 September 2005 - 10:58 PM.

Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'Ni!' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.

#13 LoPs Bro

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 11:14 PM

CoyoteUgly, on Sep 19 2005, 08:22 PM, said:

Yes, thank you.  You just answered the big $100,000 hot tamale question that I had in the back of my mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



You're welcome

#14 LoPs Bro

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 11:15 PM

deMona, on Sep 19 2005, 08:54 PM, said:

CoyoteUgly, on Sep 19 2005, 02:00 AM, said:

Since salvation is made available to all humankind, and obviously humans have lived and died since the time of Christ who have not heard the Gospel, what avenue of salvation from Hell do these individuals have?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



the catholic chuch teaches this:

Quote

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

- ccc 847

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Unfortunately that is not what the Bible, and Jesus teach. Thanks for your imput.

#15 Lord of the Sword

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 11:21 PM

LoPs Bro, on Sep 18 2005, 11:28 PM, said:

Let the questions begin!!!!! :)



Bro

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Becareful of what you wish for.  ;)

First things first. Welcome to the OT.

Now for the questions.

In the beginning GOD made ADAM and EVE, who had two children. Cain killed Able. Then they had more children. Who it says then went to the villages and towns and started their own families.

So my question is: Where did these other people come from?
"Sometimes you get the point of the sword, sometimes the edge, sometimes the flat of the blade (even if you're the Lord of the Sword) and sometimes you're the guy wielding it. But any day without the Sword or its Lord is one that could've been better  " ~Orpheus.

The Left is inclusive, and tolerant, unless you happen to think and believe different than they do~ Lord of the Sword

Looks like the Liberal Elite of Exisle have finally managed to silence the last remaining Conservative voice on the board.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” ~Thomas Jefferson

#16 MuseZack

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 11:47 PM

LoPs Bro, on Sep 20 2005, 04:15 AM, said:

deMona, on Sep 19 2005, 08:54 PM, said:

CoyoteUgly, on Sep 19 2005, 02:00 AM, said:

Since salvation is made available to all humankind, and obviously humans have lived and died since the time of Christ who have not heard the Gospel, what avenue of salvation from Hell do these individuals have?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



the catholic chuch teaches this:

Quote

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

- ccc 847

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Unfortunately that is not what the Bible, and Jesus teach. Thanks for your imput.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hold on there, pardner.  It's not like there aren't Biblical passages that support a broader and less legalistic (for lack of a better term) definition of who gets into heaven-- one based as much on intention as on doctrinal obedience.  

"For it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the Law do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law. They show that what the Law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus."-- Romans 2:13-16

And  

"Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God" -- 1 Corinthians 4:5

Now, you may not believe this particular line of reasoning, but it's not like the Church manufactured it from whole cloth.  

A Franciscan priest explains the Catholic perspective a heck of a lot more eloquently than I could here:

http://www.americanc...999/wiseman.asp
"Some day, after we have mastered the wind, the waves, the tides, and gravity,
We shall harness for God the energies of Love.
Then, for the second time in the history of the world,
we will have discovered fire."
--Father Pierre Teilhard de Chardin

#17 Jid

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Posted 19 September 2005 - 11:58 PM

I have a question, not about the bible per se, as your approach to it.

Do you approach the bible as a set of documents written after being inspired by God, or do you view it as the word of God itself?
cervisiam tene rem specta

#18 LoPs Bro

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 12:01 AM

Jid, on Sep 19 2005, 09:58 PM, said:

I have a question, not about the bible per se, as your approach to it.

Do you approach the bible as a set of documents written after being inspired by God, or do you view it as the word of God itself?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



As the Word of God itself written by men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Men wrote down what God told them to write.

#19 LoPs Bro

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 12:34 AM

MuseZack, on Sep 19 2005, 09:47 PM, said:

LoPs Bro, on Sep 20 2005, 04:15 AM, said:

deMona, on Sep 19 2005, 08:54 PM, said:

CoyoteUgly, on Sep 19 2005, 02:00 AM, said:

Since salvation is made available to all humankind, and obviously humans have lived and died since the time of Christ who have not heard the Gospel, what avenue of salvation from Hell do these individuals have?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



the catholic chuch teaches this:

Quote

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.

- ccc 847

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Unfortunately that is not what the Bible, and Jesus teach. Thanks for your imput.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Hold on there, pardner.  It's not like there aren't Biblical passages that support a broader and less legalistic (for lack of a better term) definition of who gets into heaven-- one based as much on intention as on doctrinal obedience.  

"For it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law who will be justified. When Gentiles who have not the Law do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the Law. They show that what the Law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus."-- Romans 2:13-16

And  

"Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then every man will receive his commendation from God" -- 1 Corinthians 4:5

Now, you may not believe this particular line of reasoning, but it's not like the Church manufactured it from whole cloth.  

A Franciscan priest explains the Catholic perspective a heck of a lot more eloquently than I could here:

http://www.americanc...999/wiseman.asp

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



Your scripture reference in Romans Paul was talking to the Jews who had the lawof Moses and were boasting about it. "We're a light to those in darkness and a guide to the blind" They stood as the moral and spiritual teachesr of the world.  But paul said, "Wait a minute! You teach that a man should not steal, but do you covet your neighbors goods? You teach that a man shouldn't commit adultry, but do you think about it yourself?"
Paul was pointing out the true intent of the law as Jesus did that it is to judge and govern the attitudes of men more than their actions.  By applying the law only to actions the scribes felt very self-righteous. The law's true purpose is to make the whole world guilty before God and drive people to the grace of God in jesus christ.
The scripture in 1: Corinthians is actually teaching about judgement not being a prerogative of man. If I came across as judging the Catholic Church I apologize as that was not my intent. i was just merely stating that what was written about them shouldn't really be accepted as church doctrine. For something to be accepted as church doctrine it really must follow these criteria: 1) did Jesus teach it, 2) was it practiced in the Book of Acts and 3) Was it taught in the epistles?  One must be careful not to take scripture out of context and twist it to fit their beliefs. They need to make their beliefs fit the scriptures. I'm not condemning the Catholic Church for what they believe, they probably think that alot of what protestants, baptists, etc. believe are scripturally flawed. I am just trying to point out what the Bible actuallt says about each subject.
Thanks. I hope this shows you where I am coming from.

#20 LoPs Bro

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Posted 20 September 2005 - 12:45 AM

LORD of the SWORD, on Sep 19 2005, 09:21 PM, said:

LoPs Bro, on Sep 18 2005, 11:28 PM, said:

Let the questions begin!!!!! :)



Bro

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Becareful of what you wish for.  ;)

First things first. Welcome to the OT.

Now for the questions.

In the beginning GOD made ADAM and EVE, who had two children. Cain killed Able. Then they had more children. Who it says then went to the villages and towns and started their own families.

So my question is: Where did these other people come from?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


That is a question I have often asked myself. Let me check it out and I'll get back to you. I do know that most of the theories will be only speculation as God only deals with the family line leading up to Jesus Christ within the Olt testament. Also thanks for the welcome.



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