Jump to content


Getting an "Insecure Connection" warning for Exisle? No worry

Details in this thread

Abu Ghraib abuse photos must be shown

Iraq Abu Ghraib Photos ACLU

  • Please log in to reply
49 replies to this topic

#41 DWF

DWF

    Dr. Who 1963-89, 1996, 2005-

  • Islander
  • 48,287 posts

Posted 03 October 2005 - 06:19 AM

They might have to be shown but paraded on every news and media outlet as the latest scoop for weeks to come, the first set was bad enough to see endlessly repeated.  :glare:
The longest-running science fiction series: decadent, degenerate and rotten to the core. Power-mad conspirators, Daleks, Sontarans... Cybermen! They're still in the nursery compared to us. Fifty years of absolute fandom. That's what it takes to be really critical.

"Don't mistake a few fans bitching on the Internet for any kind of trend." - Keith R.A. DeCandido

#42 Rhea

Rhea

  • Islander
  • 16,433 posts

Posted 03 October 2005 - 02:59 PM

Gefiltefishmon, on Oct 2 2005, 12:02 AM, said:

LORD of the SWORD, on Sep 30 2005, 08:06 PM, said:

Rumor is far different then fact. Publishing these photos clothes those rumors in fact. Those who hadn't considered taking up arms against our soldiers now will. Yep, this Judge certainly did the American soldiers that fight to protect his freedom a service. He just made it open season on them.


I keep hearing this - or a similar statement -

Quote

American soldiers that fight to protect his freedom
and I would like a little clarification.

How, EXACTLY is the war in Iraq "Protecting our Freedom"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


If you get that one figured out, let me know. Besides, this horse is a year out of the barn. We could hardly have a worse reputation than we've already incurred in Iraq.  :eek4:
The future is better than the past. Despite the crepehangers, romanticists, and anti-intellectuals, the world steadily grows better because the human mind, applying itself to environment, makes it better. With hands...with tools...with horse sense and science and engineering.
- Robert A. Heinlein

When I don’t understand, I have an unbearable itch to know why. - RAH


Everything is theoretically impossible, until it is done. One could write a history of science in reverse by assembling the solemn pronouncements of highest authority about what could not be done and could never happen.  - RAH

#43 BklnScott

BklnScott

    FKA ScottEVill

  • Islander
  • 18,142 posts

Posted 03 October 2005 - 03:05 PM

Lord of the Sword said:

Releasing those photos will only SERVE TERRORIST AGENDAS!

And whose agenda did the acts caught on film serve?  Way to blame the messenger, dude.

Quote

There isn't enough mommy in the world to further a cause like yours!

#44 Anarch

Anarch
  • Islander
  • 1,136 posts

Posted 03 October 2005 - 05:00 PM

Rhea, on Oct 3 2005, 07:59 PM, said:

If you get that one figured out, let me know. Besides, this horse is a year out of the barn. We could hardly have a worse reputation than we've already incurred in Iraq.  :eek4:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


No-one ever seems to credit it but it's true: things can always get worse.

#45 Douglas

Douglas
  • Islander
  • 424 posts

Posted 03 October 2005 - 06:13 PM

LORD of the SWORD, on Oct 1 2005, 06:08 PM, said:

You didn't use that word, but IMO what you described was viglantism. Unless you're saying that the government tried to use National Security to cover up, or excuse that murder?

I think we are coming at this from different angles; you are focusing on the government policy aspect and that's fine; a quick look at government policy in Canada reveals plenty.  The Canadian Government was complicit in the torture in Syria of Maher Arar, and many others.  The Canadian Security Agencies were complicit in the imprisonment and torture in Syria and Egypt of Ahmed El Maati; the basis for their case was a map that turned out to be one publically distributed by the Federal Government of Canada.  You should hear how loudly they are squeeling "national security" now that the facts are starting to come out.

But I expect that.  Soldiers have an acknowledged tendancy to want to look after each other; there is an old cliche that says that "A soldier fights for the man on his right and the man on his left."  Politicians tend to have an instinct to cover their own tush.  So while I am always peasantly surprised when someone puts right and wrong first I am not at all shocked when someone in either institution takes part in a cover-up.

What scares me is the willingness of the average citizen to accept this kind of behavior, even to defend it.  I mean, we are talking about the rape and sadistic torture of children!  I would think that even if we were divided on all other issues, this would be one that we could come together on.  I am terrified by the possibility that my fellow citizens of Canada, and our cousins down in the states, have become so docile that we accept whatever we are fed by those in power.  It's not politics I'm worried about politics so much, I am worried about this culture where we accept and excuse the victimization of the weak so readily.  Governments come and go, but attitudes like this have a way of getting entrenched.

I made a mistake quibbling over the definition of a Vigilante.  I don't consider the KKK or similar groups to be vigilantes, I tend to reserve that title for those who make the effort to target actual criminals, even if they make frequent mistakes.  However since I don't have a dictionary handy I'll concede the point.

Edited by Douglas, 03 October 2005 - 09:14 PM.


#46 CJ AEGIS

CJ AEGIS

    Warship Guru!

  • Islander
  • 6,847 posts

Posted 04 October 2005 - 02:51 PM

Moderator’s Helmet On!
Per Article 5 Section 1* of the “Orbis Terrarum Moderator Policies and Procedures” discussions about any type of staff action should be addressed via PM or in AQG.  For this reason all posts on the matter are being moved to AQG.  Please post your concerns there and avoid posting them in OT.  Thanks.    

Now for the mandatory
Whoooosssshhhhhhhhh!

Moderator’s Helmet Off!

*

Quote

1) If you have any questions, comments or concerns about staff actions in OT, please address them via PM with the OT staff, board administrators or discuss it in AQG. But please keep moderation related concerns out of the OT threads themselves.

"History has proven too often and too recently that the nation which relaxes its defenses invites attack."
        -Fleet Admiral Nimitz
"Their sailors say they should have flight pay and sub pay both -- they're in the air half the time, under the water the other half""
        - Ernie Pyle: Aboard a DE

#47 Nonprofit

Nonprofit
  • Islander
  • 2,163 posts

Posted 04 October 2005 - 03:20 PM

Quote

CJ AEGIS Posted Yesterday, 12:55 AM
  Moderator's Helmet On!

Message Sent in this method due to PM System being turned off for poster
RuReddy,

You are being warned for the following post and comments:
Abu Ghraib abuse photos must be shown

QUOTE
I bet you can't wait for the video tape of another young guy like Nick Berg who had his head slowly sawed off because of the last round of torture pictures released or perhaps they will scoop up a woman this time for more effect, higher scream level. Something


QUOTE
Anything more you would like to see done to hurt the folks in our military and those from other countries?

You are being officially warned for a violation of Section 1A of the Ex Isle Guidelines. If you want further information on the Guidelines and how we apply them we suggest that you check the Ex Isle Guidelines and the Orbis Terrarum Moderator Policies and Procedures.


QUOTE
1A. Healthy disagreement is welcome, as long as criticisms are focused on the ideas being expressed rather than on the people expressing them. Responding to other posters with insulting, dismissive or deliberately disruptive comments violates this spirit. Therefore, posters who make such comments may be required to edit them. A poster who persists in making such comments may be warned, and may face suspension from the forum where the behavior occurs, or further penalties depending on the persistence and/or severity of the behavior.


As stated in the Forum Charter for Orbis Terrarum this is ultimately a discussion forum for politics, history, and current events. The environment should allow questions, answers, and discussions to flourish. The thread was tense enough as it stands prior to your comment and your violation did not help at all.

If a fellow user's opinions annoy you, then we suggest that you take the higher road and not respond to them or you should directly address the topic at hand. If they are violation of the guidelines with their post then contact one of the OT Moderators and we will deal with it. Insults or snide comments directed at your fellow posters are violations of 1A and that type of behavior will not be tolerated. This warning is being delivered in this manner due to the fact that your private message system is turned off. In the future if you wish to receive messages from the moderating staff in a more private manner from this time on you should turn your PM system back on.

If anyone has any questions or comments on this warning it should be directed to AQG and not posted in this thread.

Thanks for your time,
~CJ AEGIS
Moderator's Helmet Off!

Dear Mr Moderator,

I've acknowledge your post above,  post # 40 so please lets also

Quote

Whoooosssshhhhhhhhh!

Your post right out of this thread also. I feel it should not remain without my response to it.

Thank you for your valuable time.

RuReddy

#48 Zwolf

Zwolf
  • Islander
  • 3,683 posts

Posted 06 October 2005 - 10:26 AM

Speaking of abuse, the senate just overwhelmingly voted to impose restrictions on prisoner treatment - 90 to 9, against Bush's wishes.  I'm glad somebody stepped up and did the right, American thing, since our president has failed to do so, despite all of his talk of "values."

McCain delivered an especially good speech, which I'll paste in here, as it bears repeating.

Quote

Mr. President, war is an awful business. I know that. I don’t think I’m naďve about how severe are the wages of war, and how terrible are the things that must be done to wage it successfully. It is a grim, dark business, and no matter how noble the cause for which it is fought, no matter how valiant the service, many veterans spend much of their subsequent lives trying to forget not only what was done to them and their comrades, but some of what had to be done by their hand to prevail.

I don’t mourn the loss of any terrorist’s life nor do I care if in the course of serving their ignoble cause they suffer great harm. They have pledged their lives to the intentional destruction of innocent lives, and they have earned their terrible punishment in this life and the next.

What I do regret, what I do mourn, and what I do care very much about is what we lose, what we -- the American serviceman and woman and the great nation they defend at the risk of their lives – what we lose when by official policy or by official negligence – we allow, confuse or encourage our soldiers to forget that best sense of ourselves, our greatest strength – that we are different and better than our enemies; that we fight for an idea – not a tribe, not a land, not a king, not a twisted interpretation of an ancient religion – but for an idea that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with inalienable rights.

I have been asked before where did the brave men I was privileged to serve with in Vietnam draw the strength to resist to the best of their ability the cruelties inflicted on them by our enemies. Well, we drew strength from our faith in each other, from our faith in God, and from our faith in our country. Our enemies didn’t adhere to the Geneva Convention. Many of my comrades were subjected to very cruel, very inhumane and degrading treatment, a few of them even unto death. But everyone of us knew, every single one of us knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies, that we were better than them, that we, if the roles were reversed, would not disgrace ourselves by committing or countenancing such mistreatment of them. That faith was indispensable not only to our survival, but to our attempts to return home with honor. Many of the men I served with would have preferred death to such dishonor.

The enemies we fight today hold such liberal notions in contempt, as they hold the international conventions that enshrine them such as the Geneva Conventions and the treaty on torture in contempt. I know that. But we’re better than them, and we are the stronger for our faith. And we will prevail. I submit to my colleagues that it is indispensable to our success in this war that our servicemen and women know that in the discharge of their dangerous responsibilities to their country they are never expected to forget that they are Americans, the valiant defenders of a sacred idea of how nations should govern their own affairs and their relations with others – even our enemies.

Those who return to us and those who give their lives for us are entitled to that honor. And those of us who have given them this onerous duty are obliged by our history, and by the sacrifices – the many terrible sacrifices -- that have been made in our defense – we are obliged to make clear to them that they need not risk their or their country’s honor to prevail; that they are always, always – through the violence, chaos and heartache of war, through deprivation and cruelty and loss – they are always, always Americans, and different, better, and stronger than those who would destroy us.

God bless them as he has blessed us with their service.

Cheers,

Zwolf
"I've moved on and I'm feeling fine
And I'll feel even better
When your life has nothing to do with mine."
-Pittbull, "No Love Lost"

"There are things that I'd like to say
But I'm never talking to you again
There's things I'd like to phrase some way
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'd put you down where you belong
But I'm never talking to you again
I'd show you everywhere you're wrong
But I'm never talking to you again

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you

I'm never talking to you again
I'm never talking to you
I'm tired of wasting all my time
Trying to talk to you."
- Husker Du, "Never Talking To You Again"

#49 Nonny

Nonny

    Scourge of Pretentious Bad Latin

  • Islander
  • 31,142 posts

Posted 06 October 2005 - 11:01 AM

Thanks for posting Senator McCain's excellent speech, Z.  These excerpts alone prove to me that he would have made a superiour Commander-in-Chief.  

Quote

Mr. President, war is an awful business. I know that. I don’t think I’m naďve about how severe are the wages of war, and how terrible are the things that must be done to wage it successfully. It is a grim, dark business, and no matter how noble the cause for which it is fought, no matter how valiant the service, many veterans spend much of their subsequent lives trying to forget not only what was done to them and their comrades, but some of what had to be done by their hand to prevail.

Quote

Those who return to us and those who give their lives for us are entitled to that honor. And those of us who have given them this onerous duty are obliged by our history, and by the sacrifices – the many terrible sacrifices -- that have been made in our defense – we are obliged to make clear to them that they need not risk their or their country’s honor to prevail; that they are always, always – through the violence, chaos and heartache of war, through deprivation and cruelty and loss – they are always, always Americans, and different, better, and stronger than those who would destroy us.

Nonny
Posted Image


The once and future Nonny

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Can anyone tell me who I am quoting?  I found this with no attribution.

Fatal miscarriages are forever.

Stupid is stupid, this I believe. And ignorance is the worst kind of stupid, since ignorance is a choice.  Suzanne Brockmann

All things must be examined, debated, investigated without exception and without regard for anyone's feelings. Diderot

#50 G1223

G1223

    The Blunt Object.

  • Dead account
  • 16,164 posts

Posted 06 October 2005 - 11:17 AM

What is the uniform of the terrorist? What markings does he wear to define him from civilians?  What does the Convention allow to be done to those found to be out of uniform or not wearing any means of ID'ing them from civilians?


I almost think we need to form our own international terrorist organization. imagine the change in behavior if the Iran Embassy shoots skyward. Maybe the beheading of the head of a islamic charity that is being investigated.
If you encounter any Trolls. You really must not forget them.
And if you want to save these shores. For Pity sake Don't Trust them.
paraphrased from H. "Breaker" Morant

TANSTAAFL
If you voted for Obama then all the mistakes he makes are your fault and I will point this out to you every time he does mess up.

When the fall is all that remains. It matters a great deal.

All hail the clich's all emcompassing shadow.

My playing well with other's skill has been vastly overrated

Member of the Order of the Knigths of the Woeful Countance.



Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Iraq, Abu Ghraib, Photos, ACLU

0 user(s) are browsing this forum

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users